Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

[Ratty]

Doc, I respect your knowledge of economics. OK. Tax cuts work. Would you say that's taking the long view? They don't work immediately. There will always be government help for poor families. Cuts to Planned Parenthood will cost a lot more down the road. That would be like discontinuing the one free check up a year at Kaiser to save money. It wouldn't work in the long run. Also birth control pills should be free for anyone of voting age.

[Simon of the Playa]

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[lucky420]

Cuts cuts cuts slash slash slash

But not one word about allllll the tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations

Well duh, there are no reasons to give them to the poor and unemployed. As both JFK and Bill Clinton, as well as Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump, have shown, that as long as the tax breaks go to those companies that actually increase revenue through more employment and the benefits that come with them, then yes, tax breaks work. So why not ask someone who's actually a principal of the New York Stock Exchange (uh, that would be me) to give you some insight on how the economic world really works rather than going back to your emotional feelings that the real world shows doesn't work. You don't like it because you don't get the cuts cuts cuts slash slash slash. Try working in the real world, not union and not governmental, and see what you think. But you have never given a damn about that because your narrow political perspective won't allow it. Thank God I'm here for perspective.

Point proven. You think you know me, you don’t. But go ahead stand on your little soapbox and bloviate all you want, you are very good at that I’ll admit. “You don’t like it because you don’t get the...” Nah that’s not it at all. I’ve never been jealous of someone else’s wealth. See I have enough, my house is paid for, I’m fairly healthy, my family loves me, I have friends, my job is fulfilling, I don’t sit in a corner drooling over my coins. To be envious of someone else’s wealth is just silly because for all their seemingly good luck, or hard work or whatever brought them to their station in life it could all be for naught because inside they may be riddled with some ugly cancer. I just feel that the very wealthy and corporations who get away with their ugly selfishness should pay their fair share. I’m an American, I love this country. I feel we should help our fellow humans and no that doesn’t mean just giving money to poor people but you go ahead and twist my words and apply whatever twisted hyperbole fits your narrative because it’s what you do so well.

[Skuzzy61]

No offense lucky, but you are as good as anyone at trying to put words in others mouths.

[lucky420]

No offense lucky, but you are as good as anyone at trying to put words in others mouths.

What words did I put in your mouth? And did I say doc put words in my mouth? I own my shit, I’m not just a cheerleader, no offense

[Elderberry]

[Skuzzy61]

No offense lucky, but you are as good as anyone at trying to put words in others mouths.

What words did I put in your mouth? And did I say doc put words in my mouth? I own my shit, I’m not just a cheerleader, no offense

There has been several instances where you take what is said and then start a sentence with "You mean..." and then twist it up from the original post. If those were questions it would be a different matter, but they were statements as if to be fact, when they were not.

[Elderberry]

No offense lucky, but you are as good as anyone at trying to put words in others mouths.

What words did I put in your mouth? And did I say doc put words in my mouth? I own my shit, I’m not just a cheerleader, no offense

There has been several instances where you take what is said and then start a sentence with "You mean..." and then twist it up from the original post. If those were questions it would be a different matter, but they were statements as if to be fact, when they were not.

Interesting. I've never seen her do that. Might you provide a source?

[Skuzzy61]

There are sources in this thread. Just look for recent posts my me and her followup, then me following up having to say, something like, 'no, that is not what i said'. That is not a direct quote, by the way.

I have gotten to where I really do not want to respond to anything from Simon, lonesomebri, or lucky as it always ends the same. If you are not absolutely agreeing with them, then expect a derogatory or demeaning post to follow. Or some reconstruction of what you say so they can be derogatory or demeaning.

It seems pointless to me to attempt to have a discussion with them.

[Elderberry]

Interesting, because they're almost always right!

[lucky420]

There are sources in this thread. Just look for recent posts my me and her followup, then me following up having to say, something like, 'no, that is not what i said'. That is not a direct quote, by the way.

I have gotten to where I really do not want to respond to anything from Simon, lonesomebri, or lucky as it always ends the same. If you are not absolutely agreeing with them, then expect a derogatory or demeaning post to follow. Or some reconstruction of what you say so they can be derogatory or demeaning.

It seems pointless to me to attempt to have a discussion with them.

Do you know about the “plonk” button/feature? I think that’s what it’s called, anyhoo if you use it you don’t have to see any posts from us.

[lucky420]

There are sources in this thread. Just look for recent posts my me and her followup, then me following up having to say, something like, 'no, that is not what i said'. That is not a direct quote, by the way.

I have gotten to where I really do not want to respond to anything from Simon, lonesomebri, or lucky as it always ends the same. If you are not absolutely agreeing with them, then expect a derogatory or demeaning post to follow. Or some reconstruction of what you say so they can be derogatory or demeaning.

It seems pointless to me to attempt to have a discussion with them.

Yet you have no trouble defending doc when he has been derogatory or demeaned me...mmmm. I do understand that as we all generally take sides, but you seem to not understand or don’t see that it is a 2way street. Well anyhoo there’s always the plonk button but if you find a source to your claim, let me know, k?

[lucky420]

No offense lucky, but you are as good as anyone at trying to put words in others mouths.

What words did I put in your mouth? And did I say doc put words in my mouth? I own my shit, I’m not just a cheerleader, no offense

There has been several instances where you take what is said and then start a sentence with "You mean..." and then twist it up from the original post. If those were questions it would be a different matter, but they were statements as if to be fact, when they were not.

Those were questions, as they had a question mark at the end of those questions

[some seeing eye]

Hello Doc, on corporate taxation, I think we can discuss it on ePlaya. I'm seriously interested in your response, I don't look at it as some kind of social media ego contest.


I am interested in your knowledge of high frequency and program trading. My understanding of high frequency trading is that it is a subset to program trading,

Which investors have access to each? My guess, correct me if I’m wrong, is that most retirement accounts have large long term stock and bond holdings and do not materially participate in high frequency or program trading unless there is is a program trading bottom trigger. Where are the individual investor or retirement funds that go high frequency?


I am going to propose two ideas you might disagree. In policy studies, one of the things found is that some ideas are ingrained and unquestionable. If it’s your policy, you love it. These two are unquestioned. They should be questioned from a policy benefiting individual Americans (IMO) standpoint.


Policy one is that corporations are assumed pass through in relation to income taxes, therefore they should not be taxed. Federally, and most states, we tax corporate profit. (We tax individuals on income, not profit) Corporations externalize the operations untaxed costs from revenue the government expends to make business work.
The US government protects the international supply chain with the military, the rule of law domestically, and with the State Department in foreign countries. The entire navy is about protecting oil shipping and container ships. The government builds domestic roads to ship goods for business. In the US, our very expensive federal, state and county justice system primarily protects businesses, not individuals. That is all the courts, judges, prosecutors, prisons and police (which is extremely inefficient). We have a school system that trains corporation workers for free.
My radical idea is that corporations should pay from revenue tax for this P/L externality. Why should they get it free? The counter argument is that consumers in some cases would pay higher prices. Counter-counter why should the market refrain from signaling true costs?

In my view, if individuals were taxed like corporations; all the housing, food, meals, medical, transportation, child care, schooling, local taxes, landscaping, interest costs, vacation, grooming service, clothing and more, would be exemptions off the top. Exactly like it is for corporations.

There would also be low cost services to launder individual taxation above costs offshore.


So the question is, why should we subsidize corporation operating cost from personal income taxes?



Policy two is corporate citizenship. I believe that Congress should completely unwind corporate citizenship, then rebuild it very specifically in legislation. Corporate free speech - unlimited lobbying via Citizens United, or any corporate lobbying, prohibited.



I'm obviously very liberal but I'm interested in a discussion of alternate viewpoints. I'm not interested in setting any kind of social media trap for those who disagree. PM discussion is fine.

To your earlier post, I believe congress should generate a surplus to pay down the debt in boom times and it's fine to run a deficit in recessions. As you mention, God help us if interest rates increase significantly or China dumps debt and coverts the world banking system off dollars. I don't think government debt is the biggest problem, but I believe it should trend to zero in the long term and not trending that way is a failure of the relationship between congress and taxpayers.

I'm also a student of health care. Medicare for all works better phased in. The whole college tuition situation needs supply side reform of expense before demand side of price relief by government, in my liberal opinion.

[Elderberry]

This guy is my new hero. A billionaire who says the rich need to be taxed way more, he's giving away at least half of his fortune to help the needy.

Ray Dalio

https://www.linkedin.com/in/raydalio/

[Dr. Pyro]

Some Seeing Eye, you make a sound, cogent argument for your vision, and I appreciate you doing it while keeping the discussion civil. I do not support "evil corporations" because, first and foremost, IMO most corporations are not evil. Are some? Sure. But whether it's PRIDE Industries or Apple, I think more good comes from these entities than evil. I do not wish to discuss my 40 year's worth of knowledge gleamed from being a principle of the New York Stock Exchange (which clearly biases my viewpoint) here. If you'd like to share a beer or glass of wine--or heaven forbid some absinthe--on playa and mutually agree to disagree on some of these points, I would welcome the dialogue.

[Simon of the Playa]

Interesting, because they're almost always right!

and some people are almost always wrong...


i won’t mention any names

we know who you are.

[Simon of the Playa]

The post referenced a book by a pseudonymous author that is popular among neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Among other things, the book promotes violence and strength as a moral strategy. It is filled with anti-Semitic and misogynistic language.


https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4 ... ram-before

[lucky420]

The post referenced a book by a pseudonymous author that is popular among neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Among other things, the book promotes violence and strength as a moral strategy. It is filled with anti-Semitic and misogynistic language.


https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4 ... ram-before

Oh come on now, I’m sure he was a very fine person

[Simon of the Playa]

damn pesky facts...

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[lucky420]

“That’s okay, I got mine”. ^^

[thnkfl]

Well duh, there are no reasons to give them to the poor and unemployed. As both JFK and Bill Clinton, as well as Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump, have shown, that as long as the tax breaks go to those companies that actually increase revenue through more employment and the benefits that come with them, then yes, tax breaks work. So why not ask someone who's actually a principal of the New York Stock Exchange (uh, that would be me) to give you some insight on how the economic world really works rather than going back to your emotional feelings that the real world shows doesn't work. You don't like it because you don't get the cuts cuts cuts slash slash slash. Try working in the real world, not union and not governmental, and see what you think. But you have never given a damn about that because your narrow political perspective won't allow it. Thank God I'm here for perspective.

May I observe that if one wants a plant to thrive, one does not water the blossoms -- one waters the roots.

Secondly, thanks for the good laugh. I found it amusing to hear a member of the Stock Exchange tell someone else to "try working in the real world."

[Simon of the Playa]

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[Simon of the Playa]

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[FIGJAM]

Why aren't there any "Inglorious Bastards" out there?

Is it possible that there just no anti-Nazi crazies???

[FIGJAM]

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[some seeing eye]

As far as anti-Nazi crazies, they are out there. I live in Little Beirut. It was named that by Bush I on the occasion of protests noted for a bunch of Reed College students dressed in suits vomiting red, white and blue food coloring mashed potatoes on the street. One of them went on to form the Yes Men.
Now we have street fights between neo-Nazis and the Antifa a few times a year. It's a huge PITA. Basically the neo-Nazis try to provoke the Antifa into hurting them, the Antifa jumps into the trap, then the neo-Nazis broadcast the video.
Usually the Antifa here just break bank and Starbucks windows, or smash cars, throw flares into police cars, the usual. But it's only a matter of time before https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ng-up-arms causes human harm.

Fox news-style reporting and many of the talk radio media, obviously some Reddits, fringe sites like 8chan write inflammatory headlines, articles and people make inflammatory comments. The more inflammatory, the more advertising clicks and time on site.

It's sad to see younger generations doing it as a matter of course in their own posts, because they have been raised to think it is normal.

The end result is that much of the population is stressed, angry and frustrated, even though poling shows maybe 80% of the population has moderate views.

[FIGJAM]

I was wondering more about a mass shooting of a KKK rally or similar.

Will it happen when some nut gets feed up enough?

[Simon of the Playa]

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[some seeing eye]

Actually Simon, I was speaking of our Western Antifa, specifically the Rose City Antifa. They are the black bloc evolving out of Eugene for the 1999 Seattle WTO protests. Their tactic was to do property damage to draw police into beating them and other nearby protestors. They and the media would video it.

They continued since then in our town on and off through the legitimate political protests around things that should be protested. But they used the same tactic of blending in with the nonviolent protestors, breaking things, then fading away letting the other protestors be beaten, tear gassed, and arrested.

Now the Rose City Antifa is getting tricked by our local neo-Nazi group into being filmed beating others up.

They are working against real anti-fascist values and discrediting the progressive movement because their own ego is blinding them. I wouldn't discount a Tommy the Traveler angle.

This is literally the BS we are dealing with:


We have plenty of problems with neo-Nazis, but the Rose City Antifa has not solved anything, they have made it worse, and they and the neo-Nazis are simply kids in Halloween costumes that want to brawl with each other. The more the Antifa and the neo-Nazis fight, the more very crazy followers they get who subsequently individually commit hate crimes.

Everybody's concern is that the street battle injuries are just going to escalate.