Law Enforcement in 2105

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tamarakay
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by tamarakay » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:13 pm

I agree with sicpup. Bringing out the dogs is a bit excessive. Most especially the dogs these guys had. Soooooo many false indicators. How many people were forced to open mail a dog had alerted on and nothing was there? No citations or arrests from the postal invasion of privacy, yet numerous people had mail delivered by blm or Pershing county and all mail was sniffed. We aren't a fucking training environment. We are people who have rights and these assholes are getting way to comfy stepping all over them. They aren't stupid. They know we are leaving in a week, they know how much we have invested to be here, and they know we won't put up much of a fight. Just fill the coffers.
When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

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Corvus
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Corvus » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:49 am

reggie13 wrote:only had one run-in with LEOs....we were trying to find a Ranger (BM) to ask about grey water removal. Truck rolls by and all we could see was "RANGER" on the door so a campmate chased them down.

Campmate: *asks questions about grey water*
Ranger: We wouldn't know...we aren't "that kind of ranger". We're REAL RANGERS. (drives off in a cloud of dust)

Okie dokie, then!

later, as i was standing agape in mid-playa just taking in the vastness of everything, "that kind of Ranger" walked by me and said "wild, isn't it?" I just stuttered..."it's just.....huge!" he laughed and said "that, it is....." and walked off across playa. very nice intereaction for a (apparently obvious) newb.

I did have an issue with the "Real Rangers" and all there damn trucks from the Esplanade out into the playa. as if the dust storms and white outs aren't enough, i have to make sure i don't get hit by a LEO truck? thanks a bunch ya'll!
Black Rock Ranger vehicles can be identified by a large oval tan vinyl sticker on the door with the Ranger logo and "Black Rock" above, "Ranger" below. They can be any color or type of vehicle because they are either rented or someone's personal vehicle that's been pressed into service and the logo is peeled off post-event. "Real" rangers would be driving around in their agency's vehicle. IIRC BLM's trucks have the BLM logo and "RANGER" below it in big letters. Another tip off is that all LE vehicles have a letter and three digit number written large in temporary marker on the side window in the back. C123 for the Pershing deputies for example or K123 for a K-9 unit.

Mostly, though, you will find a BR Ranger on foot or a bike; it's more interactive.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Sham » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:39 am

tamarakay wrote:I agree with sicpup. Bringing out the dogs is a bit excessive. Most especially the dogs these guys had. Soooooo many false indicators. How many people were forced to open mail a dog had alerted on and nothing was there? No citations or arrests from the postal invasion of privacy, yet numerous people had mail delivered by blm or Pershing county and all mail was sniffed. We aren't a fucking training environment. We are people who have rights and these assholes are getting way too comfy stepping all over them. They aren't stupid. They know we are leaving in a week, they know how much we have invested to be here, and they know we won't put up much of a fight. Just fill the coffers.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Drawingablank » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:18 am

Sic Pup wrote:The reality is there are a lot of young people enthusiastic about living a dream and eager to start the party - I would like to think that all of the pull overs are due to carelessness and neglect and are a life lesson but I'm not so sure.
Some of the pull overs are simply self inflicted. I had several drivers come through on my greeter shift this year that appeared to be tripping.
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Ratty
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Ratty » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:19 am

You can tell the trippy ones by their green mohawk and matching tail.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Roy333 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:07 pm

Sham wrote:
Elderberry wrote:
Sham wrote:Last year, I (personally) overheard BLM officers at Earth Guardians say after the torrential rains, "we're gonna have a problem giving out tickets for water on the playa this year".
That is so fucked up. Same as cops in cities having "quotas" on tickets. :x
They deny that there are quotas and deny that the money gained is for their own budgets. I am getting a big education here.
Doesn't anyone even entertain the idea that this was meant as a joke?
Grow up

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Roy333 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:12 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:

I am not a laywer! and this is not legal advice, however it is wise to know your rights.
Do you have rights if you are breaking the law?

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Lonesomebri » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:19 pm

Roy333 wrote:
A-RockLeFrench wrote:

I am not a laywer! and this is not legal advice, however it is wise to know your rights.
Do you have rights if you are breaking the law?
Of course!!!! Funny thing that, even the accused and convicted have rights. Anyone acting otherwise is... breaking the law.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by ^Rhino! » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:14 pm

tamarakay wrote:I agree with sicpup. Bringing out the dogs is a bit excessive. Most especially the dogs these guys had. Soooooo many false indicators. How many people were forced to open mail a dog had alerted on and nothing was there? No citations or arrests from the postal invasion of privacy, yet numerous people had mail delivered by blm or Pershing county and all mail was sniffed. We aren't a fucking training environment. We are people who have rights and these assholes are getting way to comfy stepping all over them. They aren't stupid. They know we are leaving in a week, they know how much we have invested to be here, and they know we won't put up much of a fight. Just fill the coffers.
Indeed, the dogs are excessive.

I talked with someone from Opulent Temple about that last year, and gave him my tip for the 'expulsion of dogs'.....we use cayenne pepper around the camp perimeter. It also is useful inside of tents. very much a la "Cool Hand Luke".

Eventually Perhing County and the boys from Reno 911 will learn.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:46 pm

Early this summer the fed's ruled, You can only be held for the time it takes to write the ticket.. If your held for the dogs to arrive, It become unreasonable detention.. Then becomes unreasonable search.

kick open a fresh bag of dog food. those dogs are trained with food..
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by ^Rhino! » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:12 am

unjonharley wrote:Early this summer the fed's ruled, You can only be held for the time it takes to write the ticket.. If your held for the dogs to arrive, It become unreasonable detention.. Then becomes unreasonable search.

kick open a fresh bag of dog food. those dogs are trained with food..
Until you have the entire LEO population descend on you.

My friend Tom (now passed away, and for whom I memorialized at the Temple this year) had a unique run-in where that happened, and where the cops ended up looking at themselves differently.

Tom sold drilling fluid additives for a living. Not the oil well kind, but bentonite which is used to aid in the installation of underground utilities...fiber optic cables, sewer and water pipe, natural gas pipe, and other utility conveyances at shallow depth. He also sold it as a pond sealant (among many other potential uses---it's even used as a binding agent in most pharmaceutical products, and to remove sediment from wine and beer due to its unique properties).

Tom was in San Antonio to see a Mexican client who was supposed to come across the border from Cuidad Juarez. He carried all the normal samples of additives, all packed (and marked) in clear Ziploc-type bags. He was setting them out on the tailgate of his pickup truck, readying for a hoped-for sale, when it seemed that the entire LEO population of San Antonio descended upon him - a veritable alphabet soup of Federal agents...FBI, ATF, DEA, ICE as well as the San Antonio P.D. and the county sheriff's department. Their guns were drawn, and Tom was unarmed.

Tom was thrown up against his truck by two beefy Federal agents, handcuffed, and the questioning began.

"What are you doing here?"

"What's in the baggies?"

Tom (having nothing to hide) referred them to the Materials Safety Data Sheets kept in a notebook in his truck. Reason began to break out among the accumulated LEO throng, but Tom still wasn't uncuffed. Weapons were put on 'safe' or holstered. Drug-sniffing dogs were brought to the fore.

" Do you mind if we let the dogs sniff the baggies?"

Tom BRIEFLY protested. The LEOs turned ugly again, asking,

"What are you trying to hide?"

Bags were opened, and the dogs sniffed the contents of each one. The dogs didn't 'hit' on anything. Tom was uncuffed, and explained his presence. The LEOs were just about to leave when the drug-sniffing dogs came back. Phlegm was streaming from their noses! Horrors!

"What did you DO to our dogs?????"

It turned out that one of the drilling fluid additives that the dogs had sniffed was an emulsifier, and had caused the nasal distress for the animals. It would wear off in about an hour.

The whole scene could have been avoided if the LEOs had realized one simple fact: Tom was selling a whit powder to be taken back SOUTH over the Mexican border, not bringing it in NORTH of the border. The LEOs had thought he was rearranging bags of cocaine. Tom did end up making a sale later that day.

Thanks Tom, for teaching me rule #1 regarding Federal agents and dogs........'The dogs the Feds have are only as smart as their handlers." (or is it the other way around? :? )
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Sic Pup » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:31 am


Do you have rights if you are breaking the law?

Wait............whzt?
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Elderberry » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:58 am

Sic Pup wrote:

Do you have rights if you are breaking the law?

Wait............whzt?
Why yes, yes you do have rights. Can you say "Miranda"?
JK
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:29 am

Just talking to a long time burner friend on the verge of quitting. This year a dog jumped into their vehicle through an open window at exodus. Yes I am encouraging they file a LEO feedback form. No nothing was found. If something had been, that would be a very interesting court case.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Sham » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:13 pm

I was in a parade today with my artcar. The police of course were all over the place. It took me a while to get past the awkward feeling that an officer was going to come over and start questioning me about "anything" illegal in my car. I have my CVS pill container on my key chain with Advil in it. The BLM would be confiscating it and giving me a $500 ticket. Thank goodness we're not near any open public land and the BLM are no where to be found.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by CyanEssence » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:52 pm

I caught wind of an interesting story, though I can't vouch for its truth, nor do I know if it was this year.

A girl was tripping really hard, and the BLM picked her up and brought her to ESD. Medical checked her out, and she was physically fine, just really confused. The BLM cited her, giving her a piece of paper, which said she was to leave BRC, and not come back.

She went to her camp, and did not leave. The following day, she had some kind of allergic reaction or swelling of her tongue, and went back to ESD with someone she knew. During the visit, she showed someone at ESD the slip of paper (citation?) that said she needed to leave BRC and not return. The BLM ended up coming, saying she needed to leave BRC immediately, and that they were sending officers to her camp in order to search it.

Someone went back to the camp to inform others well before the officers arrived. The girl packed up her things, and was dropped at the Gate. She had to hitchhike back to Reno.

Truth or fiction, hard to say, as it was told to me by someone who heard it from the first person witness. If it is true, there is some cause for concern, as we have all probably read at least one of those stories about people who failed to go to a hospital because they were worried about the legal consequences of bringing an overdosing person in for help.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by tamarakay » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:23 pm

Doesn't ring true. Blm would not drop her off at gate. If they wanted her gone pretty sure she would have been carted off to Pershing county lockup.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by CyanEssence » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:48 pm

What made me wonder was the fact that no one in her camp offered to at least bring her to Reno. I suppose they could have all been away, drunk, or maybe she was an orphan who signed up with an established group (so no one felt invested in helping her).

You have me wondering now, what does happen when the BLM ejects someone from the event, they are not being arrested/detained, the person doesn't have their own transport, and no one is able/willing to drive them somewhere?

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Molotov » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:19 am

Only had one negative interaction with BLM and I filed a form on it with the BMOrg. I had an EA pass and was idling down (5 mph) L just off Gate Road on 8/24 around 1 PM when a white BLM pickup towing a flat bed trailer with [un]covered wagon (sans canvas) passed me going 15-25 mph and thoroughly dusted me and the other vehicles that were obeying the speed rules.

You know it makes it really hard to obey the rules when the feds feel that they don't apply to them.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Roundabout » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:27 pm

The_Sheik wrote:Only had one negative interaction with BLM and I filed a form on it with the BMOrg. I had an EA pass and was idling down (5 mph) L just off Gate Road on 8/24 around 1 PM when a white BLM pickup towing a flat bed trailer with [un]covered wagon (sans canvas) passed me going 15-25 mph and thoroughly dusted me and the other vehicles that were obeying the speed rules.

You know it makes it really hard to obey the rules when the feds feel that they don't apply to them.
I was told by a Placement "intern" that despite the posted speed limit signs, officially the speed limit was 15mph until sometime on Friday of build week. I did not try to test out this information, but it explained the numerous BLM vehicles I saw speeding and kicking up lots of dust during build week.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:09 pm

tamarakay wrote:Doesn't ring true. Blm would not drop her off at gate. If they wanted her gone pretty sure she would have been carted off to Pershing county lockup.
Yeah
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Sham » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:21 am

From Jackrabbit speaks:
Lawyers for Burners
If you got arrested or received a citation on playa, you don't have to go it alone. A grassroots volunteer organization called Lawyers For Burners may be able to help you with finding a lawyer or providing legal advice.
Visit their website for more information: http://www.lawyersforburners.com

On a personal note: I would highly recommend that if you feel you were ticketed unfairly, that you ABSOLUTELY should fight that ticket. If you feel you were illegally searched, you need to have a lawyer take a look at your situation. I hope you don't just write the check because you feel you are too far away to dispute an unreasonable ticket and fine.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by 666isMONEY » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:14 am

I came in early Sunday and told the Gate people that "cowboys" were going 35mph on Gate Road and I didn't see any speed limit signs.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by Sham » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:19 am

Sham wrote:From Jackrabbit speaks:
Lawyers for Burners
If you got arrested or received a citation on playa, you don't have to go it alone. A grassroots volunteer organization called Lawyers For Burners may be able to help you with finding a lawyer or providing legal advice.
Visit their website for more information: http://www.lawyersforburners.com

On a personal note: I would highly recommend that if you feel you were ticketed unfairly, that you ABSOLUTELY should fight that ticket. If you feel you were illegally searched, you need to have a lawyer take a look at your situation. I hope you don't just write the check because you feel you are too far away to dispute an unreasonable ticket and fine.
Just a quick reminder to anyone who feels they need some legal advice for issues that happened at BM this year......

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by TheJoker » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:29 pm

I witnessed one LEO interaction that seemed a little bit excessive.
It was Saturday (?) afternoon, just moments before the DPW flaming-piano-catapulting performance. One guy was fully naked, on his bike, not engaging in some erotic behavior. 4 cops came to him (Pershing county and BLM, I think) and started to talk to him. Some were even "establishing a perimeter", like preventing people to come close to the scene.

I was not near enough to hear the conversation but I guess his nakedness was the issue. I remember that he was standing just next to a very young kid (possibly his own ?), which was probably the cause of the interaction. This lasted at least 20 minutes. I'm not sure if he ended up with a ticket or not, but this seemed really disproportionate for someone just chilling naked on his bike.

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by pink » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:16 pm

There was an incident where LEOs forced a naked guy to clothe his also naked kid.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by CyanEssence » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:24 pm

pink wrote:There was an incident where LEOs forced a naked guy to clothe his also naked kid.
Just the kid had to get dressed?

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by maladroit » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:48 am

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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by FlyingMonkey » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:06 pm

This may not be the norm but my LEO interaction was pretty good. By the time we hit greeters on Sunday night it was getting dark. Since my speedo doesn't accurately display my speed that slow I had a GPS speedometer app on my phone & made sure I was at most going maybe 1-2 MPH over but usually right at the limit. Next thing I know there were flashing lights behind me. Having heard all the horror stories about unreasonable & aggressive LEO interactions I expected the worst. The officer (a female county sheriff deputy) told me I didn't have plates on my trailer & I had a running light out. I explained to her that my trailer was only rated for 3,000 Lbs & in WI we are not required to register or have plates on them unless they are more than that. She asked for my ID & said that she had to go back & check to make sure I didn't have any outstanding warrants or wasn't a serial killer. She was actually very nice & joking a little. When she came back she explained the safety concerns about not having all my trailer lights working & she let me get out to show me which light she was talking about. I thanked her, because I honestly didn't know it was out, & told her that obviously I couldn't fix it until I got back to civilization but would do so then. She told me to be safe & have a good time.

That was it. I was thinking to myself "Wow, did I just luck out & find the only cool cop on the Playa?"

Just my 2 cents worth. YMMV.
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Re: Law Enforcement in 2105

Post by remi » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:01 pm

There was a lady that stumbled into our camp that was so drunk, she was in trouble. She was super sick, couldn't speak, was throwing up everywhere. We couldn't get her to a safe place or even find out where she was camping, so we called rangers who had medics come by. At this time, we couldn't really communicate with her, but she was able to clearly state that she did not want to be helped by medics. Her health deteriorated and she wasn't doing anything to help the situation, so the medics came back and this time they ruled she was not healthy enough to make correct decisions regarding her health, so they had to restrain her and take her away against her wishes.

This, I believe was Friday afternoon at the Space Gnomes camp at 230 & E.
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