Who has facts on the porta potties?

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Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby JustDave » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:08 am

Been researching online... Is RobbiDobbs still in charge? I'd love to get some details on how our sewage system works/costs/etc...

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby AntiM » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:52 am

She was the volunteer liaison, and has been taking some time off. You would need to contact the BMORG for details.

I am sure you've read the toilet page, yes?

https://burningman.org/event/preparatio ... -disposal/
http://burningman.org/timeline/

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby lucky420 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:22 pm

I believe the CO from MASH is now doing it. But yes as AntiM says "contact the BMORG"
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby unjonharley » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:00 pm

Port-a-pot info, : They were as shitty this year as all other years ..
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Token » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:03 pm

And don't hold your breath (pun intended) for any vast details either.

AFAIK, 2013 was the last year readable financials were posted in the afterburn report.

https://burningman.org/culture/history/ ... ial-chart/

2014 and later the BORG went non-profit and stoped publishing. I'm guessing it's searchable via the IRS.

In 2013, the shitters cost just shy of a million Clams.

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby JustDave » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:37 pm

Thanks, everyone. This is really helpful intel. I'll reach out to BMORG, and I did a non-profit 990 tax search, as well. If your curious...
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pd ... 12_990.pdf

~$1M for toilets in 2013 is big number. Just curious to understand the whole process and whether anyone has ever attempted to design porta potties specific to the BM environment. I wonder what a mechanical engineer would come up with or if that's already happened.

Gonna look a little deeper into this shit.

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:51 am

Maybe I need glasses, but every time I see this thread I see "Who has farts on the porta potties"

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:54 am

Admiral Fukkit wrote:Maybe I need glasses, but every time I see this thread I see "Who has farts on the porta potties"


This is how the Admiral tells , who's who ..
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby 171/348 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:21 am

JustDave wrote:just curious to understand the whole process and whether anyone has ever attempted to design porta potties specific to the BM environment. I wonder what a mechanical engineer would come up with or if that's already happened.

Gonna look a little deeper into this shit.

Before you get too deep in that shit...

Think about the pots United brings out to the playa. Burning Man is the place portapotties go to die. They get destroyed out there. The locks and handles get broken off, the tops get smashed open (Yay for ventilation!), seats are removed, I never remember seeing so many without floors as I did this year, etc.

United Services is becoming the only game in town, buying up most of their competition. Been dealing with them for a few years now at a smaller festival (~30,000 people) since they bought Potty Queen and they fucking suck! I can assure you though, having seen their nicer stock (Back stage and elsewhere), that festivals get portos on their last leg. The worst of the worst, as it were. And it makes perfect sense, why send anything decent to a place where they are just going to get destroyed? I'd even be willing to bet that once a pot goes to the playa, it never goes anywhere else. It's likely they have local storage for the ones that are still usable after the event and they just replenish next year with ones that aren't good enough to put out on jobsites anymore.


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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:34 am

? Question ? I was in formed the pots were now owns by BM org.. Is this true ??
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:52 am

What I understand is that you're exactly right, they keep a yard full of portos that are for Burning Man and don't go anywhere else, for exactly the reasons you listed.
Also because of the risk that Unjon has ever used them.

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby JustDave » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:31 am

171/348 wrote:United Services is becoming the only game in town, buying up most of their competition. Been dealing with them for a few years now at a smaller festival (~30,000 people) since they bought Potty Queen and they fucking suck! I can assure you though, having seen their nicer stock (Back stage and elsewhere), that festivals get portos on their last leg. The worst of the worst, as it were. And it makes perfect sense, why send anything decent to a place where they are just going to get destroyed? I'd even be willing to bet that once a pot goes to the playa, it never goes anywhere else. It's likely they have local storage for the ones that are still usable after the event and they just replenish next year with ones that aren't good enough to put out on jobsites anymore.

[/color]

That makes sense. If you're a company that is trying to make money, and you have a festival that has to take what it can get, you'd provide portos on their last leg.

I'm still really limited on my information at the moment, but it seems like there's one game in town (United Services), and BM has to use porta potties that are constructed for the more typical environmental conditions/human behavior.

Without having done a ton of research, I'd assume that the real cost is in disposal. Unless I'm missing something, it seems as though (for the most part) that portos are simply plastic containers... and to your point, really old very used ones at that. If United Services runs the show, and we have to settle for what we can, why would they ever think about improving them.

So then I think about a ~1M budget from 2013 (so maybe even higher today), and I wonder... given the funding, couldn't a specific porto be designed for the playa conditions.

Just gathering info at the moment... But I have a feeling a lot of burners would contribute to a campaign to hire engineers to build a playa-specifc porto.

This all came up because I was at the Oregon Eclipse Fest before the burn, and they have metal portos with lighting on the inside. Granted you couldn't use this design for the burn, but it showed that things can be improved.

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:42 am

There is no way all-new potties of a non-standard custom design would be cost effective.
What do you think is wrong with the standard design?
Why don't you think these expensive new ones wouldn't suffer the same fate?

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby EGAZ » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:05 am

This is my question too. What is it you are looking for that the existing portos do not provide besides their condition?
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Ratty » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:10 am

The Borg owns these portos. They are stored in Reno. In 2015 they bought some new ones to add the portos in deep playa. That was the first year of the designated music zone out there. Please feel free to bring a sharpie and add to the graffiti. In 2015, (the year I worked with Robbi Dobbs on the Porta Potty Project), there were 1,275 at the event. I don't know who did the project this year. Maybe no one. Maybe a crew. I was impressed with finding TP available at most sites. Even at night! I didn't see any new signs go on them this year except for Zendo. The camp that helps you enjoy your 'trip'. Reach out to the FB page of Burning Man Porta Pottys for the real facts.
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby JustDave » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:25 am

Thanks, gang.

I know it all comes down to cost-effectiveness, and that it's probably unlikely that things can be changed much. Just thought it was worth looking into in case there was even some small place to improve. I personally have no issue with the portos. Just had an improved experience with them at the Eclipse festival (they were metal, had interior lighting and had a much more developed ecosystem... again I know this design wouldn't necessarily work at the burn), and it got me wondering if any upgrades were possible.

You never know for sure unless you ask, and it seems possible that this could be one aspect of BM that maybe people don't ask about.

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby lucky420 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:36 am

Ratty wrote:The Borg owns these portos. They are stored in Reno. In 2015 they bought some new ones to add the portos in deep playa. That was the first year of the designated music zone out there. Please feel free to bring a sharpie and add to the graffiti. In 2015, (the year I worked with Robbi Dobbs on the Porta Potty Project), there were 1,275 at the event. I don't know who did the project this year. Maybe no one. Maybe a crew. I was impressed with finding TP available at most sites. Even at night! I didn't see any new signs go on them this year except for Zendo. The camp that helps you enjoy your 'trip'. Reach out to the FB page of Burning Man Porta Pottys for the real facts.


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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:50 am

The only thing I can think of that might justify (potentially) the effort would be a light source, however dim, inside. Because lets face it, ravers are lucky if they can even remember to unzip. Forget "aiming". A little light, even a few candela, would go a long way to putting the piss in the pot and keeping it off the floor/walls/ceiling. Something as simple as a string of LED christmas lights draped across the exterior roofs with one LED occasionally stuck into any opportunistic hole would even work.
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:03 pm

Ok this is ridiculous. Of course you have had a better porta-potty experience some other place.
That doesn't suggest that the design of the portos needs redoing.
It's simple economics. Cleaner portos requires the average burner to quit being such a fucko... that's not happening.
It also requires a LOT more money for more frequent service.
Proposing a new design that exponentially increases the cost per unit will only make things worse.

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:24 pm

GreyCoyote wrote:The only thing I can think of that might justify (potentially) the effort would be a light source, however dim, inside. Because lets face it, ravers are lucky if they can even remember to unzip. Forget "aiming". A little light, even a few candela, would go a long way to putting the piss in the pot and keeping it off the floor/walls/ceiling. Something as simple as a string of LED christmas lights draped across the exterior roofs with one LED occasionally stuck into any opportunistic hole would even work.


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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:51 pm

unjonharley wrote:
GreyCoyote wrote:The only thing I can think of that might justify (potentially) the effort would be a light source, however dim, inside. Because lets face it, ravers are lucky if they can even remember to unzip. Forget "aiming". A little light, even a few candela, would go a long way to putting the piss in the pot and keeping it off the floor/walls/ceiling. Something as simple as a string of LED christmas lights draped across the exterior roofs with one LED occasionally stuck into any opportunistic hole would even work.


Some people can not find their ass ..


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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:54 pm

Porto-potty design is actually pretty optimal. An unclogged portopotty will draw air from the toilet section and vent it well above the person's head and not smell. Those shitters can nearly have a cone coming out of the hole and they'll still smell relatively fresh considering the massive amount of human waste that they contain.

The only way to improve the porto-potties at an event like BM is for their users to not abuse the porto-potties and to frequently clean them up. This is why there is such an emphasis on not throwing shit into the toilets that can clog up the pipes.

Not abusing the porto-potties also includes not breaking the doors and locks, not throwing toilet paper or other shit into the urinal, not breaking or removing the seat, and generally not acting like some sort of savage degenerate when you're in the porto.

There are only a few areas for improvement. As mentioned above, a dim light would be nice, but we should probably expect that people would have lights on them to see anyway. Another improvement, one person in my camp mentioned, would be to somehow move or remove the urinal so that costumes, or onesies do not catch on them when turning around to take a dump or take a piss on the sit-down toilet. This is mostly a hazard for women, who generally have a lot more to deal with when going to the bathroom. I don't know where else to put the urinal though, because its placement helps men not spray the seat. It may already be optimally placed.
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby AntiM » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:08 am

Both Larry and myself completely remove our onesies before attempting the portos. If I am wearing long flowy stuff, I take it off and leave it on the bike if I can. Even without the urinal, the floor is often awful enough I do not want to drag stuff around in there.

But yes, less savagery and more civilized behavior would do the potties a world of good.

My crusade is often against tampons, and their applicators. Most women have been trained to flush them, even though they wreak havoc on even the best plumbing systems, so dropping them in the portos seems okay. It is not.
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby Ratty » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 am

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote
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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby RockE » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:26 am

12% of all Porto parties have pics of Jesus on the door
And out of those 12%. 87% have broken locks

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Re: Who has facts on the porta potties?

Postby 171/348 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:15 am

Ahhhh, Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.


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