ATTENTION CONSERVATIVES>>>ATTENTION COME HERE>&

[cowboyangel]

http://www.thislife.org/

Go to this link. Click on the show called "Swing Set". Sit back, relax, pour yourselves a drink and really listen. We love you. We may just be having a hard time with it now, well, at least you guys are burners......

[Simply Joel]

no CA, i am not going to invest my time in listening... i am going to bed.

yet before i go to bed, i must reinterate my position and share a little story...

i am going to continue to be a strong defense, less government guy that i am... and no, i am not happy with the current president's choices, but he played the people like fiddles... the whole morality thing blind-sided the democrats, and where i live, i saw it coming.

now onto my little story...

a secular member of my parent's school district was going to remove/omit an after-school stop at a local church that sponsored after school events for children. there is a state highway between the school and church and the majority of student's homes... the omission/removal was to reduce costs... my father and other people asked "what does the state statute say is legal... and no one could answer the question... so my father went to the website, located the appropriate state statute and began to read... the statute requires either a bus to ferry children across the state highway or provide crossing guards twice a day, each and every day of school... so, finally, after much discussion, amazingly enough the school board saw it in their infinite wisdom to resume the bus dropping the kids off at the church for the after-school program with adult supervision, as opposed to latch-key kids....

now, on a side note, as my father began discussing the statute with one of the school board members... the school board member said "well, i am not a lawyer" and my father countered saying "the law is written in english" the laws are out there, and can be read if people are willing to make the effort... and all the bellyaching in the world on the e-playa isn't going to change anything.


so, where i live, people like my parents believe they, as christians, are under attack, unprovoked attacks by secular thinking... it is that simple, convince them that their way of life isn't under attack from the left, and you might see a different outcome during the next election...

stay the course, as i have read on the e-playa today and countless days prior, and i doubt you will have many converts or at least empathetic listeners. and i am sure, some of you will say you don't care... fine by me, you have just made a choice.... be prepared for the consequences of your choices.

[cowboyangel]

afraid you might learn something about yourself?????

[samtzu]

Cowboy, you are as subtle as a sawed off shotgun...

[geekster]

I had an interesting experiance once. Several years ago I had the pleasure of being able to witness the annual Christmas parade in a small Southern Utah town. When it came time for the blessing of the town Christmas tree, I was quite surprised to see the local Episcopal minister presiding. In that case religion was used as a bonding experiance to bring the people of the town closer together and celebrate what they had in common rather than what their differences were. Diversity is wonderful but sometimes it can be divisive. It is nice sometimes when common ground can be found to bring a community together in fellowship.

As for your case about the school, yeah, some people are totally phobic when it comes to religion. The only thing the constitution says about religion is that Congress can't pass a law establishing one. How they could extrapolate that a bus can't drop kids off at a church from that, I have no clue. A schoolbus is not the Congress and a bus stop is not a law. It is sad, really. Totally sad.

[cowboyangel]

no CA, i am not going to invest my time in listening... i am going to bed.



so, where i live, people like my parents believe they, as christians, are under attack, unprovoked attacks by secular thinking... it is that simple, convince them that their way of life isn't under attack from the left, and you might see a different outcome during the next election...

stay the course, as i have read on the e-playa today and countless days prior, and i doubt you will have many converts or at least empathetic listeners. and i am sure, some of you will say you don't care... fine by me, you have just made a choice.... be prepared for the consequences of your choices.

Point taken, but the show is not what you think it is..it's about real people and the difficulty they have arriving at certain conclusions. Doctors and military personel are interviewed in the show...It really is a fine show without a hidden agenda, worth it for anyone of any religious or political persuasion to listen to. I think it's healthy to have your beliefs challenged by the way.....it's a test of just how strong you believe and how deep the beliefs go. Challenging belief is different from attacking belief, but the distinction often gets clouded. It's to America's ultimate advantage for it citizens to find ways of working together, rather than always opposing eachother....as a matter of fact, I think the Burning Man Festival is a great example of working together in peace and far out joy for a common goal and America has much to learn from Burning Man, indeed!

[cowboyangel]

thinking of Chris Sanders up there in the posts a little back........

By MADLEN READ, AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - The U.S. dollar fell to an all-time low against the euro Friday as European political leaders signaled they have no unified plan to stem the rise in the five-year-old currency used by 12 countries.

Currency traders shrugged off positive U.S. employment data that in other times has boosted interest in the dollar, which has been burdened by high oil prices and the U.S. budget deficit.

The euro reached a new high of $1.2962 Friday in late New York trading. It had reached its previous peak of $1.2927 in February. That means that each dollar now buys only about three quarters of a euro. When the shared currency was introduced in 1999 it was pegged at 1 to 1 against the dollar.

The Labor Department (news - web sites) reported Friday that October payrolls gained 337,000, and the failure of the currency market to react to the news shows the weakening dollar is a long-term trend, said Dan Katzive, foreign exchange strategist for UBS AG.

"It's a structural theme," Katzive said. "The price action today bore that out."

The dollar's decline cuts two ways for Americans: It's a shot in the arm for exporters like Caterpillar Inc., but it boosts the cost of European vacations and could lead to higher prices for goods imported from France, Germany, Italy and the other euro nations. U.S. companies such as Estee Lauder Cos., 3M Co., Avon Products Inc. and Samsonite Corp. have profited from a weak dollar.

In Europe, the stronger euro has raised fears that it will dampen what has been a moderate economic recovery because of a slowdown in exports. The euro is now 57 percent above its all-time low against the dollar of 82 cents from October, 2000.

French President Jacques Chirac said on Friday that he is "a little bit worried about the weakness of the dollar," and hinted the European Union (news - web sites) should take action. "This should provoke certain reactions on our part," he said during a summit of European leaders in Brussels.

But Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of Germany — whose economic recovery has been fueled by strong export growth — told reporters at the summit that he sees no reason for "serious concern," adding that the exchange rate "is not yet dramatic."

Analysts said that amounted to a green light for currency traders to press their bets because it is unlikely the Treasuries of those countries and the European Central Bank will intervene to reverse the euros rise.

Commerzbank economist Christoph Balz said he expected to see the euro hit $1.31 in the next couple of months, but to settle in the long-term. "The U.S. economy is stronger than people think, which will lead to higher interest rates and make the dollar more attractive," he said.

In addition, many analysts believe the Bush administration has deliberately sought a lower dollar in order to help U.S. exports.

The ECB has kept its key euro-zone interest rate unchanged for 17 consecutive months at 2 percent. Most analysts still bet the bank will not raise interest rates for several quarters.

After the ECB held rates steady at its meeting Thursday, bank president Jean-Claude Trichet declined to comment on the euro exchange rate, other than to warn that the bank didn't like sudden moves. "Excessive volatility and disorderly movements in exchange rates are undesirable for economic growth," he said.

The dollar fell broadly Friday against other major currencies. In late New York trading, the British pound was worth $1.8563, up from $1.8437 late Thursday. The dollar bought 105.65 yen, down from 106.08; 1.1776 Swiss francs, down from 1.1876; and 1.1976 Canadian dollars, down from 1.2072.

___

Associated Press Writer Matt Surman in Berlin contributed to this report.

[Simply Joel]

I had an interesting experiance once. Several years ago I had the pleasure of being able to witness the annual Christmas parade in a small Southern Utah town. When it came time for the blessing of the town Christmas tree, I was quite surprised to see the local Episcopal minister presiding. In that case religion was used as a bonding experiance to bring the people of the town closer together and celebrate what they had in common rather than what their differences were. Diversity is wonderful but sometimes it can be divisive. It is nice sometimes when common ground can be found to bring a community together in fellowship.

As for your case about the school, yeah, some people are totally phobic when it comes to religion. The only thing the constitution says about religion is that Congress can't pass a law establishing one. How they could extrapolate that a bus can't drop kids off at a church from that, I have no clue. A schoolbus is not the Congress and a bus stop is not a law. It is sad, really. Totally sad.

the reason cited for removing the stop at the church was saving money... however, the cost of the stop at the church juxtapositioned against the cost and effort to hire and supervise a crosswalk guard allowed the school board to see the least expensive workable option...

which has correlation with the saying "don't fix what is not broken"

and CA, regarding the fear of learning something about myself... after 5 years of instrospection atter the military, it is time to implement the lessons learned... as evidenced by those bowls you were gifted.

i embrace my old school conservatism (Goldwater & McCain), it isn't "neo-conservatism" 'cause i have always been this way.


and that statement transcends politics, ladies and gentlemen

[cowboyangel]

I learn stuff about myself too, I'm not an elitist, but do listen to the show when you get a chance, and I love your bowls and use them everyday!

[TheMuse]

http://notmypresident.tribe.net/

[cowboyangel]

Behold Conservatives what dark forces in your ranks are really up to...global instability...no problem ...''Islamo-fascism.''??? (I can't believe these guys!) no problem

Neo-Con Agenda: Iran, China, Russia, Latin America ...

Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON, Nov 5 (IPS) - An influential foreign-policy neo-conservative with longstanding ties to top hawks in the administration of President George W Bush has laid out what he calls ''a checklist of the work the world will demand of this president and his subordinates in a second term.''

The list, which begins with the destruction of Fallujah in Iraq and ends with the development of ''appropriate strategies'' for dealing with threats posed by China, Russia and ''the emergence of a number of aggressively anti-American regimes in Latin America,'' also calls for ''regime change'' in Iran and North Korea.

The list's author, Frank Gaffney, the founder and president of the Centre for Security Policy (CSP), also warns that Bush should resist any pressure arising from the anticipated demise of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat to resume peace talks that could result in Israel's giving up ''defensible boundaries.''

While all seven steps listed by Gaffney in an article published Friday morning in the 'National Review Online' have long been favoured by prominent neo-cons, the article itself, 'Worldwide Value', is the first comprehensive compilation to emerge since Bush's re-election Tuesday.

It is also sure to be contested, not just by Democrats who, with the election behind them, are poised to take a more anti-war position on Iraq, but by many conservative Republicans in Congress. They blame the neo-cons for failing to anticipate the quagmire in Iraq and worry their grander ambitions, like those expounded by Gaffney, will bankrupt the Treasury and break an already-overextended military.

Yet its importance as a road map of where neo-conservatives -- who, with the critical help of Vice President Dick Cheney and Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, dominated Bush's foreign policy after the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and the Pentagon -- want U.S. policy to go, was underlined by Gaffney's listing of the names of his friends in the administration who he said, ''helped the president imprint moral values on American security policy in a way and to an extent not seen since Ronald Reagan's first term.''

In addition to Cheney and Rumsfeld, he cited the most clearly identified -- and controversial -- neo-conservatives serving in the administration: Cheney's chief of staff, I Lewis ''Scooter'' Libby; his top Middle East advisors, John Hannah and David Wurmser; weapons proliferation specialist Robert Joseph and top Mideast aide Elliott Abrams, on the National Security Council (NSC).

Also on the roster are: Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz; Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith; Feith's top Mideast aide William Luti, in the Pentagon; Undersecretary for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, and for global issues, Paula Dobriansky at the State Department.

Virtually all of the same individuals have been cited by critics of the Iraq War, including Democratic lawmakers and retired senior foreign service and military officials, as responsible for hijacking the policy and intelligence process that led to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

Indeed, in a lengthy interview about the war on the most-watched public-affairs TV programme, '60 Minutes', last May, the former head of the U.S. Central Command and Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief Middle East envoy until 2003, retired Gen Anthony Zinni, called for the resignation of Libby, Abrams, Wolfowitz and Feith, as well as Rumsfeld, for their roles in the attack.

Zinni also cited former Defence Policy Board (DPB) chairman, Richard Perle, who has been close to Gaffney since both of them served, along with Abrams, in the office of Washington State Senator Henry M Jackson in the early 1970s.

When Perle became an assistant secretary of defence under Reagan he brought Gaffney along as his deputy. When Perle left in 1987, Gaffney succeeded him before setting up CSP in 1989.

As Perle's long-time protege and associate, Gaffney sits at the centre of a network of interlocking think tanks, foundations, lobby groups, arms manufacturers and individuals that constitute the coalition of neo-conservatives, aggressive nationalists like Cheney and Rumsfeld and Christian Right activists responsible for the unilateralist trajectory of U.S. foreign policy since 9/11.

Included among CSP's board of advisers over the years have been Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Christian moralist William Bennett, Abrams, Feith, Joseph, former United Nations Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick, former Navy Undersecretary John Lehman and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Director James Woolsey.

Woolsey also co-chairs the new Committee on the Present Danger (CPD), another prominent neo-con-led lobby group that argues Washington is now engaged in ''World War IV'' against ''Islamo-fascism.''

Also serving on its advisory council are executives from some of the country's largest military contractors, which -- along with wealthy individuals sympathetic to Israel's governing Likud Party, such as prominent New York investor Lawrence Kadish and California casino king Irving Moskowitz, and right-wing bodies, such as the Bradley, Sarah Scaife and Olin Foundations -- finance CSP's work.

Gaffney, a ubiquitous ''talking head'' on TV in the run-up to the war in Iraq, sits on the boards of CPD's parent organisations, the Foundation for the Defence of Democracies (FDD) and Americans for Victory Over Terrorism (AVOT). He was a charter associate, with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz and Abrams, of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), another prominent neo-conservative-led group that offered up a similar checklist of what Bush should do in the ''war on terrorism'' just nine days after the 9/11 attacks.

His article opens by trying to pre-empt an argument that is already being heard on the right against expanding Bush's ''war on terrorism'': that since a plurality of Bush voters identified ''moral values'' as their chief concern, the president should stick to his social conservative agenda rather than expand the war.

''The reality is that the same moral principles that underpinned the Bush appeal on 'values' issues like gay marriage, stem-cell research and the right to life were central to his vision of U.S. war aims and foreign policy,'' according to Gaffney.

''Indeed, the president laid claim squarely to the ultimate moral value -- freedom -- as the cornerstone of his strategy for defeating our Islamofascist enemies and their state sponsors, for whom that concept is utterly (sic) anathema.''

To be true to that commitment, policy in the second administration must be directed toward seven priorities, according to Gaffney, beginning with the ''reduction in detail of Fallujah and other safe havens utilised by freedom's enemies in Iraq''; followed by ''regime change -- one way or another -- in Iran and North Korea, the only hope for preventing these remaining 'Axis of Evil' states from fully realising their terrorist and nuclear ambitions.''

Third, the administration must provide ''the substantially increased resources needed to re-equip a transforming military and rebuild human-intelligence capabilities (minus, if at all possible, the sorts of intelligence 'reforms' contemplated pre-election that would make matters worse on this and other scores) while we fight World War IV, followed by enhancing ''protection of our homeland, including deploying effective missile defences at sea and in space, as well as ashore.”

Fifth, Washington must keep ''faith with Israel, whose destruction remains a priority for the same people who want to destroy us (and ... for our shared 'moral values) especially in the face of Yasser Arafat's demise and the inevitable, post-election pressure to 'solve' the Middle East problem by forcing the Israelis to abandon defensible boundaries.''

Sixth, the administration must deal with France and Germany and the dynamic that made them ''so problematic in the first term: namely, their willingness to make common cause with our enemies for profit and their desire to employ a united Europe and its new constitution -- as well as other international institutions and mechanisms -- to thwart the expansion and application of American power where deemed necessary by Washington.''

Finally, writes Gaffney, Bush must adapt ''appropriate strategies for contending with China's increasingly fascistic trade and military policies, (Russian President) Vladimir Putin's accelerating authoritarianism at home and aggressiveness toward the former Soviet republics, the worldwide spread of Islamofascism, and the emergence of a number of aggressively anti-American regimes in Latin America'', which he does not identify.

''These items do not represent some sort of neo-con 'imperialist' game plan'', Gaffney stressed. ''Rather, they constitute a checklist of the work the world will demand of this president and his subordinates in a second term.'' (END/2004) :

Copyright © 2004 IPS-Inter Press Service. All rights reserved.

[cowboyangel]

more......

Arma-geddon Sick of You



World to US as Americans prepare to level Fallujah



Daniel Patrick Welch



11/07/04 "ICH" Bush's Sword of Damocles is poised above the people and city of Fallujah , ready to wreak the pent-up wrath his addled brain thinks his tainted election victory permits. This is the bizarre world-in-a-bubble in which most Americans reside. With a chorus of Onward, Christian Soldiers and a vapid, cheerleading press, the crusade continues unabated, as the world's revulsion continues to grow.



True, Americans do have elections, and candidates often take different stances on important issues. But forget the blue state, red state diversion, an artifact of the US ' antiquated, slavery-era electoral system. In this winner-take-all distortion, geography itself is given animus, allowing for a host of mini-nationalisms to permeate fallacies about the American mentality. The fact is that Americans in “blue states” are also quite likely to have voted for Bush, and almost as many in “red states” will have voted for Kerry, the “left” candidate. Does this change anything? Well, add to this soup the fact that a hundred extra votes are sprinkled onto the electoral college recipe because of representation in the Senate, note that Wyoming and California both get two votes in this medieval “democracy,” and the distortion is complete. American Conservatism, albeit profound, is exaggerated, and Cheney's Corporate Crusaders march triumphantly on to a new wave of destruction.



Of course it is important not to forget the stench wafting from this rotten election. The American fascists, who already thought they had a mandate from God, now think they have one from the American people. Not that any true believer needs any imprimatur other than the former, but hey, it can't hurt. Fortunately, this emphasis on what The American People want is an obsession which all parties to the electoral sham have in common. For better and for worse, a mandate from the American People is tantamount to a call from God, so they are now free to level Fallujah and tick off the other targets on their wish list.



However, like true warriors, the election for these crazies is no more than a blip on the screen, a hiccup on the road to world domination. What is the true fascist reaction to the recent news that your invasion has killed 100,000? Why, to prepare to kill another hundred thousand, of course. Remember Kissinger's chilling exchange on the Nixon tapes where they casually discussed how many would die if they ordered the bombing of the dikes in the north of Vietnam : “…a few hundred thousand… That's a lot of people.”



So, while American voters fret and fuss over the tiny problem of whether or not the will of the people actually matters, plans are on track to snuff out the breath of the people by the thousands oh-so-far away. The indifference to this coming massacre is as brutal as it is astounding. It's no wonder that the more “esoteric” issue of depleted uranium dust doesn't register on the radar screens. Most Americans cant even muster the courage to say that the pending Fallujah massacre is wrong. A recent segment on NPR, that bastion of liberal media, had pundits discussing how best to incinerate a city of 300,000. Would air power be most efficient, or would house-to-house combat be necessary? Hmmm..now that's a puzzler!



Deaf to the coming terror for the residents of Fallujah, and blind to its inevitable consequences, we watch (or mostly, don't) as air strikes reduce the small Nazzal Emergency Hospital , run by a Saudi charity, to rubble. Insurgents strike back with a range of attacks across a wide swath of central Iraq , killing more than 30 and wounding almost 60 others, among them over 20 Americans.



A nervous habit of mine is to replay a song over and over in my head, like a musical worry stone. The past couple days it has been Bob Dylan's God On Our Side. And not for nothing. Some of the troops poised to pounce on Fallujah were praying to Jesus and playing Christian rock. Colonel Gary Brandl of the United States Marine Corps commented: 'The enemy has a face. It is Satan's. He is in Fallujah, and we are going to destroy him.'



The sheer terrifying stupidity of these commanders is reflected in the mentality of those up the chain (obviously—hence Gitmo and Abu Ghraib). A recent eye opener came from an interview of a Bush aide by Ron Suskind. The aide waxed philosophical about the great divide between those who make reality (Bush and his angels, I suppose), and those who simply study it. He actually used the term “reality-based community,” which I find pretty fitting and ironic in a strange way. I have always considered the fascist core of the Bush junta to be on the other side of a reality divide—I just didn't mean it in quite the same way.



It isn't really that funny, when you think about it. This is psychosis, a sort of mass hysteria which has sucked in tens of millions of Americans. The election, the votes, the campaign--it's all largely irrelevant anyway, to be perfectly honest—a colossal waste of time and money. Before a single vote was cast, the future of the US for the next generation had already been determined, not by the outcome of an election, but by the war in Iraq . This is still the focus of evil in the modern world, as Ronald Reagan might whisper from beyond the grave. Of course fraud matters. But we have to brace ourselves for the reality that the onslaught against Fallujah would be ready to go no matter who won. Majority and mandate are powerful weapons in the hands of the bullies; but how many fascists is few enough? Hitler only needed 30% to begin his slide into Armageddon.



And the Americans are already on their way. The slaughter at Fallujah will be a watershed event in the collapse of the American empire, echoing across the next hundred years. This is hardly hyperbole; the world is already sick of US arrogance and bullying. And it's about to get immeasurably worse….



Sometimes my habit goes into overdrive, and the songs form a medley in my head. Dylan asks “how many deaths will it take ‘til he knows…” An upswell of hope convinces me that we might still avoid the slide into hell that seems our due, and the Sandinista hymn reminds me: “Nuestro pueblo es el dueño de su historia/Architecto de su liberación.” It doesn't last long, and Paul Simon's cynical ballad brings me back to the “reality-based” community: “God bless the goods we were given/And God bless the US of A/God bless our standard of living/--Let's keep it that way/ Have a good tiiiiiime…”



© 2004 Daniel Patrick Welch. Reprint permission granted with credit and link to danielpwelch.com. Writer, singer, linguist and activist Daniel Patrick Welch lives and writes in Salem , Massachusetts , with his wife, Julia Nambalirwa-Lugudde. Together they run The Greenhouse School, www.greenhouseschool.org. Some of his articles have been broadcast on radio, and translations are available in up to 20 languages. Links to the website are appreciated at http://danielpwelch.com.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Information Clearing House has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is Information Clearing House endorsed or sponsored by the originator.)

[Simply Joel]

it would be helpful to the reader if you would distnguish between your words and the words of a re-printed article.

[cowboyangel]

> 17 Reasons Not to Slit Your Wrists...by Michael Moore
> >
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> > Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in,
> > let's, in the words of Monty Python, "always look on the bright side of
> > life!"
> > There IS some good news from Tuesday's election.
> >
> > Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:
> >
> > 1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.
> >
> > 2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
> > Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
> >
> > 3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young
> > adults (Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents
> > Are always wrong and you should never listen to them.
> >
> > 4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the
> > country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't
> > worthfighting (51%), and don't approve of the job George W. Bush is
> > doing
> > (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an
> > American
> > thing, like Pop Tarts.)
> >
> > 5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in
> > The Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack
> > the
> > Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats
> > Do their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.
> >
> > 6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the
> > birthplace of our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And
> > the whole West
> > Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh
> > water, all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or
> > bury them
> > in lava. And no more show tunes!
> >
> > 7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just
> > any old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous
> > nut. May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.
> >
> > 8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America
> > will no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long
> > time!
> > If you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be
> > truly
> > golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.
> >
> > 9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get
> > married in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding
> > gifts we won't have to buy now.
> >
> > 10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress,
> > including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good
> > To have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our
> > candidates can't.
> >
> > 11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!
> >
> > 12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.
> >
> > 13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at
> > least 3 chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled
> > state
> > legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into
> > the 2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53
> > chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control
> > 47 chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1
> > chamber (Montana House) is still undecided.
> >
> > 14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment
> > than the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here
> > on
> > out -- and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all
> > the
> > hard work that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last
> > month
> > in 12th grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps
> > he'll
> > treat the next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more
> > time at the ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's
> > already
> > Proved his point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.
> >
> > 15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a
> > very dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following
> > two
> > scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to
> > the Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in
> > His ear that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy"
> > so
> > that history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not
> > push
> > for too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky
> > and
> > arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such
> > major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from
> > office.
> >
> > 16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of
> > voting age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a
> > landslide
> > -- it means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had
> > 58
> > yards to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down
> > 55 of
> > those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball
> > and go home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on
> > the
> > three yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports
> > analogies are
> > coming!!!
> >
> > 17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for
> > the candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than
> > the
> > total number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or
> > Gore.
> > Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are
> > looking for a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were,
> > for the
> > first time since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal.
> > The
> > country has always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news.
> > What IS
> > news is that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal.
> > In
> > fact, that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media,
> > the ones who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth
> > about
> > November 2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the
> > element of surprise in 2008.
> >
> > Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My
> > Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such
> > A wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"
> >
> > But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Michael Moore

[Captain Goddammit]

Hey Cowpoke Angel and the rest of you bleeding-heart liberal people...
You guys keep insinuating that anyone who isn't a democrat is an idiot...

Whatever, genius.

[cowboyangel]

Hey Cowpoke Angel and the rest of you bleeding-heart liberal people...
You guys keep insinuating that anyone who isn't a democrat is an idiot...

Whatever, genius.

now captain you know it ain't so.... I personally love Joel. I tollerate Geekster, Mom and Dad are conservarives. and you...I'd, i'd tip a tall one with ya anyday!

[Simply Joel]

OLBERMANN CAN 'COUNTDOWN,' BUT CAN HE COUNT UP?

On Fox News' "Special Report," Brit Hume raised the nut conspiracy theories circulating on the Web about Republicans stealing the presidential election. The liberals on the panel responded by quickly pointing out that no national Democrats -- not even Terry McAuliffe! -- had suggested that there had been any systematic vote theft. Hume admitted the rumors of vote fraud were limited to nutcases on the Web.
Like most Americans, apparently no one at Fox is watching MSNBC!

In a major report on "Countdown With Keith Olbermann" last Monday, Olbermann revealed that Bush's win in Florida -- and thus the election -- was "attributable largely to largely Democratic districts suddenly switching sides and all voting for Mr. Bush at the same time"! You know Keith Olbermann is heart-attack serious when he starts using "largely" twice in the same sentence.

Somberly reporting that "all this data here is from the office of Florida's secretary of state," Olbermann listed five Florida counties where the registrations are majority Democratic -- and yet (!) the counties went for Bush.

A quick glance at The Almanac of American Politics indicates that all five counties in Olbermann's conspiracy theory are in the Florida Panhandle, where most people have been registered as Democrats since their grandfathers registered them to vote shortly after the Civil War. This is in contrast to Broward and Dade Counties, where the vast majority of voters entered their party registrations when they moved to Florida from New York a few years ago.

As if anticipating Olbermann's idiotic conspiracy theory two years ago when he wrote the most recent almanac, Michael Barone specifically notes that these Panhandle counties -- though still majority Democratic in party registrations -- have been voting for Republicans for president for many years. This would include the 2000 presidential election when the three voting districts at the centerpiece of Olbermann's conspiracy theory voted for Bush by 69 percent, 66 percent and 57 percent. The only way Barone could have made this any clearer to the "Countdown" host would have been to begin the chapter, "Dear Keith Olbermann ..."

There's no mystery, no scandal. These are what's known as "Southern Democrats," who have been voting Republican for a very, very, very long time. Most of them probably don't even realize they're registered as Democrats. These people are Democrats like Kevin Phillips is a Republican, like Ashlee Simpson is a singer.

The only scandal is that a purported news program would raise insinuations of vote fraud based on the party registration of Southern Democrats living in the Florida Panhandle -- without anyone at the show checking The Almanac of American Politics. (It's especially attractive to be promoting a theory based on a lack of basic information, in the self-righteous, smug manner of Keith Olbermann.)

No election in the United States can be discussed intelligently without reference to Michael Barone's The Almanac of American Politics. At any half-serious television news station, The Almanac of American Politics is as common as a phonebook.

But at MSNBC, Keith Olbermann can go on air with the major breaking story that five conservative Democratic Panhandle counties voted for Bush, without one person on the show: (1) consulting The Almanac of American Politics, (2) looking at the results of the 2000 election, or (3) apparently ever having heard of "Southern Democrats." (They're all Republicans now!)

In case you needed more on the genius theories being hatched on MSNBC's "Countdown With Keith Olbermann," even if every one of these counties went unanimously for Kerry -- count them up, Keith! -- that's still, at most, about 50,000 votes. Bush won by 350,000 votes in Florida.

So I guess we can add "math" to Keith's growing "I Don't Do" file, along with "Reading The Almanac of American Politics," "Basic Show Prep," "Getting My Attitude in Line With My IQ" ... (By the way, shouldn't Keith Olbermann be avoiding "time is running out" motifs wherever possible?)

One cable news network employs Michael Barone as an analyst; one cable news network does not own a copy of The Almanac of American Politics. Guess which one regularly gets seven times the ratings of the other?

In addition to Olbermann peddling the theory that Bush stole the election to his viewer, guess which network employs a correspondent who wasn't sure if the following was a joke?

BUSH AT FIRST PRESS CONFERENCE AFTER WINNING ELECTION: "Now that I have the will of the people at my back, I'm going to start enforcing the one question rule -- that was three questions."

BUSH RESPONDING TO A REPORTER'S FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: "Again, you violated the one question rule right off the bat. Obviously, you didn't listen to the will of the people."

MSNBC correspondent David Shuster replayed this exchange on MSNBC's "Hardball" and then grimly remarked: "It was hard to tell at times whether the president was simply needling reporters, or whether he really planned to clamp down." It wasn't hard to tell for anyone who speaks English.

And yet liberals insist they lost the election because Americans are stupid.

COPYRIGHT 2004 UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE

[cowboyangel]

Attention conservatives...why not join the communist party? don't you miss these guys? or would you rather have lifelong insurgents pestering you????



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Solidarity!
ht

[Ranger Genius]

The only thing the constitution says about religion is that Congress can't pass a law establishing one.

That's a lie. Clearly you've never read the Constitution. It says congress cannot make a law CONCERNING AN establishment of religion. The reason religious concervatives feel their way of life is under attack is because they've spent the last fifty or so years attacking the separation of church and state in this country. Forcing their beliefs down the throats of others, or trying to use state and local governments (in particular) to condone their beliefs has become their way of life. It needs to be attacked. Not even the most vehemenet separationist advocates the abolishment of religions, just that said religions stay where they belong, and stop trying to meddle in political affairs, which is why the Constiution was written with the "wall of separation" built in.

Using public funds and public facilities to support a religious program is not only illegal, but wrong. What ignorant zealots who propose these types of programs view as an attack on their livelihood, is actually Americans who have been under attack finally realizing it and defending themselves.

[Simply Joel]

The only thing the constitution says about religion is that Congress can't pass a law establishing one.

That's a lie. Clearly you've never read the Constitution. It says congress cannot make a law CONCERNING AN establishment of religion. The reason religious concervatives feel their way of life is under attack is because they've spent the last fifty or so years attacking the separation of church and state in this country. Forcing their beliefs down the throats of others, or trying to use state and local governments (in particular) to condone their beliefs has become their way of life. It needs to be attacked. Not even the most vehemenet separationist advocates the abolishment of religions, just that said religions stay where they belong, and stop trying to meddle in political affairs, which is why the Constiution was written with the "wall of separation" built in.

Using public funds and public facilities to support a religious program is not only illegal, but wrong. What ignorant zealots who propose these types of programs view as an attack on their livelihood, is actually Americans who have been under attack finally realizing it and defending themselves.

yet, doesn't the majority have the right to say "this is the way i want my tax dollars spent"? yet doing it in such a manner as to not be offensive to the minority?

the religious right believes they are under attack...

if you take your statement and true, and my statement as true, don't you think both sides might realize there is a common bond of being under attack? and thereby overcoming one point of misunderstanding on both parties' part?

fuck, is it all that difficult for people to disagree without being disagreeable?

sincerely,

joel

[MoisturePup]

so, where i live, people like my parents believe they, as christians, are under attack, unprovoked attacks by secular thinking... it is that simple, convince them that their way of life isn't under attack from the left, and you might see a different outcome during the next election...

Oh boy. So Christians, which are the majority, think they are under attack? Who the hell is attacking them? I understand that they are gullible and easily convinced that things that aren't real are real, but nobody is attacking Christians. Perhaps if Christians valued critical thinking rather than blindly following the Pat Robertson's of the world they would realize that nobody is attacking them.

[gigglesnort]

{whistling} down, moisturepup, down! Stop attacking the christians! Down boy!

[samtzu]

actually, everybody is attacking everybody else... it's human (read: primate) nature for tribes to attack tribes. Use some of that critical thinking...

[MoisturePup]

yet, doesn't the majority have the right to say "this is the way i want my tax dollars spent"? yet doing it in such a manner as to not be offensive to the minority?

Short answer: No.

Long Answer: Rights are gaurunteed by the constitution. That is the only place that stipulates who has what right and when. The constitution states clearly that the majority does not have the right to establish, or respect any religion through the government. That clause serves to protect not only the government, but the religions themselves. Once the states has an established religion, the government itself can then tweak that religion and make demands upon it's followers.

the religious right believes they are under attack...

What they believe is wrong. They are the ones attacking our government, and constitution.

if you take your statement and true, and my statement as true, don't you think both sides might realize there is a common bond of being under attack? and thereby overcoming one point of misunderstanding on both parties' part?

Unfortunately the religious leaders in this country have done a great job at undermining the ability of their flocks to participate in critical thinking. "Religious leaders" of the Pat Robertson ilk have used this to their advantage to gain a giant proxy vote for their personal financial gains, and political power agendas within the US Gov't.

fuck, is it all that difficult for people to disagree without being disagreeable?

Yes, when it means the deterioration of my personal freedoms and my right to equality under the law, it is that difficult to disagree without being disagreeable.

[Zulegoona]

I've talked with a former co-worker about this. he expressed that the culture as propagated by media which they feel is in the hands of Liberals has a distain for their faith as well as promotes lifestyles and actions against their moral tenets which amounts to an attack on them.

He also express the Idea that most derogatory jokes such as polish jokes aren’t seen as acceptable but there are still jokes about the faithful, like "there was this priest and a rabbi" sort or joke.

I've heard a few of their leaders talk about it and it was clear to me that he was using the "we are under attack" line as a way of binding religious people who often have desperate viewpoints into a monolithic movement. at least that is what they are trying to do.

[theCryptofishist]

so, where i live, people like my parents believe they, as christians, are under attack, unprovoked attacks by secular thinking... it is that simple, convince them that their way of life isn't under attack from the left, and you might see a different outcome during the next election...

Oh boy. So Christians, which are the majority, think they are under attack? Who the hell is attacking them? I understand that they are gullible and easily convinced that things that aren't real are real, but nobody is attacking Christians. Perhaps if Christians valued critical thinking rather than blindly following the Pat Robertson's of the world they would realize that nobody is attacking them.

MP--I've actually spent some time thinking about this as well, and I think that we have to remember that Christian isn't some monolithic group and that there is a certain amount of infighting between the groups. Heck, a good baptist probably hates "papists" more than I do. (Hyperbole--so let's skip "cites.") I agree that they should probably get over some of it, but I don't think it's all in their minds. And due to the natures of the sects that settled North America they are not peaceful with each other. Of course, when you believe that your opponants are literally taking orders from the devil, as some do, you're going to have a little trouble being calm about it. But I suspect that the solution is going to have more to do with being able to find commonality of values and needs than it is to do with who's arguements follow the rhetorical rules better. If christians can see us as human (hopefully without seeing us as "lost") then they might be able to accept our choices as being made from the same places as theirs. Finally, I believe that while logic has a real place in human affairs, that emotion is the real key to the choices we make. Asking people to believe the better formal arguement without getting to the gut is a losing proposition, because you will never actually persuade and the person on the other end of the discussion will feel bullied and steamrolled.

My two centavos.

[Rian Jackson]

Finally, I believe that while logic has a real place in human affairs, that emotion is the real key to the choices we make. Asking people to believe the better formal arguement without getting to the gut is a losing proposition, because you will never actually persuade and the person on the other end of the discussion will feel bullied and steamrolled.

My two centavos.

btw, the cite to support this is Antonio Damasio's Descartes' Error.

[Ranger Genius]

I believe that while logic has a real place in human affairs, that emotion is the real key to the choices we make.

I'd keep that quiet if I were you.

Sorry for stirring up this Bees' Nest, kids. Joel and I already went through it in PM and came to something of an understanding. From one of my PMs:

If overzealous lawmakers of a different stripe were walking all over the "free exercise" clause instead of the "establishment" clause, I'd be just as vehement about stopping that, too. I actively support the Gay marriage initiative not because I have a vested interest in it (I'm hetero), but because it's what's right.

I often ask those who feel that they are under attack by the separationist movement whether they would feel the same way if the situation were reversed: if non-christians (muslims, say) were the majority in the country, and trying to use government to force their beliefs on others. Moving to Utah for a few years would teach anyone the importance of the separation of church and state.

[theCryptofishist]

Finally, I believe that while logic has a real place in human affairs, that emotion is the real key to the choices we make. Asking people to believe the better formal arguement without getting to the gut is a losing proposition, because you will never actually persuade and the person on the other end of the discussion will feel bullied and steamrolled.

My two centavos.

btw, the cite to support this is Antonio Damasio's Descartes' Error.

Never read (or even heard of) it. Some of hte material that I've read about how the brain works--possibly Pinker. Some of it from life experience. Thanks for the cite, Rian.

[cowboyangel]