Project Megapixels

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Would you participate?

Yes, I'll bring a square or 10
51
43%
Yes, I'll bring a square or 10
51
43%
No, I'll be too stoned to even remember to bring my tent.
2
2%
No, I'll be too stoned to even remember to bring my tent.
2
2%
I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about.
6
5%
I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about.
6
5%
 
Total votes: 118

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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:56 pm

Yeah, I hate to waste it too. Even though I enjoy a good fire every September, I cringe when I see so much raw materials go up in smoke, myself. I’m a waste not, want not kind of guy.

As to folding under the cut edge... brilliant!!!

Reuse ideas... sew them into blankets? Sarongs? I’m thinking I could find a use for whatever pixels I brought, anyway.

Fabrics are great stuff to have hanging around...
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Eric
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Post by Eric » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:00 pm

Brainstorming:

Why have it on the open playa?

If it's truly being designed to be a treat from the air (or the Ladder, if it comes out again), why not have it in the city? If you look at the size of your original idea on the satellite image, you'll notice it's about the depth of a city block. If it can be worked out with the BMorg & the occupants of the theme camps of part of one block, the image can be affixed to the tops of the structures. Maybe integrate it with one of the villages represented heavily on ePlaya (Apokiliptika comes to mind)?

This would deal with the worries about the image getting trashed, and would hopefully give some stable structure to attach the pixels to- especially if it's worked out in advance with a village.

Back to sorting my damn photos...
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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:01 am

diane o'thirst wrote:How about donating the squares to a quilt project?
I'd love to. Do you know of one that needs this much material? Feel free to look into it if you have any leads.

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:11 am

Eric wrote:Brainstorming:

Why have it on the open playa?

If it's truly being designed to be a treat from the air (or the Ladder, if it comes out again), why not have it in the city? If you look at the size of your original idea on the satellite image, you'll notice it's about the depth of a city block. If it can be worked out with the BMorg & the occupants of the theme camps of part of one block, the image can be affixed to the tops of the structures. Maybe integrate it with one of the villages represented heavily on ePlaya (Apokiliptika comes to mind)?

This would deal with the worries about the image getting trashed, and would hopefully give some stable structure to attach the pixels to- especially if it's worked out in advance with a village.

Back to sorting my damn photos...
Might be workable. The issue I can see with it is this: if the pieces are coming in all week long and being attached the the grid, how do we work around the ground clutter? This might be doable if someone were collecting all the pieces in advance and wanted to put it all together beforehand, but when I realized what a large amount of stuff we're talking about, I knew it couldn't be me. In total we're talking about at least 3,000 kg, probably more if we're talking about a structure that will need poles, stakes and lots of guy wires. On the positive side it would provide shade to a very large area. I for one have never had a shade canopy over my tent and am looking forward to having one next year so I can sleep in a bit. I'm pretty sure I'll camp at the piece, wherever it is, and raise at least a corner to shade my tent.

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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:13 am

Great concept! I'm on board...

Some additional thoughts...

most fabric in the states is sold by the yard, which is a few inches less than a meter. If the squares are 1 meter each, then alot of fabric will be wasted ($$$). Perhaps 1 yard squares (that way meter fabric can be trimmed to match)?

If you really wanted to go crazy, you might be able to get some scrap cardboard boxes from a bad run (this would take a relationship with a corrugator box plant, but is possible). Each face gets painted a different color. Then rotate the boxes to get different images. Could have 6 different images that way, but lots more material (but at least it would all burn!)

A 50 yard x 50 yard image would take 1/4 the logistics and resources, but probably still be very visible....you also could make each 1 yard square have four colored sections to get twice the resolution (back to a 100x100 image). What is the max. resolution for this satellite?

Dust blowing over the images may be an issue. Maybe bring a broom or leaf blower to clean them after a storm.

You may want to bring some extra cloth and paint for the inevitable no shows...
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:24 am

dragonfly Jafe wrote:Great concept! I'm on board...

Some additional thoughts...

most fabric in the states is sold by the yard, which is a few inches less than a meter. If the squares are 1 meter each, then alot of fabric will be wasted ($$$). Perhaps 1 yard squares (that way meter fabric can be trimmed to match)?
Actually the typical width is either 44 inches or 60 inches depending on the fabric. I'm leaning toward asking people to bring 44 inch squares to give us extra fabric to fold over
If you really wanted to go crazy, you might be able to get some scrap cardboard boxes from a bad run (this would take a relationship with a corrugator box plant, but is possible). Each face gets painted a different color. Then rotate the boxes to get different images. Could have 6 different images that way, but lots more material (but at least it would all burn!)
hmm...interesting. However, there will only be one photo taken (at least from the satellite, so having multiple images would only be good for planes.)
A 50 yard x 50 yard image would take 1/4 the logistics and resources, but probably still be very visible....you also could make each 1 yard square have four colored sections to get twice the resolution (back to a 100x100 image). What is the max. resolution for this satellite?
The resolution is 1 meter in black and white and 4 meters in color (though they do seem to offer some sort of premium service that is 2 meter color. Yes, a 50x50 would be much less work, but is also a much smaller image and I think even 100x100 is going to be small in the end.
Dust blowing over the images may be an issue. Maybe bring a broom or leaf blower to clean them after a storm.
Leaf blower for sure. I can't imagine brooming off 10,000 sq meters
You may want to bring some extra cloth and paint for the inevitable no shows...
Actually I was thinking of doing what airlines do, overbook. This is especially critical for colors that we might only have a few of. If we end up with extras we can put them around the border. Missing pixels in the midst of the image might not be too bad. Especially if we spread them around.

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regionalchaos
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Post by regionalchaos » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:52 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:Hey, Regional Chaos: I was just over at the JoAnn's Fabric on River Road tonight. Go to the back wall and there's all kinds of cotton fabrics for $2 - $5 a yard.
Not bad. Have you been out to Econo Sales in Springfield? Thats where I got some cheap wool for a project last year. I'll be hitting that place up for sure before I head back out.

Mozy bonz
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Post by Mozy bonz » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:35 pm

domes for the under Structure 10'x10' grid on top.
Image

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Post by Mozy bonz » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:35 am

Image
Image
Image

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:10 am

Interesting graphics Mozy. I wish I had the skills to do that.

Anyway, what I really need to do pretty soon is get a web site going to point people to. Maybe this weekend. I'm somewhat tempted to put up a forum there, but hate the fact that this is already factioned between the ePlaya and the 3playa.

Anyway, I'm working on that end of things. I have a PC setup at home that is almost ready to go, maybe this weekend.

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:18 am

Wherever you decide to take it, good luck.

I just thank you for posting it here because it gives newbs an insight into the process, and helps them understand the larger picture of art and burningman.

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:21 pm

I played a bit in Second Life. The grid is around 40 wide by 20, which is the biggest object I can create with a free account.

Image

Crap...conversion weirdness. BMP files located here:

http://ucomm.wayne.edu/~dan/images/grid_001.bmp
http://ucomm.wayne.edu/~dan/images/grid_002.bmp
http://ucomm.wayne.edu/~dan/images/grid_003.bmp

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Post by Mozy bonz » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:41 pm

eric said the occupants of the a theme camp as part of one block, the image can be affixed to the tops of the structures.
made me think strong.


if there where a grid of domes steel cables between tops of domes to make a large grid then fill in with small grids. less poles, lighting,ect.
some place to stash shit or no skin on some or most of the domes.


Eric>>hopefully give some stable structure to attach the pixels to

dome is very strong and it adds an art look to the base.


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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:53 pm

Hmmm....let's think. We need to support at least 3,000 kilos. We would need a lot of really good steel cable. 500 meters to handle the outer edges and then another 400 to go across the middle from one dome to the other (allowing for tie downs at both ends). The domes will have to be really well built and really well secured to the ground because this thing will catch wind and want to take the domes for a ride.

If this is up in the air at least 2 meters, how would you propose to attach the panels?

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regionalchaos
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Post by regionalchaos » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:06 pm

I think you are better off with the cloth on the ground, or raised slightly above the ground (1-2 ft). Maybe stick a section of rebar every 5 pixels or so, and run some twine or parachute cord between them. The dome and large shade structure ideas seem great, but seem to increase the complexity of the project by almost double...

Also, I don't know what you had envisioned, but I liked the idea of people who brought the pixels being the ones to put them in place. People bringing pixels could talk to a coordinator who has a map and can give people grid locations for their pixels. It seems like it would feel more participatory that way. (I don't know if this is what you had already intended).

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Post by Mozy bonz » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:07 pm

Maybe someone can do the math for weight of dome to the sail lift the grid would make. With in the large grid you have a small grid that can be brought down for repair or new add on.. like the panels I have seen in pictures of center camp.

Image

Image

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Post by Mozy bonz » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:17 pm

they could be small domes 10' or less tall guide lines in side the dome. more distance between poles very stable. more space for people. only need to light the domes and the out side of the grid.

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:34 pm

Raising the structure for Center Camp is not a trivial effort. I agree with regionalchaos that this more than doubles the work involved. I, for one, am not interested in putting that much time and effort into it. If you guys want to carry on with that, feel free. My assumption, for the moment, is that this will be ground based.

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Post by Mozy bonz » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:45 pm

Ok…. I will just be sitting over here... while the grownups are talking. I know when to shut up. Mozy goes back to sit at the kids table. man I thought I had it! :)

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:50 pm

Mozy...I'm not trying to make you feel bad. Like I said, I'm happy to incorporate this into the big picture (pun intended) if it can be made to work and if a crew can be found to do it. I've been involved in raising structures out there (Roaster Coaster in 04 and the Windmills last year), neither of which are on this scale, and I just don't want to do it again. Hell, I'm thinking I'm crazy enough just to consider organizing the construction of a 10,000 piece artwork.

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Post by Mozy bonz » Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:00 pm

I don't feel bad I have full respect for what is being said.
I have never put up a dome this is all theory for me. And I said it with a smile so it’s ok. It’s only my humor.
This is how we make this thing work by talking about it.

and I will put in my 2 cents when I make some cents :lol:

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:20 pm

I've put a web site up as a start on my server at

http://www.sputnik.name

As soon as we come up with a better name I'll change it.

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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:45 pm

Ok... got it bookmarked.
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Mozy bonz
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Post by Mozy bonz » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:20 am

got it sput! let me know if I can do anything to help with the site.

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:40 am

Gah...between posting in my journal and working on the site, I forgot to put anything here.

Help. Yes, help would be wonderful. I am looking for someone who has some programming skills to build the part of the site that will handle participant registration and pixel assignment. I can probably manage something by myself by January, but maybe someone else can do it faster. We'd need to talk about what I think needs to happen.

Site design work. What is up there right now is pretty crappy looking since all I did was take my proposal document and stuff it up there. I like the look of sites that have all the main page info in one place. So here is an example of what I put together. Not the greatest, but it's where my head is right now:

http://www.sputnik.name/gridwords.png

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regionalchaos
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Post by regionalchaos » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:35 pm

I might be able to help take care of some of the programming stuff for the sign up process, but we would need to have a good understanding of what is needed.

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:52 pm

Definately. I'll PM you and then we can offline talk about what I'm thinking of.

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allo

Post by Lysergic » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:00 am

I really dig the idea, and if I can be of any help I will, if you need some help putting together the website I'm learning photoshop so I might be able to add some color to it...mostly I'm concerned though with the logistics, in particular how to keep the wind and people from destroying it and make it appealing to the ground peepz as well as air peepz. Anyway I'll be checking back to see the progress. Best of luck!
Doubt everything. Find your own light.
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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:17 am

Hi Lysergic. Photoshop help would be great. I'd like to have an example of what this would like like from 20 or 30 feet in the air with the playa and mountains. Not sure if you're up to that yet or not, if anyone else watching this thread can do something like that, that would be great. My feeble attempts are not doing much for me so far. Even an artists' drawing would be good. I'm really looking to get something done to scale and in perspective with people and objects of known size so people can get a feel for the scale of this.

RegionalChaos is helping with the web site from a technical perspective, but neither of us are web site designers. I put together an image that I was thinking as using for the main page with image mapping to let folks select where they want to go. It's below:

Image

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sputnik
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Re: allo

Post by sputnik » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:33 am

Lysergic wrote:I really dig the idea, and if I can be of any help I will, if you need some help putting together the website I'm learning photoshop so I might be able to add some color to it...mostly I'm concerned though with the logistics, in particular how to keep the wind and people from destroying it and make it appealing to the ground peepz as well as air peepz. Anyway I'll be checking back to see the progress. Best of luck!
Yeah, logistics are a bitch, but less so if someone or some small group doesn't have to order, cut and arrange all 10,000 pieces. That was my original idea, but I realized that doing it that way makes for little participant interaction, plus it means that all the work is on a small group. I want this project to work, or not, because everyone is excited about it. I really truely see us involving some large segment of the population. If 1,000 people help, then each only has to bring 10 pixels.

On the ground logistics are going to be tough too. I don't know the exact date that the flyover will occur, but it's possible that it will be as early as Wednesday (which would suck), but that would also give us a shot at Sunday. If it's Thursday or later we only have one shot. So that basically means we need solid committments for 75% of the pixels to be on site and installed by Wednesday night at the latest. Given that we can calculate the following

(WARNING: Scary numbers ahead)

Pixel count: 75% of 10000 = 7,500

Minutes of light to work in: 5 days @ 10 hours = 3,000

Thus, we need to install 2.5 pixels per minute starting on Saturday morning.

To get the entire image in place either means we have to do 3.3 pixels per minute or we need more time.

Obviously, the more people we have installing pixels, the better. If people install their own pixels we have a chance. It'll mean that we need to communicate how to install the pixels in advance so that we don't have to do it, or have to train people on site. We can affect this figure significantly if we can get regionals to commit to strips of 100 pixels that are pre-sewn together and attached as one piece in a relatively short period of time.

I hate it when I start to run figures like this because they can be discouraging.

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