Virgin Burners from Holland

[burnin]

Hello you'll, my name is Kees, say K.C. and my birth date has made me a virgin for the rest of my life. Sometimes that is a pro.We will come to BM in a 30 ft RV a K32 Moturis (oslt) that we will pick up in Vegas.
I've been to America once and visited Vegas, LA, hoover dam and Grand canyon.
I didn't have to visit a mall and therefore my knowledge in that aspect is nil.
We cannot bring any stuff with us so we have to purchase a lot of things when we have the RV.
We plan to go from Vegas to Zions, Bryce, turn back to lake powell(page), Antilope Canyon, the mesas, monument valley, Arches and then take Hwy 50 to Fernley. In Fernley we plan to visit the drugstore in order to buy water, food, liquor, coke etc.
We need addresses on the route where we can buy the LED lights for our bikes, get some crazy clothes and outfit, a small tent for shadow and storage. We also need some chairs and a table.
Furthermore we would be very happy to get insider tips regarding our journey to BM and to San Francisco.
For example: is the boattrip on lake powell worth our while?
After BM we head for SF. We read about the trip on the interstate being boring and a traffic jam. Therefore we plan to travel to Carson city, stanislaus national forest and then to SF. How long is this trip gonna take? We plan to leave BM on Sunday. Is that a good idea? We have to drop off the RV on wednessday afternoon the 7th of september. Do we need that much time to drive from BM to SF via Carson city and Stanislaus?
Does anybody have an opinion about our intention to arrive relatively late at BM, I mean around 2 o clock in the night.
Will there still be a long lineup? Will we miss a lot of the initial fun?
We plan to arrive late in order to get a place were the grey water disposal truck can reach us. Is this usefull?
Is there a possibility to take in clean water from a water delivery truck?
Anyway, in spite of the big amount of info on the site we are still left with a lot of questions. Maybe you can provide us with the answers. We hope to have a fantastic time at BM and are looking forward to meeting all you fantastic people that make BM possible!

greetings and love from the guys from Holland
KC, Tommaz and T.O.

[Roaming Lion]

Goede Morgen Nederlanders... Last things first, first things last... BRING WATER...LOTS OF WATER.. WATER WATER WATER.... You can buy ice at B.M. Now.. it's not "you'll" it's "Y'all".. (only important in the south,, never mind)...O.K.. You better check google maps and driving directions for travel times. You may want the intersate for that last bit. Lot's of the stuff you need can be boguht at the big two...Wallmart and Target..they are everyware here. Ariving late is a good way to not wait in line to long. Ariving in the dark is nice and cool but harder to find a camp spot (you can always move in th morning).
Hope to make it to Amsterdam before the tourist ban . Tot Ziens....Ray
P.S. look for Camp No Y.

[Elderberry]

Hey there, welcome to eplaya!

Have questions? Read this first: http://www.burningman.com/first_timers/
Everybody on eplaya is always excited to help first timers; but in sympathy for some of us old timers, please get your required reading out of the way before posting. As hard as it is to rein in the the excitement and enthusiasm, and as unbelievable as it might seem, most of your questions have already been asked and answered, if you just take a moment to read.

Now, let the adventure begin!

[funkyjigsaw]

Heya there!

I'm a fellow Virgin from the UK. I'm doing this alone, so face similar issues, but I'm not in a RV - I'm camping.
Fuck me! That is one hell of a road trip! I've done a lot of camping in the SW US, so know all those places well. I hope you are planning on being away for a month! Ha ha! Seriously though, that is one hell of a lot ...
I've also lived in San Francisco for 3 years, so I know how it all works in the US West Coast.
You will have no problem getting food and water on the way.

I would bring your crazy clothes / outfits from Holland, and just suck up the extra baggage fees. You don't know if you will be able to get what you want on your way in the US - in fact I'm pretty sure you won't. And you might as well pack the LEDs and EL wire as well while you are at it. I think you'd be taking a big risk if you planned on buying this stuff on your way across the desert! just a thought ... I could be wrong.

From what I know, you will need much more than a small tent for shade. I'm still thinking this through myself, but I know I'm gonna have to make the investment and then leave it behind or gift it away. But seriously, a small tent for shade will not do.

Like I said, I'm a virgin too, so I could be talking out of my ass!!

F xx

[burnin]

Roaming lion, jkisha and funkyjigsaw,
tx y'all,
Jkisha, I did do all the reading but believe me. Most things are written from a "being a person living in the states" point of view.
For example: From the BM guide I got the impression that the RV will be directed to a certain spot to park. In other words: we are not free to choose our own place. Is it indeed difficult to find a place in the dark? Is it possible to wait till dawn?
Just a few questions that keep unanswered to me even when I read the BM guide.
Bringing water will be no problem. Room enough in the RV. We reckon to bring about 300 liter for the three of us plus a 250 liter clearwater in the RV tank.
Of course we will buy some coolboxes to put the ice in to keep the drinks cool for burners visiting.
The shade issue is keeping me awake. The RV comes without an awning. You see, we can't take 3x3 mtr rebar from holland and a 20 square meter shadow cloth. We simply have to buy this in the states. Will the RV's maybe be parked this close next to each other that its possible to fix the cloth to the neighboring RV's?
So Jkisha please give us your best shot: how can we provide for sufficient shadow if we have our RV parked and no possibility exists to connect the shadowcloth to another RV?
Where can we get the wright stuff?
We stay in the states for 20 days. We arrive on the 20th of august and the RV pickup is on monday aug. 22d. So we have at least 6 days to buy stuff and prepare for BM. Water and liquor will be no problem. Neither will be the bikes. We will buy bikes on the first day of our stay because we will definitely need them. But how to get the stuff to make the bikes BM acceptable. We cannot have this stuff delivered to us in Holland. So maybe bring it from home?
Can you imagine us bringing a glue pistol into the states?
We will use the empty water cans to collect grey water and natural fluids as much as possible. And their is a possibility to get rid of that stuff in the sanitation departement. So that is no issue.
We will buy the proper carbage backs to save up our litter without being bathered by the smell. no issue.
I read the part about the extra jerrycans with fuel. Cans filled with more than 20 gallons must be stored at least 10 meter(30 ft) away from the RV. Do we have that much space?

Okay Y'all looking forward to your reactions and don't forget! We will meet soon and have a lot of fun,
KC. Tommaz and T.O.

[burnin]

Goede Morgen Nederlanders... Last things first, first things last... BRING WATER...LOTS OF WATER.. WATER WATER WATER.... You can buy ice at B.M. Now.. it's not "you'll" it's "Y'all".. (only important in the south,, never mind)...O.K.. You better check google maps and driving directions for travel times. You may want the intersate for that last bit. Lot's of the stuff you need can be boguht at the big two...Wallmart and Target..they are everyware here. Ariving late is a good way to not wait in line to long. Ariving in the dark is nice and cool but harder to find a camp spot (you can always move in th morning).
Hope to make it to Amsterdam before the tourist ban . Tot Ziens....Ray
P.S. look for Camp No Y.

Hey Ray, how come you speak dutch?
Plan to get to Amsterdam? When?
We will visit camp Y if we can find it.

Dear Burners,
Any tips for the rest of our trip?
What things best to do in SF

hearing from you

KC Tommaz and T.O.

[funkyjigsaw]

Hi again KC, T, TO.

I am so totally with you on the comparative lack of good advice for burners arriving from overseas. HOWEVER, this is only understandable I guess. Also, I think it's only an issue if you are NOT joining a camp.

I agree with you on the shade structure issue. I haven't yet decided what to do. My choices are (1) Buy a shelter like the Kelty Shadehouse (http://www.rei.com/product/808951/kelty ... ouse-large); or (2) Buy some poles and a tarp and some rope. In either case, you will have to buy some rebar. I'm probably going to go with the poles/tarp/rope option ... IF I can find somewhere to buy it in San Francisco. If I can't manage that, I will just have to buy a ready made one like the Kelty. Now ... I'm not an RV person, but I think you can anchor one side of a tarp to your RV somehow. The other side will have to be on posts/rope/rebar. I don't think you can rely on another RV being right where you want it! I'm sure you can get a lot of stuff in Reno or Las Vegas. If you plan to skip Reno, because you are coming from the other direction, then I'd advise to do some research on where to get this stuff in Las Vegas. It's a bitch, and it's giving me a headache too!

Just a comment : You are planning to pack in a lot in your 6 days before BM (Zion, Bryce, Lake Powell, Antilope Canyon, Mesas, Monument Valley, Arches) ... and on top of that prepare for BM! But hey! Go for it!

Same comment as before re the bikes ... I'm gonna buy it all in the US.

I have 2 days in San Francisco to prepare all this ... and I'm worried I'm gonna fit it in!

Oh yes ... places to see in San Francisco / Bay Area : Alcatraz, the Wine region/Napa (usually a day trip), Monterey Peninsula/Carmel/Monterey Bay Aquarium (cool)(usually a day trip), drive over the Golden gate bridge, best thing to do in San Fran = eat & drink & party!, Chinatown, Fisherman's Wharf, ride on the cable cars, Lombard street, boat ride to Sausalito ... fuck it! I dunno what you like doing!

Cheers, Funx.

[burnin]

Thanx Funx

Relax and we will all get it done.

KC Tommaz and T.O.

[Elderberry]

Roaming lion, jkisha and funkyjigsaw,
tx y'all,
Jkisha, I did do all the reading but believe me. Most things are written from a "being a person living in the states" point of view.
For example: From the BM guide I got the impression that the RV will be directed to a certain spot to park. In other words: we are not free to choose our own place. Is it indeed difficult to find a place in the dark? Is it possible to wait till dawn?
Just a few questions that keep unanswered to me even when I read the BM guide.
Bringing water will be no problem. Room enough in the RV. We reckon to bring about 300 liter for the three of us plus a 250 liter clearwater in the RV tank.
Of course we will buy some coolboxes to put the ice in to keep the drinks cool for burners visiting.
The shade issue is keeping me awake. The RV comes without an awning. You see, we can't take 3x3 mtr rebar from holland and a 20 square meter shadow cloth. We simply have to buy this in the states. Will the RV's maybe be parked this close next to each other that its possible to fix the cloth to the neighboring RV's?
So Jkisha please give us your best shot: how can we provide for sufficient shadow if we have our RV parked and no possibility exists to connect the shadowcloth to another RV?
Where can we get the wright stuff?
We stay in the states for 20 days. We arrive on the 20th of august and the RV pickup is on monday aug. 22d. So we have at least 6 days to buy stuff and prepare for BM. Water and liquor will be no problem. Neither will be the bikes. We will buy bikes on the first day of our stay because we will definitely need them. But how to get the stuff to make the bikes BM acceptable. We cannot have this stuff delivered to us in Holland. So maybe bring it from home?
Can you imagine us bringing a glue pistol into the states?
We will use the empty water cans to collect grey water and natural fluids as much as possible. And their is a possibility to get rid of that stuff in the sanitation departement. So that is no issue.
We will buy the proper carbage backs to save up our litter without being bathered by the smell. no issue.
I read the part about the extra jerrycans with fuel. Cans filled with more than 20 gallons must be stored at least 10 meter(30 ft) away from the RV. Do we have that much space?

Okay Y'all looking forward to your reactions and don't forget! We will meet soon and have a lot of fun,
KC. Tommaz and T.O.

I have always camped with a theme camp, and we 'place' the RVs within our camp. But I don't believe there is any special area for RVs in the unassigned spaces. You can pretty much park anywhere you like in the non-theme camp areas. Yes, it is sometimes difficult to choose the best space and setup at night, but being that you are in an RV, you can probably just pull in and park anywhere and take a nap until morning to find your space. Don't part on the roads, of course.

Regarding your shade structure (shadow ), there are places along the way for you to buy a suitable structure. I'm from Los Angeles and not familiar with the locations of stores in the areas that you will be traveling through, but I would do a search on eplaya for "shade" or "shade structure" as it has been addressed many times. Also Google search for locations of stores like Super Walmart, REI, Costco (membership required) and other searches like "sporting goods".

I'm sure others will be posting on this thread with additional information as well.

[Roaming Lion]

The awnings on R.V.s are not always that strong. Even these should be tied down. If it rips you will have to pay for it. Re-bar is cheap and the most popular place for building supplies is called Home Depot..(it's the wallmart of building stores). But you can make a bigger and stronger one with a few posts and tie dawns and a HEAVY DUTY tarp... Funky Jigsaw: the kelty Shade house looks nice but for that money you can build something way bigger (and fit more naked people in it)..It's hard comming from over seas but still try to think D.I.Y. (do it yourself) as much as possible. ... Burnin: My parents are Dutch and I lived in Oisterwijk N.B. for a few years as a teen. Hope to visit before the new year.

Ray

[dragonpilot]

RVs are free to park and camp anywhere that is not claimed by a theme camp. There is no special RV park...altho some people wish there was...mostly the ones that can't afford an RV.

[dragonpilot]

But how to get the stuff to make the bikes BM acceptable. We cannot have this stuff delivered to us in Holland. So maybe bring it from home?
Can you imagine us bringing a glue pistol into the states?
We will use the empty water cans to collect grey water and natural fluids as much as possible. And their is a possibility to get rid of that stuff in the sanitation departement.
We will buy the proper carbage backs to save up our litter without being bathered by the smell. no issue.
I read the part about the extra jerrycans with fuel. Cans filled with more than 20 gallons must be stored at least 10 meter(30 ft) away from the RV. Do we have that much space?

While you are shopping go to a party supply store and buy things that don't require gluing.If you must have a glue gun they are not that expensive at Michael's Art Supplies

Although it is possible to arrange a pump out of your RV holding tanks, don't count on it. Avoid using the toilet aboard the RV and use the camp's toilets. If you overfill your black water tanks in the RV you are in for big stinky trouble. Also, use the shower very sparingly...same thing about overfilling the holding tank.

Use 13 gallon kitchen garbage bags...not huge leaf bags. When the bag is 3/4 filled, tie the top closed and store it outside under the RV. Flatten empty plastic water containers and place them in a separate kitchen bag. Load them back in the RV on the day you leave.

Pour the gas in the gerry cans into the fuel tank soon after you arrive. You'll have to use the gas eventually, and your final drive to the playa plus waiting in line and running the generator will use up enough gas so there's room in the fuel tank...this way you don't have to worry about gas storage or danger.

[theCryptofishist]

Don't use a glue gun. Things get hot enough that the glue will get soft. Wire. 2-hour epoxy. Goop.

[funkyjigsaw]

To Roaming Lion : Absolutely yes I will try and DIY the shade structure!! Will only buy one off the shelf if I fail ...

[burnin]

"Hey listen everybody...especialy you girls"

Great tips. Life is lot easier now!

Will enter the city and at dawn find a nice place to park.
Will fill up the fuel tank with the fuel from the gerrycans.
Make crazy bikes
For shadow we 'd best visit a shadowy theme camp.
Hey Ray, Oisterwijk Wauuh for the best furniture isn't it?
Looking forward to meet y'all (won't forget this no more)

KC Tommaz T.O.

[Savannah]

Hi KC, Tommaz and T.O. ! Welcome to the board.

Here's my favorite ePlaya thread for RV users.

Exp. RVers: Suggestions for House rules for renting an RV
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=34551

[Roaming Lion]

LOL...My dad used to import furniture from oisterwijk to america. I forgot all about that...

[burnin]

Hello Savannah,
I have read it before and it remains interesting and disquiting.

Slowly but surely:

Because we are 3 persons in a big RV I do not expect big social disaster. Waterproblems can occur but I hope we can have a refill midweeks.
We know now that we must make sure to park as such that the water truck can reach us.
We will bring two 6 gallon jerrycans of spare fuel. We will leave fernley with a full tank. The ride inclusive the line up will take at least 12 gallons.
Having parked the RV I will replenish the fuel tank and thus solve the safety problems with the spare fuel.
Question: is it allowed to take spare fuel from Gerlach to BM in the shuttle bus in case of running out of fuel?

If possible we will buy a genuine shade cloth and make sure we can also close the walls in order to create some dust protection.
We want to create a frame of plastic pipes used in electrical installations.
The still full 10 liter fresh water containers will be used as stabilizers for the shade structure.
Since we bring 300 liter fresh water among which at least 15 10 liter containers we have 150 kilo of stabilizing weight.
we will buy a couple of airbeds or some adjustable sunchairs.
Question: do we still need rebar? Anybody experience with a plastic pipe frame?

we will bring a duster
we will bring plywood for the stabilizer pads
we will buy some cheap sheets to cover the beds and sofas.


Cooking in a RV is not my piece of cake.
Any tip on cooking or to bring along food will be appreciated.
Spaghetti bolognaise
Hamburger from the microwave
Tincanned food like????

Hey Ray. You do know some concrete was poured into that furniture do you?

49 days to go!

KC Tommaz and T.O

[Savannah]

Waterproblems can occur but I hope we can have a refill midweeks.
We know now that we must make sure to park as such that the water truck can reach us.

Bring all the drinking and showering water you are going to need--1.5 gallons per person per day. Water trucks at the event are spraying non-drinkable water on the street to keep the dust down. They do not sell clean water. (There are a few water trucks that service Medical, Fire and other big places, but they don't usually sell to RVs or campers! I have heard of it happening only once or twice; maybe a driver had extra.)

You can schedule your grey water to be pumped, or flag down the RV pump trucks, and yes--park your RV in such a way that the right areas are accessible from the street.
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=39108

You're starting to get into questions that are answered in the Q&A Tips & Tricks forum. Food, for example. There are many food threads. Here's my favorite trick for searching eplaya (whose search feature is imperfect): using google. Type: food eplaya into google. My favorite food thread is Realistic non-cooler based menu planning:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=35430

[marck]

Question: do we still need rebar? Anybody experience with a plastic pipe frame?

Take a look at photos of the previous Burning Man years to get a better idea of how other people are camping.

Any structure you build should be securely fastened to the ground or other relatively unmovable object.
The winds can get to more than 60 mph(95 kph), so using rebar is always a good idea.


Also a good rule of thumb is 15 liters of water per person, per day.

[illy dilly]

We reckon to bring about 300 liter for the three of us plus a 250 liter clearwater in the RV tank.

Welcome to eplaya!
Correct me if I am wrong, but 300 liters is about 78 gallons of water correct? and 250 liters is about 65 gallons, correct?
So you will be bringing, 143 gallons of water for 3 people for 7 days in the desert. That is about 6.8 gallons per day per person. That is a lot of water. Our RV has a 100 gallon fresh water tank, or about 380 liters. Last year that was plenty for me and my three camp mates.
I would recomend buying a couple of these blue water jugs from walmart in Fernley.
Fill them up in Gerlach, where they sell very clean fresh water. Also, fill up the RV fresh water tank here. Then you will have plenty of water, as long as you do not take long showers. And you know that you cannot wash dishes in an RV sink like you can at home. Water has to only turn on for very short time. Think about maybe getting paper plates. Paper plates can be burned.

[burnin]

Hello Illydilly

We do get several different specs about our RV. The one says 50 gallons of fresh water, the other 65 and so on.
I thought our RV could bring 65 gallons fresh water in the the tank. We do not plan to drink this water but use it to do some washing etc.

The 300 liters I talk about is the water we want to bring in containers to drink and as a spare.

It is advised to have at least 1,5 gallon p.p.p.d
When we use 2 gallons a day per person it will take 42 gallons in 7 days= ca. 160 liter.
The other 140 liter is to use for a quick solar shower or eventually to fill up the fresh water tank.

But indeed I think we can do with less. We will see what the RV can carry.

The tip about the aqua tainer is usefull.

Then we can take in fresh water when it is needed so we do not carry the heavy load.
Furthermore these aqua tainers look more suited to be used as a natural liquid/grey water receptible.

TX KC Tommaz and T.O.

[burnin]

Hello Marck,

15 liter a day p.p. = 7x45=315 liter.

This will probably include a small dishwas, a solar shower etc.

Anyway, like said many times before: be sure to bring enough water!

we will.

KC. Tommaz and T.O.

[marck]

That's 10 liters per day just for drinking, minimum, and remember to drink it. The arid climate will dehydrate you much quicker than you will realize. If your activity level is high, then you will need to remember to drink more.

The last thing you will want to do is lose a day or more of adventure because you need to be re-hydrated by medical, or find yourself in a hospital 100 miles from BRC.

[illy dilly]

Awesome Burnin!
Sounds like you have a plan.
Keep in mind that on most RV's the Black Water and Grey Water tanks are smaller than the fresh water. Often a 50/50 split. The problem we ran into last year, was that our Grey water is only 48 gallons, but we took 100 gallons of fresh water, and only used the toilet very rarely. By the end of the week, we were dumping dirty dish water in the toilet, since the black water was only a 1/4 of the way full and grey water was at 3/4 full.
Our rule of thumb,
NEVER LET THE DIRTY WATER TANKS GET OVER 3/4 FULL.

[Savannah]

There's so much to know about RV travel! Even as I'm being slowly educated on the subject for the inevitable RV stay (as I'm sure I will one day attempt) it also helps me remain grateful to be a tent person.

[illy dilly]

True, tent is easy. BED+TENT= Done.
Though with tent sleeping there comes other issues.
Water transportation. Its heavy and if your vehicle is already pretty full, it could put a lot of strain the truck.
Dirty water. Pretty easy for one person to deal with, but for 4 people it can become another chore.
Cold Food. Yeah pretty much just coolers take care of that.
Transporting your gear. Its all built into the RV.

But Savannah, I'm very much in the same school of thought as you.
Before last year the idea of taking an RV was fucking ridiculous. Burning Man wasn't about staying in an RV, its about camping. Plus there is all the hassle that goes with RV's.
So I told my sister that. She said she was down, then about 30-45 days before we hit the road she tells me, "Guess what, I'm buying an RV."

[burnin]

Hey Y'all ( I f.. like that start),

We do have the RV because we are also travelling the week before and some days after BM.
For us coming from europe it would be a lot of hassle to want to go to BM in a tent.
On the other hand, reading my postings, we are gonna built a tent after all!
One cannot sit in the RV all day. It will be bloody hot inside and we do not want to have the gen running 12 hours.
This talking with you all has made things a lot clearer and now indeed I dare say: we have a plan.
But you know what John Lennon said: Life is whats happening to you while you're busy making other plans.
Lets hope John is wright.
Bm is not too much about planning. We'll make it anyhow!

40 days to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

KC. Tommaz and T.O

[illy dilly]

Hey Y'all ( I f.. like that start),

We do have the RV because we are also travelling the week before and some days after BM.
For us coming from europe it would be a lot of hassle to want to go to BM in a tent.
On the other hand, reading my postings, we are gonna built a tent after all!
One cannot sit in the RV all day. It will be bloody hot inside and we do not want to have the gen running 12 hours.
This talking with you all has made things a lot clearer and now indeed I dare say: we have a plan.
But you know what John Lennon said: Life is whats happening to you while you're busy making other plans.
Lets hope John is wright.
Bm is not too much about planning. We'll make it anyhow!

40 days to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

KC. Tommaz and T.O

Good call!
I agree trying to tent camp from another country would be "bloody difficult".

I figure Bman planning this way: Plan to get there, Plan HOW to get there, Plan to drink water, Plan to eat, Plan how to eat. Once you're past greeters, planning should stop.

[geospyder]

Goede Morgen...

Click on the following link to get an idea what you are getting yourself into

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/66285/

Tot ziens op de Playa