Hub motors on the playa?

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:58 am

wondering about how durable electric bike hub motors are on the playa. I have a bottom bracket mount electric bike, and I am glad I didn't bring it last year. Anybody have any feedback/experience with an e-bike, and whether it still worked when you got home? I'm thinking of making a mutant trike with a 24V motor front hub.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:16 pm

...and decorating it I hope - pretty sure that such would have to be registered with DMV as a mutant vehicle

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:17 pm

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:08 pm

What is a bottom bracket mount bike?

Heinzmann motors seem to hold up well out there.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:34 pm

My 36v hub drive works just fine after 07 trip to the playa..

Am converting my 04, 24v chain drive to assist power a trik this year.. will be using a three speed bike hub for the electric final drive..

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:15 pm

Thanks. The bottom bracket mount motor is located about where you'd attach a kick stand, under the bike, and it drives the chain. Cyclone motors sells a kit that includes new crank arms that flare out a little bit so they don't hit the motor, also it has a free wheel front sprocket so you can keep the pedals still while the chain still drives the back wheel. 24V ~350W Kind of neat in that you still use the gears on the back. Speed is good, and I wish I had a higher gear or two. I'm looking at an internally geared rear hub for that stay at home bike, since I've thrown the chain off the front a couple times and think this may be do to the slack from the rear derailleur and the torque of the motor. I don't think the motor would take to the dust too well. I thought that the hub motor would be a bit more protected. My trike is in a dreaming stage right now... thinking of using the "economic stimulus" for this project. When I think of the batteries, charging the batteries, etc. $$$$ I start reaching back toward human power. we'll see.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:00 am

For recharging the 24 volt, I used a generator from a 1960's VW and a 7 hp engine.. split the battries back to 12's with a simple amp meter in line..

Beats the hell out of making DC then AC and back to DC agian..

Had the gennie laying around and the engine for 30$ from a junkie..
Still have the set up and will have it on the playa this year..

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:22 pm

I like the idea of a geared motor on a bike.
Most bikes that do this use an SRAM internal transmission.
There are many choices now.

I would think there must be a way to make a derailleur work though.

Any advice about the bottom bracket type?
I'm interested in using the drive component but mounting the motor higher.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:08 pm

Stoke monkey is a kit that mounts the motor inside the frame, drives a sprocket on the left side of the chain wheel... that plus a freewheel on the right side, you might be on to something. I wonder if you can purchase or salvage the part from a tandem bike that the person in back pedals, they can stop pedaling while the chain is still being driven. Otherwise, you have to keep pedaling even though you don't have to push as much. The motor is better protected, and still balances nicely on the bike. The transmission on the rear wheel is still regular bike stuff, derailleur, or internally geared. and DC to DC charging.... very clever. "V is for Voltage" forum has a lot of good information on pedelcs.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:09 am

Stoke monkey is very interesting, if complex.

I got the idea from a bike custom made that drove direct to the rear wheel.
The motor location allows a much better and cheaper motor than most.

Who made your bottom bracket design?
I have seen one from australia with very advanced batteries, but the exchange rate is murder now.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:58 am

I have seen some extentions of the rear wheel of bikes..They are sold already made up.. A person could made there own cheaply..

This seems like a good way to go if your adding a motor..

It also turns the bike into a good hauler.. Some times needed on the playa..

Or,, How about a extended doul wheeler??

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:33 am

I'd like to modify the frame as little as possible.
I may buy a factory electric and modify it.
Extending the rear would slow down the steering response of the bike, but that may not be so bad with the extra weight.
I'm looking for the site I found the modified bikes on, but can't locate it so far.

I found a few forums though.

http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=258

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/

http://visforvoltage.org/

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:34 pm

I'd imagine that driving the slack end of the chain (the bottom, on it's way back to the derailleur) would be problematic due to poor tension, and the top side would work better, but a freewheel pedal crank would be almost mandatory to keep from tossing the chain.
In '01 I made a bike motor setup that was similar to one I'd seen commercially available some time ago. It was a gas engine that spun a small rubber tire that simply contacted the front tire on the tread. It had a latch that let you swing it up a few inches to de-clutch it.
You could probably do a similar thing with an electric motor. No problems with chains, clearance for the crank, extra freewheeling setups...
I found that the driven front wheel was a big advantage in soft playa, because I had rear drive from the pedals too... an all-wheel-drive bike! It got me through stuff I wouldn't have made it through otherwise.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:41 pm

Direct drive wasn't a problem with the dust?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:39 pm

No problem at all. It worked great!
I didn't have a digicam then, aint got no pics.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:07 pm

I got my bike motor kit from Cyclone USA, and got the 24V NiMh battery, small, but alas not easy to break out to 2x12V. Lead acid batteries are a lot cheaper in comparison, and if I had a trike, the size as well would be less of an issue. I think the direct wheel to wheel drive has friction and tire wear issues but I don't speak from experience. There are several gas engine conversion kits, chain driven and direct drive... price wise, a lot less than a generator plus engine and batteries. 4 cycle and 2 cycle. I'm wondering if this crosses into an unallowed type of vehicles unless heavily mutated. Velosolex bikes were popular as the first "mopeds" that had the engine mounted over the front wheel, but I'm not sure what the drive mechanism looks like. I wonder if there are any old beaters out there. I totally overlooked the "all wheel drive" aspect of the front wheel hub motor... I know I got pretty tired hitting the "dunes" unawares.

www.cyclone-usa.com

they sell the freewheeling crank adapter as well.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:05 pm

Powered bikes are subject to mutant vehicle licensing. As mentioned elsewhere, I did get chased by the DMV and told I could not ride my powered mountain bike. So, uh... of course I put it away and didn't ride it anymore... yep... that's what I did...
The only exceptions I'm aware of are the "go-ped" stand-up scooters, the stipulation being that it does not have a seat.

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:41 pm

What about yer boat cappin?