2015 turn key camps and self reliance

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--Ever--
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2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by --Ever-- » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:40 pm

Regarding the article, "Here's what the inside of a 'fancy celebrity camp' at Burning Man looks like": http://bit.ly/1QrQpek

Not trying to start a war. I'm honestly just not sure how a camp like this doesn't break radical self-reliance.

We were neighbors with them. Segways came and went. Showers looked like barracks. When they packed on Saturday we were able to see past the DMZ-esque walls and and noticed boxes and boxes for new LG air conditioner units. Not that AC's are bad - we have one in our yurt. Just a curious sight.

I know it's a dead-horse of an argument. But so long as I personally find the BM principles to be important, I'll be talking about them when I see them being observed and not observed.

In the end I don't care to go tit-for-tat about semantics, logic structure, devil's advocate and such. We all know it's hard to determine what is self reliance and what is not. But that's the nature of a principle, right? And principles were chosen because they're important. Right? So having an attitude of, "I dunno man, [enter devil's advocate statement here]" is kind of a pushover stance and definitely isn't said with the same drive as the people who create principles in the first place.

I personally believe the principles were created by people who had an idea of what self reliance is and what it is not. I think it's clear as day that camps like this land on the farthest end of the spectrum. It's not about having comfort or a slick camp, a chef, showers, AC and personal transport. It's about simply showing up and being chauffeured through the entire week. It's about relying on other people for virtually every single touch point. It's about being a camp being on the farthest end of the spectrum of a core principle.

Why do I care? For the same reason I like that food isn't sold. Burning Man filters an amazing group of people, and it's concerning when I see people blatantly skirting the principles. Even more so when I see nothing done about it beyond a news letter. Why do you care when people make noise at the temple? When someone kicks up dust with a leaf blower? We all hold things dear. And the ten principles are the consensus among the community.

What do I think should be done about it? Remove privileges if found to be in violation. Talk about it on a web forum. Know that it's the nature of the beast and that I can't do much about it. Feel a little less bad when we heckle them with our bullhorns. Because radical self-expression, right? :twisted:
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by maladroit » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:59 pm

The difficulty here is that you can't "break" a principle because it's not a rule.

My opinion is that if you want to be super comfortable and have the means to make that happen, go ahead. If you're so comfortable that you don't even care that you're excluding yourself from the community and are being laughed at, well...that's pretty darn comfortable.

It crosses the line for me when you sell that experience to others and have employees on the playa. Otherwise, what other people do doesn't bother me.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by --Ever-- » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:01 pm

maladroit wrote:The difficulty here is that you can't "break" a principle because it's not a rule.

My opinion is that if you want to be super comfortable and have the means to make that happen, go ahead. If you're so comfortable that you don't even care that you're excluding yourself from the community and are being laughed at, well...that's pretty darn comfortable.

It crosses the line for me when you sell that experience to others and have employees on the playa. Otherwise, what other people do doesn't bother me.
Very true. Good points all around. It's hard, or impossible, to enforce since a principle is more of a guideline. That helps.

That said, do we agree that camps like this "go against" the core principle?

And what if a camp costs money and has employees who set everything up? Is that terribly different than buying a burger from a food truck at Center Camp, or paying to see a DJ at Opulent Temple?
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:06 pm

Last year Jackass made a post on ePlaya. It had "I was here - alpha, o'clock, time, I observed this, and this is what I felt
". Pictures tell a story can be added. Many people felt similar and something happened.
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:40 pm

Just want to clarify that "Jackass" is an eplayan, not just "some jackass".
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:56 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Just want to clarify that "Jackass" is an eplayan, not just "some jackass".
Yes, at the very start of the Burn week last year, in 2014, Jackass and I had a little conversation out on L while looking at the boutique hotels spreading without any apparent control. Not sure at the time anyone had any real idea what was going on, the extent of any problem, what the problem is, or any solution. But I knew it bothered us. And that was a start.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by andy » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:42 pm

IMHO, we (ie. the larger Burner community) is spending too much time worrying about how a group of others Burn. Yes, we want participants, not tourists, but their numbers are much smaller than their press, and are unlikely to have a noticeable impact. I've always thought that these folks are getting half the experience for 10 times the money. MOST of my Burn happens BEFORE I set foot on the playa, a year of planning, building, and socializing with my campmates who have becomes great friends. Don't be jealous or angry at these turn-key campers - just Burn Right and Burn Bright.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by Ano » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:20 pm

I don't care how other people Burn, and to be truthful, if I had the money... hell yeah I'd have a massive $60,000 RV with slideouts, A/C, heating, shower, and a toilet. I'd probably also put a ton of money into my camp and build something fantastic to share with the community. I'd probably have one of those fat electric bikes or a segway, too. Some of the absolute coolest camps on playa have huge money behind them, and that isn't a problem. Money builds cool shit, and Burning Man is full of really expensive cool shit. Do you really think that projects just manifest themselves out there with the power of hippie juju? It's a lot of money and a lot of spare time.

The problem is the creeping turnkey culture that is slowly shifting the Burning Man experience away from "what can I contribute?" to roughly "who can I pay to make my life easier?" The following observations are anecdotal, but I'm willing to bet they would be backed up with numbers if someone took the time:

Every year, more and more posts show up on ePlaya, Reddit, or other Burner media that look along the lines of the following:

"Hey guys, X year dues paying burner looking for a camp with (amenities!) willing to work a shift or two for (amenities) but even better if I can pay for it!"

And every year, rightfully so, the greater community jumps on these folks and tells them, quite explicitly, that they are approaching the event in the wrong way. However... there are tons of camps that operate in this fashion, selling camping spots, showers, meal plans, and more to either drive a profit or break even on some project they are bringing to the playa.

Frankly, the project/camp that is featured above brought some absolutely cool shit. I visited their camp. They had a massive sealed and air-conditioned space that would blow your mind. It had a fountain with running water, a really generous bar, and quirky performances that were not EDM/dance music/rave related in the least bit. They were open more often than not, from what I could see. They didn't tell you to go away if you walked in, and in fact, the really beautiful people inside would even talk to you and tell you funny stories about their experiences, like "I saw a flaming didgeridoo powered by farts!" just like we all do.

My personal issue is that the event is veritably shifting towards paying people to deal with the tough stuff. I really doubt any of the beautiful people inside had anything to do with building the camp or planning an event or, well, anything. They lived in numbered tents built by someone else, they were flown in via the airport and picked up by an art car and given a private tour of the city, someone else dealt with their baggage, someone else gave them pre-fabricated costumes and their segways were waiting for them, fully charged up, and were maintained by someone else they never even saw. Essentially, these folks are giving up a part of the event to live in opulence witout realizing what they are missing. The slow drip of their culture is making its way to the masses and we're starting to see people convinced that they need to be in a camp with showers and food plans to even make it to the desert.

They are commodifying the culture we spend all year building and maintaining through regionals, meetups, meetings, drunken planning sessions, stoned dream sessions, and more. That's my problem.

And I've spent a long time trying to write this post so I'm not even sure if my original point is properly made... but I hope it makes some sense. Again, I don't care if you're turbo-rich and blow $23148912 on Burning Man. Good for you, that must be awesome. I care that there are these camps using tickets on day laborers to build a camp (I personally observed this), RV delivery guys who spend all Burn driving in to the event in a $60,000 RV and then flying back to Reno to deliver another (I personally observed this), and on people to MOOP and tend to the needs of people rather than going out and observing Burning Man (and as cool as the interior of that camp was, there were clearly people in there being paid to tend to needs). It's a complicated issue, though.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by maladroit » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:44 pm

We did this, though. I only started attending recently, and definitely "build my burn" in every way possible. I buy my own tickets in the main sale, I replace broken parts on my trailer and re-grease the bearings, I agonize over load ratings of rope, and manage a packing list of everything I bring down to the last toothpick.

But once you do all that, there's always that friend who wants to come and doesn't know where to begin. The girlfriend who likes the sexy outfits but has never cooked bacon on a Coleman stove, and hell...preparing for two people is almost as easy as one, and you'd sure like to see her wearing THAT in the dust. And maybe she'll pick up something from the experience, learn to love hammering rebar or something.

So you become a mule. One person can do 90% of the work for two or three campers, and still have enough time to enjoy the burn. But what happened...it was just people you knew, and you were happy to help them and share all of this, but you just created an experience for someone who doesn't really understand the work and planning. They leave the event oblivious, and next thing you know, word gets out: "I went to Burning Man and it was all a big party! Nothing bad happened and it was soooo much fun! You should come with us next year!"

Mules don't help spread Burning Man culture, they spread a distorted and civilized version of it by sheltering the very people they're (theoretically) trying to teach. Plug-n-play camps merely take this to extremes and are an easy target. But you're all doing this right now, unless you refuse to be a mule anymore, and force everyone in your camp to pull their own weight.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by --Ever-- » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:45 am

maladroit wrote:We did this, though. I only started attending recently, and definitely "build my burn" in every way possible. I buy my own tickets in the main sale, I replace broken parts on my trailer and re-grease the bearings, I agonize over load ratings of rope, and manage a packing list of everything I bring down to the last toothpick.

But once you do all that, there's always that friend who wants to come and doesn't know where to begin. The girlfriend who likes the sexy outfits but has never cooked bacon on a Coleman stove, and hell...preparing for two people is almost as easy as one, and you'd sure like to see her wearing THAT in the dust. And maybe she'll pick up something from the experience, learn to love hammering rebar or something.

So you become a mule. One person can do 90% of the work for two or three campers, and still have enough time to enjoy the burn. But what happened...it was just people you knew, and you were happy to help them and share all of this, but you just created an experience for someone who doesn't really understand the work and planning. They leave the event oblivious, and next thing you know, word gets out: "I went to Burning Man and it was all a big party! Nothing bad happened and it was soooo much fun! You should come with us next year!"

Mules don't help spread Burning Man culture, they spread a distorted and civilized version of it by sheltering the very people they're (theoretically) trying to teach. Plug-n-play camps merely take this to extremes and are an easy target. But you're all doing this right now, unless you refuse to be a mule anymore, and force everyone in your camp to pull their own weight.
Well put, thanks for sharing the story.

But again, as I said in the OP, I don't want to get into semantics, eg "we're all part of the problem if we've ever muled." Instead, I want to simply point out that there are groups out there who are clearly on the furthest end of the spectrum no matter how devil's advocate someone wants to get about it. And that's a great place to start when it comes to complicated issues like principles.
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:18 am

--Ever-- wrote:
maladroit wrote:But again, as I said in the OP, I don't want to get into semantics, eg "we're all part of the problem if we've ever muled." Instead, I want to simply point out that there are groups out there who are clearly on the furthest end of the spectrum no matter how devil's advocate someone wants to get about it. And that's a great place to start when it comes to complicated issues like principles.
I think a lot of people prefer to ignore unpleasantness and difficult complicated issues, and they turn that into a principle of sorts. The whole, I had a good Burn, nothing else matters, is a hard one for me to hold. Some of it is an internal avoidance of any conflict. Where else in life is that stance, if I had a good time nothing else matters, a positive thing? (Starving kids? I ain't a starving kid, no problem to me, it's all good.) Changes in the spirit of the event that makes it sell out and on everyone's goddamned "bucketlist" and DJ lineups being the main, and sometimes only,reason to attend, no problem as long as I got mine. The whole porta-potties reality... Heck, as long as I don't look in the hole, I don't care what someone else throws in because how does that effect me? This makes no sense at all. Even if you are having a good time, there are things that are issues you might be interested in. It does make it easy to just shrug shoulders and act like nothing is wrong or can/should be done.

And that's it, before even studying the issue, or thinking of it, or coming up with solutions.... we are supposed to not consider our own observations because other people/ourselves had a good burn.
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by Ano » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:46 pm

I'm totally against turnkey camping, for the record - but how do we define EXACTLY what is wrong and EXACTLY how to stop it?

Like maladroit aptly said, a lot of us participate in turnkey activities, to some extent. I am the nexus of my camp and build a majority of the infrastructure, and I've sponsored tickets for friends in the past with the instructions to get a tent, 14 cans of chili, and show up at our address after opening. I'm in no way a turnkey camp operator, but I sound awfully turnkey on paper.

Camps turning a profit? How are we going to gauge for that - because I sure as hell am not going to open up my finances/spreadsheets for a Maid Marion and Swordfish stamp of approval to put my shade down in BRC.

Camps providing tickets/food/shade for their participants? I'll be banned, and so will the lot of you, too. We all do this to an extent.

Vendor usage? Vendors have been operating for years, and frankly, this would knock out a ton of staff camps. Vendors are kind of important for BRC nowadays, especially with how massive it has gotten. I'd rather a vendor handle the potable water for massive camps than trust a crusty hippie to bring his totally clean well water that he sourced in a gigantic questionable tank. BRC Staff could not function without pumpouts and fresh commissary food.

Massive opulent camps that provide crazy services for their camp and the public? Goodbye, Ashram Galactica, an awesome participating camp of many years.

Massive opulent camps that provide absolutely nothing for the Playa? Okay - we already scrubbed this one. They now provide insane stuff for the public too. See the example in the OP.

Camps with paid employees? Whoops - you just knocked out a huge number of camps on the playa. *gasp!* You mean to say that even really awesome camps that provide complex things for the playa sometimes pay people to come out and help? 'Fraid so. And again, I don't think any of us want the Maid Marion/Swordfish stamp of "everything here is a gift" approval through camp planning.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like this shitty evil is here to stay, and it's up to us to make sure the clueless who pay $15,000 to stay in a pre-fabbed everything realize there's a better way to do it. Turnkey is something we can see and go, "That's not good," but unless we can come up with a cut-and-dry definition that applies 100% of the time and hurts no innocent camps, it's going to be here for awhile.

Just another mid-day-I'm-still-recovering-from-a-hellish-week-in-BRC-why-am-I-at-work-oh-god-there's-too-much-work rant.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by andy » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:11 pm

I think there are some cases where a form of turnkey camping can be justified, in particular for Burners who have to fly in from other overseas. It's not that some overseas Burners aren't self-sufficient, in fact we had a group in our village from Finland who actually brought and ran a sauna. But "radical inclusion" could arguably include leveling the playing field a bit.

The issue to me is non-participation. In particular, I cringe at the term "bucket list" regarding BM because if it's a bucket list item you have already missed the point - eating a gardenburger once is not "experiencing the vegetarian lifestyle".

BTW, I think the vendors who set up in Empire offering clothing, bikes, blinkies and everything else are as much of a self-reliance issue as the pay-to-play camps because they impact so many more people.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by maladroit » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:28 pm

andy wrote:we had a group in our village from Finland who actually brought and ran a sauna.
I just wanted to say "wow" because this was the perfect year to do that! And wishing I'd run across it some of those cold nights.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by DrYes » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:45 pm

Ano wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like this shitty evil is here to stay, and it's up to us to make sure the clueless who pay $15,000 to stay in a pre-fabbed everything realize there's a better way to do it. Turnkey is something we can see and go, "That's not good," but unless we can come up with a cut-and-dry definition that applies 100% of the time and hurts no innocent camps, it's going to be here for awhile.
It's not going anywhere precisely because nobody wants the Org diving into camp finances, as you say.

Reach out to people staying in those camps if you know them. Help break them out of their bubble.

I took two friends from a plug n' play camp out this year. Was their second day there on their first day at BM (they had arrived on Thursday...sigh). On leaving camp, we asked if they had water. They did not, because their $10k/week camp was out of water for the day and waiting for another delivery. Not a joke! They literally were out of water.

So we take them to our camp to fill them up with water. One of the guys is only carrying an 18 ounce handheld water container. We fill them up and they ask if the water is from our camp. They seemed surprised when we explained that no, we brought the water ourselves, for ourselves. When you fly in with a max 25 pounds of luggage, I guess the idea of bringing water is unexpected.

Then out we go, into Friday afternoon's epic duststorm (which I think they kind of enjoyed, as a novelty). They asked why people were lining up in front of a bar (to get drinks!). One crushed a can and asked where the garbage was. I was having a very hard time not railing against their camp, which had clearly put zero effort into preparing them or educating them at all.

I think by the end of the day with them they understood Burning Man a little better but the problem is that clueless birgins (and no offense to my two friends if they read this, but clueless they were) don't know what they don't know. It has to be up to the rest of us to try to teach them, to acculturate them, because nobody else is going to do it. The plug n' play camp operators sure aren't, generally speaking (I'm sure there are exceptions).

This is a non-violent fight about culture, with one side actively trying to preserve some sense of the culture and community, and the other side understands so little about our event that it's not even aware there's a fight going on.

All we can do is try to rope them into falling in love with what we build, and maybe the ones that return will do so because they want to be part of that.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by maladroit » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:55 pm

Or we could install teflon-coated speed bumps out on K-street and watch the Segways mill around uselessly.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by some seeing eye » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:09 pm

The article you (OP) cite is clickbait for the website. It was written by their celebrity reporter. There was another post on ePlaya by a photog who lost a lens amidst a gang of photogs imaging a model. So we have paparazzi now. I'm not really interested in celebrity culture at the event. This and the questions you raise were discussed extensively on ePlaya and on the Burning Blog. We are at year one of the response to that.

As for RV drivers delivering in RVs, flying out and delivering another - they may not be consuming tickets. They should be coming in on a vendor pass, and then company will be paying the 3% BLM vendor fee. BMORG tracing vendor deliveries to placed camps allows BMORG to inventory things like RV licence plates to be sure they are following the rules for that, and check interactivity. It should be the same for laborers pre and post the event, vendor pass. So if someone is using tickets for labor/delivery, the will be caught and likely the BLM will be fierce on them.

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by VultureChow » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:13 pm

andy wrote: In particular, I cringe at the term "bucket list" regarding BM because if it's a bucket list item you have already missed the point - eating a gardenburger once is not "experiencing the vegetarian lifestyle".
Though I find the term annoying (stupid movie) coming to Burning Man because you want to come at least once is not a bad reason. I don't think most of us came as a virgin thinking this was going to be a lifelong thing. I came because I had heard about it for years and wanted to try it before I was too old to find the idea of roughing it in desert sounded like fun.

Virgins can make art and bring awesome gifts, but their mere presence should be a gift. It's like watching a toddler have their first bite of ice cream. If all a virgin did their first year was stick something in my bug zapper glory hole, it was a marvelous gift to me.

Also, what is a "Burner Lifestyle?" It's not the gifting culture. I'm an unrepentant capitalist who works all year long so I can afford to "gift". There are gun nuts and reiki nuts and DJs knitters. The ONLY thing we all have in common is this one really weird week in the desert.
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by DrYes » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:13 pm

Just a quick point about the camp in the OP's post, Cirque Gitane: I found it to be one of the most welcoming, pleasant camps I've ever been to. We liked it so much we visited on three different nights. Everybody was friendly, the wine they were pouring was decent, and the environment was cool. Plug n' play it may (or may not) be, but it was definitely interactive and it gave back. For me, that's the line we should care about when it comes to placed camps (and you can't run a camp like that without placement).

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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by Dr. Brap » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:25 pm

I think the problem lies with the media. Burning Man is no longer a secret and there's no turning back. It is mainstream. Katy Perry Instagramming her Segway fail is only going to add 30,000 teenie boppers into the general sale. These people don't give a shit about knowing the ten principles, let alone following them.

Members of a plug and play camp do not need to follow the ten principles. They don't need to rely on themselves, they don't need to pick up after themselves etc. These people are NOT going to just go away. I enjoyed reading an earlier post about someone taking some plug and players out for a "real" experience. Education could help solve the problem but there are many, I suspect, that will not allow themselves to subjected to education. It really sucks but it's just something that we have to deal with.

What's hard to define though is why it sucks. Think about it, why does this bother us? It's not like they come into your camp and ask for a handout. They certainly don't need one. In fact, I walked into one of their camps looking for a knife (girlfriend's vintage Schwinn was having problems [before it got stolen in broad daylight at the man]) and I met a nice woman who provided me with the knife and insisted that I hold it with the blade facing backwards and that I do not run. Sound advice indeed! What struck me were the rows upon rows of picnic tables. It honestly looked like my high school cafeteria. The kitchen was housed in a semi truck trailer. These things have no physical affect on me whatsoever yet I could not stop thinking about it.

A case of the have-and-the-have-nots? Perhaps. I have a year of banter amongst friends online as we plot, scheme, and cook our plans up for this epic week. I have dust in every hole and crevice of my body. I have food that I cooked that tastes so freaking good at 3am...Food that I get to share with my campmates. These people will never experience these things. I have more and yet something about them bothers me.

I find them weird because I don't understand them. I wouldn't want to be in a plug and play camp. As someone else mentioned, the bulk of my burn happens before the end of August. The fantasizing is the fun part! One thing I thought about ahead of time was getting to see Beats Antique, Major Lazer and Jack U at Camp ? on Thrusday night. YES, I like EDM! I live in Vegas, duh! Four of us made it within a reasonable distance of the stage about 20 minutes before Beats Antique started playing. We lasted about 20 minutes into their set before all four of us simultaneously just couldn't take it anymore. The absolute douchbagery and Assholiness had reached it's echelon. It was Southern California at it's finest. We were literally surrounded by a sea of "I don't give a fuck about anyone but myself." This was my fourth burn and I hadn't see these kind of people at Burning Man before and yes, I saw Skrillex and Diplo last year.

Burning Man is changing right before our eyes. Media attention will continue to attract people who simply don't get it and don't care to get it. You can either ignore them, confront them, or educate them.
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by Weebdog » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:12 pm

I agree with Dr Yes, Cirque Gitane was a nice camp that we visited several times also. The people were friendly and it was kind of a cool setup. While working with ESD Fire, they invited us to dinner and drinks (had to decline). The tents were said to be from Barnum and Baily's circus and about 100 years old. They had a fun show at night in their lounge. I hope they come back next year.
Run Silent - Run Deep

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lucky420
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by lucky420 » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:17 am

maladroit wrote:Or we could install teflon-coated speed bumps out on K-street and watch the Segways mill around uselessly.
Please and yes :lol:
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silvergirl70
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Re: 2015 turn key camps and self reliance

Post by silvergirl70 » Sat May 14, 2016 1:47 pm

I camped next to a turnkey camp last year. As a virgin burner, I wasn't familiar with the idea of turnkey. I was thrilled to get tickets to the event and spent the next 5 months dealing with logistics (flying from Midwest via Boston after my cousin's wedding) and seeing how I could espouse the 10 principles. I volunteered with ESD (fabulous way to meet a cross section of people), I bought a little foldable solar panel that I use outside of the event. I camped in an awesome tent. I read up on the physics of tensile structures.
I was sad to see the turnkey people abandon their camp after the burn. I don't think a single one stayed for the temple burn, which I thought was really the soul of the event. I was living across from a ghost town for two days at the end of the burn. The southern ladies that paid boku bucks to sit outside their camp and gift little glass jars of jelly were gone. The auction-style call for chow three times a day was gone.
I had a very different experience than they did. I probably learned a lot more in the long run (experience and practical knowledge) but then again, they didn't need or want any of that. I could feel smug, but I really don't. We were all there for different reasons, and all took something personal away from the event.
Regarding the principles, I suppose in the truest sense of the word what they did was self reliant. They relied on money to provide a service. That may be all they know. I relied on money to buy products and food and provided myself the service. Was their experience any less pure than mine? In a way a diamond in the rough is....I felt mine was a little more sparkly when the sun came out, but that's what I'm taking away from it. OK. A little smug.
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