Plug n plays running amuk

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
Ano
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Ano » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:22 pm

Elderberry wrote:
Ano wrote:Just to cover my bases, in case anyone reads this whole thread, the opinions expressed by me at the beginning, on a scale of 1-10, were totally fucking stupid. I'm a dumbfuck. I apologize.


Oh great, now I'm going to have to go back and find out exactly what you're apologizing for.


I defended Caravancicle. I had an extended amount of interaction with (a now named) person who was responsible for helping run the camp. At the time, I felt like it was not necessarily a harmful/negative thing, and I came to the defense of PnP. With all of the recent information that has come out in the past few months, I have to say that despite my extensive (and enlightening) conversations, I feel like these style of camps are far more harmful than they are beneficial to the grand scheme of things.

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Roberto Dobbisano
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:41 am

.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Jackass
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Jackass » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:09 am

Marco Cochrane SAN FRANCISCO, CA

· about 2 hours ago



I want the org to seriously look at this. It is against the principals. We as artists are not allowed to use photos of our work in any way that makes money. But these camps are allowed to make money off viewing our work. I think the principals are important to the integrity of the event
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:56 am

that is good news.

the tide is turning.
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Aurelia
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Aurelia » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:30 am

Yes but it does take vigilant ongoing effort you see because

I am a pussy

xoA.

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lucky420
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby lucky420 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:50 am

Jackass wrote:
Marco Cochrane SAN FRANCISCO, CA

· about 2 hours ago



I want the org to seriously look at this. It is against the principals. We as artists are not allowed to use photos of our work in any way that makes money. But these camps are allowed to make money off viewing our work. I think the principals are important to the integrity of the event



This
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Aurelia
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Aurelia » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:53 am

Yes Of course !

How can we help

xoA.

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Sandstorm
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Sandstorm » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:49 pm

Jackass wrote:
Marco Cochrane SAN FRANCISCO, CA

· about 2 hours ago



I want the org to seriously look at this. It is against the principals. We as artists are not allowed to use photos of our work in any way that makes money. But these camps are allowed to make money off viewing our work. I think the principals are important to the integrity of the event


Jackass: Where was that post made? Thanks.

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Jackass
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Jackass » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:05 pm

Straight from the horse's mouth.
I wouldn't put someone's name on something they didn't say. I was kind of leary about posting it but then I figured he put his name to it on an open website, so what the hell...
You can find it here.

There's a name some of you have heard before... it carries a bit more weight than Burner Bob
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token

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Sandstorm
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Sandstorm » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:19 pm

Thanks for the link. For some unknown reason my browser's not being happy when I try to scroll down through the comments that people made on that petition.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby FIGJAM » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:41 am

Image
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Jackass » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:01 am

“We’ve put our hand out to the turnkey camps and asked them to live by the principles. We can’t force them. But we asked, and I think they understand,” said Burning Man co-founder Will Rogers, who sat in a folding chair by his RV, a tattered bandana around his head. “After the first dust storm, we’re all the same color.


FAIL
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:22 am

Frida Be You & Me

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theCryptofishist
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:58 am

You know it's bad when you start bringing out your Dylan quotations:
You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns, when they all did tricks for you. Never understood that it aint no good, you shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Colonel Monk
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Colonel Monk » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:01 am

Lonesomebri wrote:
Burning Man is now listed as an official Bucket List life event, so the type of person who has to see the Taj Mahal, yet if you ask them about their interest in India, would reply “…India…?”, has to attend. They care nothing about the event, but they must check that box. There is no end to Ravers and festival attendees and Bucket Listers. The media and popular culture has made burning Man very well advertised.

There are limited tickets now. This past couple years even some of the most connected individuals had to make alittle scramble in uncertainty getting tickets.

How can a plug and play business guarantee tickets for both its clients and the help? Without that guarantee of an allotment of ticket, there would be no way to organize and pull off the business run Plug and Play. Just ask the Theme Camps about their direct target sales tickets. They need some insurance that their core people will attend, so what must a business cutting contracts with clients do to insure they get enough tickets? How can the for-profit Plug and Play be sure of having the tickets needed without buying third market tickets and driving up the prices? They can't.

Did those camps, and Will Smith and Grover Norquist buy in the direct sales, did they register for STEP? Ha, if you believe that, you’ll believe Travolta was out pounding rebar for his camp. In other words, in order to run their business catering to the wealthy and famous, we all know that with today’s limited tickets, the Plug and Plays must support scalping. If they need tickets for servants or clients does any grown adult believe they don’t simply buy a ticket for whatever price regardless? How can they get that set-up out on 9 and L running on day one without Early Arrival? Who is out there marking and reserving their space before gate?

The whole thing reeks of payola and scalping. And then the cool burner thing to do is to turn a blind eye to it all, or worse, pretend the rot will achieve enlightenment.


I have read most of this thread and Bbadgers.... They both have lots of valid points. Yes, some of it is whining. Some of it is the truth. Some of it is "whiny truth" But a good discussion by people that are obviously very concerned for this event they care so much about. Far as I'm concerned, I could give a rats ass that they have more money than me, I am not jealous of that in the least. Except that their money and connects are getting them the tickets that have seemed so elusive for me and others the past 5 years....

Yes, the ticketing is the number 1 issue for me these days regarding PnP camps and "bucketlisters" in general.....

I'm sure that there' s probably folks on this board that are in the same predicament I've found myself in since 2011 when the tickets first sold out. Right, there's not enough ticket supply anymore to keep up with demand. So, in the past 5 years, I've only been able to buy ONE ticket in the general sale. And this is doing everything right, being registered, being in line ready to click BUY exactly when they go on sale, etc. And despite this, I haven't been able to buy one. Was gifted a ticket by a close friend and volunteer, and was able to buy a few at the last minute secondhand, and last year I ended up not going - just could not make it happen without a ticket in hand now that I live 2500 miles away instead of 450.

It's easy to simplify this, it's nobody's fault, get used to it, demand has overtaken supply..... Quit crying about it..... But seriously, I feel that although we do have our "radical inclusion" principles, it feels more and more to me like the event has "jumped the shark" as others have pointed out..... Because we have not put on any brakes whatsoever, to activities that would eat up more tickets than the experience that it's providing to the community in general.

The event has been over-hyped by media, social media..... People taking and producing singalong video to music, etc etc..... Facebookin', tweetin'.... Y'all just had to go out there and brag about how cool you are dintcha? ......and share publicly, pictures and video that I thought was not supposed to be "public" and just a few years later, the event is too big for it's britches, and the bucketlisters want to come and watch what us crazy burners will do next. So they can brag about it to their friends at the next high society cocktail party.

The first year I went to burning man I'm not even sure you could have found a single thing on youtube, or really even google unless you purposely knew what you were looking for. Now, you can come across it accidentally without even looking.

My friends that introduced me to Burning Man - well I had known them for several months, the husband and I worked together. They never once brought up the event, or said "you should go, you should go". They were protective of it. I began asking them questions about their pictures, and the volunteering they did there... They were happy to oblige, but never offered more information than was necessary to answer my question. A little while later, they offered me a ticket to come for the first year. They sensed that I would "get it" (that's the vernacular that we seem to be using here) but still, oddly enough, they didn't really tell me a damn thing about it, except that they wanted me to read and understand the ten principles, and watch and learn. In a sense, it was the "it means different things to different people" and they wanted me to figure that part out for myself. They did not want to HYPE it to convince me to go. It reminds me of an underground music theater I've been to, their motto is "Don't be an asshole, and DON'T BRING ONE".... And if you do bring one, your membership is REVOKED. No, it's not radical inclusion.

Obviously, I love it, and it has become a big part of my life. Last year would have been my 10th consecutive burn and it was a heartbreak not to be able to go.

My point to that story, is that there was a vibe I got from my friends that I have also tried to maintain "the first thing about Burning Man is that you do not talk about Burning Man". And while I'm also little bit of a hypocrite for saying that here on eplaya, we are among friends here and I seriously doubt that this post will go viral, compelling thousands to attempt to buy tickets next year. What I hope it will do, is make us all think a little about posting on social media about the event.

It's a special thing, and in my opinion the publicity has created the supply problem that has some of us scrambling for tickets. Part of supply and demand is PRICING, but you can't control the amount of folks that will come only once to put their check on the bucketlist. The cost of a ticket will not stop the "one-timer" from coming.

Sorry, rambling and not in a straight line, either. What this has to do with the discussion of PnP, is that the advertising of a "B man experience" is just that many more tickets that aren't available to people like you and me. Whether it's supporting/driving the scalping activity, or causing these entities to "game the system" by having employees secure tickets for tourists, the bottom line is that I can't support any activity that makes it more difficult for me to buy a ticket.

If this seems selfish to you, you're right!!!! it is. Once I get my effing ticket, you can see how selfish I'm actually not by the rides I'll give you on my intergallactic trickshaw, the tri tip I cook daily, the 10 pounds of bacon and 100 lbs of french fries I cook, right on the playa. But to see a bunch of bucketlisters getting tickets, and tickets for their servants, and all in the name of the almighty dollar in the default world really is sucking, and it's making me rethink the event as a major part of my life.

I want to go every year, I'm dedicated to it. But I'm getting weary of these changes we're seeing. Sure, you can plan like you're going even when you don't have a ticket, and hope that you get one, but it's not the same as actually HAVING a ticket, and going the extra mile KNOWING that you'll get thru the blazing gates.

Please, before y'all flame me too bad, do YOU have a ticket? If you do, either by volunteering or by being part of a theme camp, you may not understand where I'm coming from. Oddly enough, my network of Burning Man friends are all volunteers and they simply do not understand what it's like to be in this perpetual limbo of fighting for a ticket year after year. I have volunteered, just not officially. I have tried to join a volunteer group on playa that has become increasingly choosy. Anyways...

I feel that the inclusion of the PnP is doing more harm on playa than good. I don't think it's a good direction for the event. I think this is evidenced by the experiences that we're all having. Exclusive Camps, MOOP, now vehicle passes, ticket shortages, more and more a lack of art - I know "it was better last year" but damned if that doesn't seem to be happening in some ways.

Fire away,

monk
dust.

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:33 am

well written and from the heart, why should we fire away?

the "lament" of old timers is real and palpable, and not something to be pooh poohed by the Burny come Latelys...


we know....we were there...we have something to gauge things by.


if you werent there, it's all hyperbole, guess work, estimation and wonder....

if you werent there, you dont know, so dont talk about it or make pithy proclamations about the nature of burning man and where it's going and where its been.

you werent there.

Monk was There....I was there...many on this Board were THERE...

WE REMEMBER, and no amount of public Relations and/or Mantra will erase that.

so show some RESPECT for us, and LISTEN to what we have to say.

Thank You Monk for telling your story, it IS important.

and Keep making the Journey, we need People who Remember.... it is our connection to the past, how burning man came to be.
Last edited by Simon of the Playa on Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:47 am

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:
[media]
Frida Be You & Me

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Aurelia
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Aurelia » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:08 am

Thank you Simon and Monk

I was there

I am still there

and we all will continue to respect and honor that it is possible, even in our advances , to find a there

xoA.

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lucky420
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby lucky420 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:13 am

Colonel Monk wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:
Burning Man is now listed as an official Bucket List life event, so the type of person who has to see the Taj Mahal, yet if you ask them about their interest in India, would reply “…India…?”, has to attend. They care nothing about the event, but they must check that box. There is no end to Ravers and festival attendees and Bucket Listers. The media and popular culture has made burning Man very well advertised.

There are limited tickets now. This past couple years even some of the most connected individuals had to make alittle scramble in uncertainty getting tickets.

How can a plug and play business guarantee tickets for both its clients and the help? Without that guarantee of an allotment of ticket, there would be no way to organize and pull off the business run Plug and Play. Just ask the Theme Camps about their direct target sales tickets. They need some insurance that their core people will attend, so what must a business cutting contracts with clients do to insure they get enough tickets? How can the for-profit Plug and Play be sure of having the tickets needed without buying third market tickets and driving up the prices? They can't.

Did those camps, and Will Smith and Grover Norquist buy in the direct sales, did they register for STEP? Ha, if you believe that, you’ll believe Travolta was out pounding rebar for his camp. In other words, in order to run their business catering to the wealthy and famous, we all know that with today’s limited tickets, the Plug and Plays must support scalping. If they need tickets for servants or clients does any grown adult believe they don’t simply buy a ticket for whatever price regardless? How can they get that set-up out on 9 and L running on day one without Early Arrival? Who is out there marking and reserving their space before gate?

The whole thing reeks of payola and scalping. And then the cool burner thing to do is to turn a blind eye to it all, or worse, pretend the rot will achieve enlightenment.


I have read most of this thread and Bbadgers.... They both have lots of valid points. Yes, some of it is whining. Some of it is the truth. Some of it is "whiny truth" But a good discussion by people that are obviously very concerned for this event they care so much about. Far as I'm concerned, I could give a rats ass that they have more money than me, I am not jealous of that in the least. Except that their money and connects are getting them the tickets that have seemed so elusive for me and others the past 5 years....

Yes, the ticketing is the number 1 issue for me these days regarding PnP camps and "bucketlisters" in general.....

I'm sure that there' s probably folks on this board that are in the same predicament I've found myself in since 2011 when the tickets first sold out. Right, there's not enough ticket supply anymore to keep up with demand. So, in the past 5 years, I've only been able to buy ONE ticket in the general sale. And this is doing everything right, being registered, being in line ready to click BUY exactly when they go on sale, etc. And despite this, I haven't been able to buy one. Was gifted a ticket by a close friend and volunteer, and was able to buy a few at the last minute secondhand, and last year I ended up not going - just could not make it happen without a ticket in hand now that I live 2500 miles away instead of 450.

It's easy to simplify this, it's nobody's fault, get used to it, demand has overtaken supply..... Quit crying about it..... But seriously, I feel that although we do have our "radical inclusion" principles, it feels more and more to me like the event has "jumped the shark" as others have pointed out..... Because we have not put on any brakes whatsoever, to activities that would eat up more tickets than the experience that it's providing to the community in general.

The event has been over-hyped by media, social media..... People taking and producing singalong video to music, etc etc..... Facebookin', tweetin'.... Y'all just had to go out there and brag about how cool you are dintcha? ......and share publicly, pictures and video that I thought was not supposed to be "public" and just a few years later, the event is too big for it's britches, and the bucketlisters want to come and watch what us crazy burners will do next. So they can brag about it to their friends at the next high society cocktail party.

The first year I went to burning man I'm not even sure you could have found a single thing on youtube, or really even google unless you purposely knew what you were looking for. Now, you can come across it accidentally without even looking.

My friends that introduced me to Burning Man - well I had known them for several months, the husband and I worked together. They never once brought up the event, or said "you should go, you should go". They were protective of it. I began asking them questions about their pictures, and the volunteering they did there... They were happy to oblige, but never offered more information than was necessary to answer my question. A little while later, they offered me a ticket to come for the first year. They sensed that I would "get it" (that's the vernacular that we seem to be using here) but still, oddly enough, they didn't really tell me a damn thing about it, except that they wanted me to read and understand the ten principles, and watch and learn. In a sense, it was the "it means different things to different people" and they wanted me to figure that part out for myself. They did not want to HYPE it to convince me to go. It reminds me of an underground music theater I've been to, their motto is "Don't be an asshole, and DON'T BRING ONE".... And if you do bring one, your membership is REVOKED. No, it's not radical inclusion.

Obviously, I love it, and it has become a big part of my life. Last year would have been my 10th consecutive burn and it was a heartbreak not to be able to go.

My point to that story, is that there was a vibe I got from my friends that I have also tried to maintain "the first thing about Burning Man is that you do not talk about Burning Man". And while I'm also little bit of a hypocrite for saying that here on eplaya, we are among friends here and I seriously doubt that this post will go viral, compelling thousands to attempt to buy tickets next year. What I hope it will do, is make us all think a little about posting on social media about the event.

It's a special thing, and in my opinion the publicity has created the supply problem that has some of us scrambling for tickets. Part of supply and demand is PRICING, but you can't control the amount of folks that will come only once to put their check on the bucketlist. The cost of a ticket will not stop the "one-timer" from coming.

Sorry, rambling and not in a straight line, either. What this has to do with the discussion of PnP, is that the advertising of a "B man experience" is just that many more tickets that aren't available to people like you and me. Whether it's supporting/driving the scalping activity, or causing these entities to "game the system" by having employees secure tickets for tourists, the bottom line is that I can't support any activity that makes it more difficult for me to buy a ticket.

If this seems selfish to you, you're right!!!! it is. Once I get my effing ticket, you can see how selfish I'm actually not by the rides I'll give you on my intergallactic trickshaw, the tri tip I cook daily, the 10 pounds of bacon and 100 lbs of french fries I cook, right on the playa. But to see a bunch of bucketlisters getting tickets, and tickets for their servants, and all in the name of the almighty dollar in the default world really is sucking, and it's making me rethink the event as a major part of my life.

I want to go every year, I'm dedicated to it. But I'm getting weary of these changes we're seeing. Sure, you can plan like you're going even when you don't have a ticket, and hope that you get one, but it's not the same as actually HAVING a ticket, and going the extra mile KNOWING that you'll get thru the blazing gates.

Please, before y'all flame me too bad, do YOU have a ticket? If you do, either by volunteering or by being part of a theme camp, you may not understand where I'm coming from. Oddly enough, my network of Burning Man friends are all volunteers and they simply do not understand what it's like to be in this perpetual limbo of fighting for a ticket year after year. I have volunteered, just not officially. I have tried to join a volunteer group on playa that has become increasingly choosy. Anyways...

I feel that the inclusion of the PnP is doing more harm on playa than good. I don't think it's a good direction for the event. I think this is evidenced by the experiences that we're all having. Exclusive Camps, MOOP, now vehicle passes, ticket shortages, more and more a lack of art - I know "it was better last year" but damned if that doesn't seem to be happening in some ways.

Fire away,

monk


A lot of times I just don't read long posts on the Internet. But this ^^, this has so much truth and heartfelt words I'm glad I did take the time to read it all. Thank you
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:14 am

everytime i smell the dust, it all comes screaming back.



i am always "there" even though i am "here"...



i guess "now" really is relative, isn't it.
Frida Be You & Me

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Aurelia
Posts: 2432
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Camp Name: the Love Camp
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Postby Aurelia » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:30 am

YES !

and we are here now

whatever

I do read Lucky and Simon
skim Lbri
read Follett who describes our time a bit differently from how I lived it

and walk on silver point shoes dancing through shit fearlessly

because I am a burner anyway

xoA.


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