2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

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Canoe
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:57 am

bradtem wrote:This is amazing. So what would account for this? Usually departure right after burns, or on Monday after 7am until 5pm has involved 5 hour trips from camp to blacktop, sometimes 7 hours. Is Exodus crew doing something new and amazing? Has the pattern of departure changed greatly? How is the 70,000 person city draining far better than the 50,000 person one?

The reported 2017 Exit Times (Gate to Highway 34) are astoundingly less than that reported in 2016.

With the latest chart, and matching 2017 exit times to 2016 exit times, it looks like:
  • significantly fewer vehicles in 2017?
  • 12 lanes of pulsing (how many in 2016?) & experience allows finer control of releasing to and loading of the highway?
  • a whole bunch of vehicles are still hiding in BRC and will be leaving later on Tuesday?
  • a whole bunch of vehicles are being left on the playa like the annual roundup of feral bikes?
Too bad the Burning Man Traffic tweets don't include vehicle volumes.
"My favorite people are the people of the dessert", said Lawrence as he picked up his fork.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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bradtem
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby bradtem » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:45 am

Better pulsing should not affect exodus times. The main thing that affects that is better handling of the chokepoints. I have been told that Exodus believes that Gerlach is the main chokepoint, and a little bit 34. Not the turn onto 34 which is what I thought it would be (and which could be improved with a temporary traffic light.)

Fewer vehicles or more people waiting for Tuesday would be the only things to seriously reduce times.
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Canoe
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:46 am

Something sure has had an effect.

If I understand how it works (which isn't overly likely), the pulsing is required as an intentional and managed choke point so they can control the loading of traffic volume onto 34 and 447. With lots of pulsing lanes there is less (no?) delay when they have capacity to move more vehicles onto 34. With more experience and/or better immediate feedback on the volume/congestion on 34, Gerlach, Empire and so on down 447 through the various communities and down to I-80, then they can fine-tune the loading to the maximum rate for vehicles onto the highway without causing congestion to the point of slowdowns that make the highway a bottleneck (slow AND dangerous).

It is highly likely that they have vehicle counts exiting onto 34, so from year to year they could build more reliable management of the pulsing and the loading of the highway. Other than what has been published on the pulsing and the need to manage highway flow, no one has explained it to me, but there are signs it's a lot more sophisticated than I envisioned.

Or it's a conspiracy to maximize the sale of Indian Tacos. Man I love those.
"My favorite people are the people of the dessert", said Lawrence as he picked up his fork.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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bradtem
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby bradtem » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:11 am

No, pulsing should not affect flow, or so Exodus has said, and it makes sense. Pulsing is just there so that instead of sitting in stop and go for the whole time, idling engines and burning fuel and kicking up dust, people stop and party for an hour.

The main potential bottlenecks are the entrance to the blacktop, 34 itself, Gerlach, and the Empire store. Exodus has said they believe Gerlach is the primary bottleneck. You must fix the primary bottleneck first, it doesn't do any good to fix the others if you don't fix that. If it is Gerlach, it can still be the case that because some fraction of people go north instead of to Gerlach, flow could be improved by improving the turn onto 34. Because people slow and exercise caution for human flaggers but gun the throttle to catch a light, that would be the best thing there.

Sadly, it's hard to encourage people from Sacramento and south to take the northern route. It adds 3.5 hours to the trip (so the wait has to be at least 4.5 hours to make it worthwhile) and it adds lots to the cost of gasoline and depreciation. For the NW and North it can be an obvious choice.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Token » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:52 am

Until we get all the data ...

How many vehicle passes checked through gate

How many people flew in

How many people bussed in

You know, two + years from now when the afterburner report posts ...

Maybe then can some causality percolate up from the noise.

Otherwise - just shooting the frogbat.

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Canoe
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:27 pm

where delays from potholes on 34 being repaired
had a time for the latest period, but now listed as LE has 34 blocked in both directions

2017 Exodus Times from Burning Man Traffic - to Tuesday 1 pm.png
"My favorite people are the people of the dessert", said Lawrence as he picked up his fork.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Canoe
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:11 pm

2017 Exodus Times from Burning Man Traffic - to Tuesday 4 pm.png
"My favorite people are the people of the dessert", said Lawrence as he picked up his fork.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:19 pm

2017 Exodus Times from Burning Man Traffic - to Tuesday 9 pm.png
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"My favorite people are the people of the dessert", said Lawrence as he picked up his fork.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:30 am

There was no need for speed limit enforcement .. That was one bumpy ride
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby FlyingMonkey » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:16 pm

Set alarm to leave at 6:00 AM Monday. Packed up & it took about 1 hour to go from Esplanade to pavement. Noticing that it was unusually dark for 7:00 AM I realized that my phone never corrected for the 2 time zones I crossed. So 4:00 AM is a good time to leave I guess :-)

I was surprised by how many people apparently left the night before & pulled over to sleep on the highway. I was also somewhat annoyed by the asshats that didn't pull off to a safe distance from the traffic causing us to drive in the wrong lane occasionally.

I was not surprised by the number of asshats that allowed their garbage to fall off their vehicles. Way to represent folks!

And of course the impatient jackwagons that passed multiple vehicles in bling no passing zones going up hill. Some day they are going to kill someone. I predict a head-on collision next year resulting in fatalities which closes the road for 12 hours.
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby bradtem » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:58 pm

People have passed like that since the dawn of burning time, but no head-ons yet. Not that they could not happen. Whether people who leave early and pause to sleep are good or evil depends on where the bottleneck is, and if they selfishly create another bottleneck down the road when they merge. And yes, people have had loose garbage (and gear) since the dawn of time too, it seems.

One could imagine creating a sleeping lot in Empire or at the 3 mile, but the worry would be that would just create another bottleneck, especially if people slowed down to let them in or they forced their way in rather than waiting for gaps. Gaps often appear before slow vehicles (trucks/RVs etc.) into which you can merge without reducing traffic flow. But discipline is another story. To make it work would probably require an exodus worker to wave people on to the flow. Not the best use of that time probably. Now if you can drive to Nixon, that's another story, there is no bottleneck after Nixon. A sleeping lot there would work well -- but it's very far.

This year reports say a lot of people packed it in early due to heat, haze, and horrible events with burns canceled. Thus the lightest Monday I have ever heard of.
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:39 pm

Many off the road this year .. Those old beat up RV's can not take that "another " trip to the playa ..People need to understand ,: It is an extreme camping trip .. Not a luxury cruise .. But we are in an age of,: Run everything as hard as you can, until it dies .. Then with out any survival skills, come crying for help .. i.e. running the ball bearing out on the ground instead of a little oil the day before ..

If you can not repair it?? Do not bring the nastiest crap you can lay your hands on to the playa ..
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby TT120 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:18 am

Gate road was trashed. There were several places that were so bad I could only go a couple miles an hour and it was still hell on my trucks suspension. I left at 3:00pm on Monday and didn't get my room in Reno until 9:30pm that night. The 5mph crawl all the way to Empire was brutal. Good thing I had snacks and water and a pee bottle available in the cab of my truck.

Saw a couple asshats that were passing everyone they could, double yellows be damned.
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:33 am

Tell that to the NFL. Have you ever looked up how much carbon footprint there is in ONE game, let alone the entire football season?
Anyone who thinks Burning Man is a hippie event clearly hasn't been and doesn't know what they're talking about.

But yeah... everyone knows it's not a tree hugging event. Not news, bro.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Dr. Pyro » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:10 pm

David ELF wrote: selfish, wasteful , capitalistic earth killing party.


I for one happen to like my selfish, wasteful, capitalistic earth killing party. I'm not sure I get your point comrade.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby AfricanFire » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:06 pm

TT120 wrote:Gate road was trashed. There were several places that were so bad I could only go a couple miles an hour and it was still hell on my trucks suspension. I left at 3:00pm on Monday and didn't get my room in Reno until 9:30pm that night. The 5mph crawl all the way to Empire was brutal. Good thing I had snacks and water and a pee bottle available in the cab of my truck.

Saw a couple asshats that were passing everyone they could, double yellows be damned.


Gate road was almost impassable on Monday afternoon (left at 3.30pm). I had to go at about 3mph, and wasn't sure my car was going to make it. Traffic was moving steadily, but slowly, and no pulsing needed. But all that went to shit once I hit pavement. Took more than 2 hours to get to Empire, a total of 5 hours to Fernley. I've never had this happen before. Once I've hit pavement it has been pretty smooth sailing, if a little congested. The train that crossed the road right around this time didn't help at all either.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby fireheadwhale » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:56 pm

I like the idea of a sleeping lot after gate. I would pay 5 or 10 bucks to have a pull-through space to park my trailer and sleep a while. OTOH it may create its own mini-Exodus. I was relieved to get to the rest area between Wadsworth and Reno on I80 to stop and nap my dangerously drowzy self at 3 AM before moving on at 6 AM.
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby bradtem » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:08 am

fireheadwhale wrote:I like the idea of a sleeping lot after gate. I would pay 5 or 10 bucks to have a pull-through space to park my trailer and sleep a while. OTOH it may create its own mini-Exodus. I was relieved to get to the rest area between Wadsworth and Reno on I80 to stop and nap my dangerously drowzy self at 3 AM before moving on at 6 AM.


After gate won't cut it. It has to be after the bottleneck, wherever the bottleneck is. Otherwise releasing the sleepers into the flow just tries to put more through the bottleneck, which you can't do. There is no lack of capacity on the Playa -- it's 14 lanes wide and can be even wider.
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Token » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:13 pm

Technically, once you clear the closure area you can do whatever the fuck you want as long as it don't break laws.

Remember that most of the playa is open for public use outside the closure area.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:09 pm

Best drive @ 45 mph in the early morning , going north .. At 4:30 I met two coyote 5 deer and some cows, all on the pavement.. There are a lot of turn outs, to check your load and take a nap, until sunrise .. Speed limit for three axels + is 45mph .. Car with trailer is three axels .. There are also a few little towns , with speed limits.. Do not fuck with their speed limit, they will not fuck you over..
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Canoe
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby Canoe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:01 pm

unjonharley wrote:... Speed limit for three axels + is 45mph ...

What? I completely missed this. Can you elaborate?
"My favorite people are the people of the dessert", said Lawrence as he picked up his fork.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby EGAZ » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:00 pm

Agreed, Gate road was like a bombed out runway. 2-3mph most of the way out at 7pm Mon. Through a white out no less. :) Two stops on the pavement, slow (10-20mph) the rest of the way to Gerlach. Arrived in Fallon at 10pm for a nights sleep before my 12hr final leg...... :mrgreen:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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Re: 2017 Exodus: Traffic, stories, etc.

Postby unjonharley » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:00 am

Canoe wrote:
unjonharley wrote:... Speed limit for three axels + is 45mph ...

What? I completely missed this. Can you elaborate?

CA. HWY road signs ..
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