Duct Tape and heat

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chongman99
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Duct Tape and heat

Post by chongman99 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:09 pm

I'm a third time burner and am trying to figure out the sticky question of what duct tape is best and if some other tape is better.

Duct tape hasn't withstood the heat of burning man that well, and duct taping over the mest of a tent that blows a low generates issues of the thing being taped wiggling in the wind and getting loose. The glue tends to melt and then it's just gummy MOOP.

Please share stories of good, bad, and ugly duct tape.

===

I found a link to high temperature duct tape. Anybody try it?
http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/sc ... tml?ref=42
Good to up to 200degrees they say?

I hope to get some different tapes and see which one works best. Anyone also curious should PM me or reply. I experiment out of Berkeley.

For the hexayurt project, they recommend double-filament packing tape. I agree that for a more sturdy application, one should use double-filament, but for a week, would duct tape work? I'm gonna test and find out. I think it can.

Though, to be extra careful, I'd put some extra staked rebar (maybe 3 ft) in the middle of each hexayurt panel.

I found this article on duct tape, that it doesn't stand up in the heat.
http://epb.lbl.gov/Publications/lbl-41434.pdf

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:19 pm

There are several problems with duct tape if you are considering that to hold your yurt together.

1. The duct tape doesn't stick that well to the panels. (You would need to make sure you clean them really, really well to make sure you have removed all of the film of oil that I assume is from the manufacturing process.) We used duct tape to tape all around the panels to cut down on moop. (This was preparing the yurt at home, thank dog.) When we woke up the next morning, all most all of the tape was just hanging off.

2. It is only 2.5" or 3" wide at most. Which means if you are using it to attach your panels, you don't have a lot of surface area holding the panels.

We did find some 'duck' tape that was available in almost any color you could imagine, which surprisingly adhered much better than regular 'duct' tape; but would never recommend using anything other than the 6" wide bi-directional tape--especially after experiencing the winds from inside the yurt last year.

There was a guy that had a yurt next to us who put his yurt together rather half-assed--and he did have some problems with the winds. We were maticulous with ours, and I wouldn't do it any other way.

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chongman99
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3m duct tape and other tapes, with links

Post by chongman99 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:37 pm

3m duct tape (8979 model) is 36lbs/inch width in tensile strength

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... cQ2D1CCCCC

Note: they say to store in 60-80degF conditions.

3M Scotch Bi-directional filament tape (8959):
150 lb/inch width tensile
50lb/inch width lateral
(note: these are what hexayurt.com recommends, as of 3/15/2009 at least)
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... 5ECOrrrrQ-

(idea: most stress on joins are lateral ; so one might want to reinforce with some tape applied /against/ the join for some extra strength.

Also, note that I saw some 2inch wide "extreme tape" by scotch at the Home Depot. This was the only double-filament tape I found. I think it said it had a tensile strength in the 150's/inch tensile range and 50's/inch lengthwise. but I forgot to write it down.


3m box sealing tapes:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... GGC52N4Mgl

Specially designed for higher crosswise-joins:
Scotch 313 for example has 56lbs/inch in the cross direction, 35/lbs/inch width in the tensile direction.

Open question is how this performs in the sun. It says storage temperature is 40-80degrees F, but that's probably not a big deal; wouldn't want to store my duct tape in the heat either.

3m glass cloth tape for high heat applications (expensive):
182lbs /inch width

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... J0COrrrrQ-

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Post by chongman99 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:39 pm

This stuff looks interesting, but no clue on the strength. Has fiberglass stength, ya?

http://www.instawares.com/gummed-sealin ... 83.0.7.htm

Quality Park Fiberglass Reinforced Gummed Tape - 3" Width x 375' Length - 1.625" Core - Fiberglass - 1 Each - Brown

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Post by SilverOrange » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:52 pm

There's a flashing used in construction that could be perfect for you. This stuff was developed to be usable in high temperature environments (tested up to 240 degrees) and sticks to just about anything. It sticks so well if you fuck up it's hard to get back off. It's also water proof. I used a chunk to fix a hole in my rain gear on a fishing boat and it was still going strong six months later. Comes in 75' rolls. 4", 6", and 9" widths.

Here's a link to a pdf data sheet:


http://www.graceathome.com/pages/downloads/TP_131.pdf

Should be available anyplace that sells construction supplies. Good luck.

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Post by chongman99 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:09 pm

Wow, that picture with the screw on pg 2 of the flashing pdf was really cool!


I thought about construction flashing. No first hand experience, but looked at the 3m datasheet:

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebse ... 6E666666--

Says its good for sealing and has really good adhesion. Sounds like it's be great for keeping dust out (i.e. to cover mesh tents). Though, it doesn't sound like it comes off easily. Acrylic-based adhesive.

But for hexayurt application, sounds untested. No spec on its tear strength, though they say its tear resistant.

Which means I should get some and then try to tear it.

One 4in x 75ft roll looks like it costs about $40, so it's more expensive than both double-filament and duct tape, though it's always nice to double-check me.

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Post by Dustdevil » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:25 pm

I stopped using duct tape years ago. Try using gaffer's tape. The brand I like best is Shurtape. Look on Ebay. Besides holding things together it is strong enough to create black powder lifter charges for gas mines.
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chongman99
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Post by chongman99 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:07 pm

Thanks for the gaffer's tape hint:


Findtape has a great website that allows side by side comparisons.
For Shurtape:

Like so
http://www.findtape.com/shop/comparison ... 30|316|508

Gaffer's tape is stronger than duct tape.

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Post by somekind » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:24 am

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Post by SilverOrange » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:48 am

chongman99 wrote:
Says its good for sealing and has really good adhesion. Sounds like it's be great for keeping dust out (i.e. to cover mesh tents). Though, it doesn't sound like it comes off easily. Acrylic-based adhesive.
I would never use this to cover a mesh tent! At least not if you ever want to use it again. This stuff is REALLY sticky and the mesh would get destroyed, guaranteed. It would be great to assemble a hexayurt, but I wouldn't try to pull it back off again, I would just slice it down the joints. As far as strength goes, you would probably be hard pressed to tear it. The only downside to it would be that it would require a couple people to apply it. It has a paper backing that you have to peel off and once you do that you do not want it to stick back on itself or where you don't want it. You can remove it but it'll screw up the adhesive or in the case of a hexayurt it'll rip off the backing to the insulation.

Also it probably is more expensive than a lot of other tapes out there, but it'll stand up to heat, wind, dust, rain, etc. Worth it if you want the piece of mind that it's there and gonna work for you.

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Post by AntiM » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:32 am

We use shaped to fit chunks of pressed fiber blankets held on with spring clamps, covered by an old comforter/quilt held on with more spring clamps to secure the mesh on our tent. We skip the rainfly. The interior of our tent is practically dust-free. No sticky one-use tape waste and we have a mesh top we can use when we want.

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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:55 am

The cheap tents we used to get at wally world have mesh built in with no cover on it.

So - we simply put the tent up, and then spray painted the vents closed. 2-3 coats of paint will fill in that fine mesh easily.

expanding foam troweled on works well too. My buddy lives in 3-4 large cardboard boxes, tapes windows in, even cuts hole for an AC unit. End of week, he burns his home packs up AC unit and goes bout his way.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:35 pm

I think this thread and the Goop Threads need to be moved to a new Tape and Glue forum.
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Post by AntiM » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:09 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I think this thread and the Goop Threads need to be moved to a new Tape and Glue forum.
where all threads will be sticky.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:22 pm

AntiM wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I think this thread and the Goop Threads need to be moved to a new Tape and Glue forum.
where all threads will be sticky.
lol
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Post by Elderberry » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:23 pm

AntiM wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I think this thread and the Goop Threads need to be moved to a new Tape and Glue forum.
where all threads will be sticky.
:)

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Post by robotland » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:14 am

AntiM wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I think this thread and the Goop Threads need to be moved to a new Tape and Glue forum.
where all threads will be sticky.
BRAVO!


I've found pretty good 5" wide DT at our regional surplus store, but after getting spoiled on using the cool "chrome" tape they promptly ran out of it and have never ordered it again. (Probably an odd-lot clearance thing.)
You can reinforce a duct tape seam by running over it with a sewing machine, but watch for sticking. I always have my machine set up with a heavy-duty needle that pokes a big hole, which helps. So does lightly oiling it, but that can necessitate cleanup afterwards. Spraying the area to be taped with Super 77 Spray Adhesive and allowing to tack up briefly can also increase the bond.
BUT
Tape is tape, and always will be. Except for when I'm working with cardboard I've decided to sew or use mechanical fasteners wherever possible. More time invested, but in the long run less mess and repair.

Although,

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Post by Bounce530 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:16 am

mdmf007 wrote:The cheap tents we used to get at wally world have mesh built in with no cover on it.

So - we simply put the tent up, and then spray painted the vents closed. 2-3 coats of paint will fill in that fine mesh easily.
I just might be gullible enough to try that...I'm thinking a 'high-build' primer, or just plain old kyrlon? Is the paint, when dry, flexible enough to roll the tent back up without the paint cracking off?
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Post by Sail Man » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:31 pm

SilverOrange wrote:There's a flashing used in construction that could be perfect for you. This stuff was developed to be usable in high temperature environments (tested up to 240 degrees) and sticks to just about anything. It sticks so well if you fuck up it's hard to get back off. It's also water proof. I used a chunk to fix a hole in my rain gear on a fishing boat and it was still going strong six months later. Comes in 75' rolls. 4", 6", and 9" widths.

Here's a link to a pdf data sheet:


http://www.graceathome.com/pages/downloads/TP_131.pdf

Should be available anyplace that sells construction supplies. Good luck.
That stuff looks awesome, and I agree with the screw comment, damn!
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Post by robotland » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:30 pm

Bounce530 wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:The cheap tents we used to get at wally world have mesh built in with no cover on it.

So - we simply put the tent up, and then spray painted the vents closed. 2-3 coats of paint will fill in that fine mesh easily.
I just might be gullible enough to try that...I'm thinking a 'high-build' primer, or just plain old kyrlon? Is the paint, when dry, flexible enough to roll the tent back up without the paint cracking off?
It works! Krylon's great for this. The flaking happens when you glob paint onto a surface that's not porous enough to soak up the paint. As always, YMMV so do a test.
Great way to use up the tail ends of weird-colored cans of spraybomb. You can dump the leftover Adobe Mauve or Intestinal Pink, finishing with a cooler topcoat of Metallic Aluminum (my favorite!) for maximum heat reflectivity.
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Post by TomServo » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:56 am

Anyone try Gorilla tape? not as gooey as duct tape but holds strong in the real world
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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