case studies

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:57 pm

Hysterical? Bob, do you have a mirror close by? You might want to take a long hard look into it. Does the image look like a blackened kettle? Yep, thought so.

I'm not going hysterical, I'm simply calling it like I see it. If there's a case here nobody has taken the time to clearly lay it out and cite the CG / TOS section violated. I reread the posts trying to do just that and I find nothing that really holds up to scrutiny...especially considering some of the other charges that have floated around the board in the past.

Or in other words I'm from Missouri. Show Me! Show me and everyone else where the actionable item is. Why should this thread be yanked and what authority does the admins have to do it? If it violates the CG / TOS they can act, if not they can't. So if someone wants this done, step up. Or shut up.That's all there is to it. And while I'm at it the only reason I'm paying any attention is I had a hand in formulating the CG / TOS along with several others and I like seeing how they work under fire. If a flaw is found and it needs fixing...then let's get it on and do it.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:53 pm

nicely put.

I dont see anything wrong with the thread other than it rather silly. Bob was funny on it too and so was chicken john.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:02 am

The TOS clearly state that

You understand and agree that Burning Man may review and delete any content, messages, photos or profiles (collectively, "Content") that in the sole judgment of Burning Man violate this Agreement or which might be offensive, illegal, or that might violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of Members.

Slander and libel certainly violate the rights of and harm the person targeted by them. I agree, though, that the decision whether it's harmful or not is up to the person being slighted.

Incidentally, Missouri is not the "show me" state because of the renowned scepticism of its citizens...it's because you can't just explain something to them: "He's from Missouri; you're gonna hafta show him."

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:24 am

I see both sides, frankly.

A crime: embezzlement: has been alluded to, though not outrightly 'accused'... still, I'm sure the party in question FEELS accused... where exactly does that line get drawn? It seems like pretty grey area to me. i, too, went back and reread that thread, to find something to quote here, and, aside from what's already been quoted, i don't see anything. You're right, emily: a lot of he said/she said. (i also freely admit to knowing very little about libel laws and the like, so perhaps what's on there IS enough.)

On the other hand, I think that seeing this discussion on this board is important. We should have to be held accountable for the things that we say and do on this public board. Deleting the thread seems like being able to take back all of those statements, without having any responsibility for saying them in the first place. I also agree that it seems important to see the birthing of the Borg2, to be able to look back and see where it came from.

there they are folks.
*plink, plink*

*cringing, waiting for the flaming to begin*

buckethead alien · Post by **buckethead alien** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:44 am

In my real-world experience with libel suits and fending them off, there is nothing wrong with having a lawyer who specializes in this area take a look at questionable statements. Look, we've won every time we've been sued, but at a great cost both to us and to our libel insurance providers.

A red flag to look out for is when an identifiable individual, company, or group is accused of illegal activities. When we catch this in a letter to the editor or news story, we e-mail a copy to the lawyers. They then tell us what needs to be changed or whether to drop the offending thing all together.

We have been sued over the most seemingly idiotic stuff, so we are very cautious. The most recent suit was by a guy who claimed we have libelled him by failing to mention something about a lawsuit he had brought against a municipality. We won on appeal of a decision against us by the first judge who looked at the case.

Not to be disrespectful to the admins, but this is something that should be vetted by a pro. That said, if someone wanted to make these allegations in my newspaper I would probably refuse.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:09 am

Stu's so cute when he's bitter...

I'll kill you mutha fucka!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm always cute! Or always bitter, or

(should I be barred now?)

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:11 am

stuart wrote:
Stu's so cute when he's bitter...
I'll kill you mutha fucka!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm always cute! Or always bitter, or

(should I be barred now?)

Hey Stu made a threat of bodily harm. I vote that he be suspended for a month.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:21 am

Shut up you little twerp or it shall lead to UNEXPECTED CONSEQUENCES.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:27 am

Since logic, rhyme, and reason are flying out the window around here.....a refresher of TOS 7E is in order:

The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited on the Eplaya. Burning Man reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action in its sole discretion against anyone who violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending post from the Service and terminating the membership of such violators, in connection with all available civil, criminal, and injunctive remedies. You agree not to use the Service to:

post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

It is what it is. About now is when I'm glad I didn't get into e-playa admin work. Poor Emily and TP have their work cut out for them.

And wow, I get to read another Bob post. Yawn. Somebody must have slipped some Ambien into my OJ this morning.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:30 am

a refresher of TOS 7E

as I said before

the TOS, etc., etc., are for those who are inclined not to abide by them.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:31 am

I bet Emily and TP are just kickin back and cracking up.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:32 am

That or reaching for the Excedrin and Pepcid.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:41 am

Embezzelment would imply intent to steal money for your personal gain. Nobody that I can see implied that. What was complained about is a lack of accounting, possibly mismanagement, but I don't think anyone implied that anyone intentionally STOLE anything. Granted, some people jumped into the thread with guns blazing but there was a campaign going on and they obviously felt a need to vigorously defend their candidate. Let's not go making things into other things just because they CAN be. I don't have any reason to think that anyone accused Cory of embezzelment or theft. If they did, they should state it so clearly. Then we can deal with it as such.

emily sparkle · Post by **emily sparkle** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:56 pm

About now is when I'm glad I didn't get into e-playa admin work. Poor Emily and TP have their work cut out for them.

ha! when i became admin, there was no TOS and CG. i helped people with their passwords, deleted duplicates, etc. when the rules were implemented, the job changed a lot. i thank *insert something non-offensive to you here* every day for technopatra and the other admins. and like my most favorite days of the year, i have just learned to go with the flow...

I bet Emily and TP are just kickin back and cracking up. Laughing

yeah and when i catch myself doing that i usually realize i'm laughing at you guys because i'm enjoying the banter... then, when the accusations start getting flung around...

... reaching for the Excedrin and Pepcid.

'zactly.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:04 pm

Ranger Genius wrote:
Cory was one of the people in SEAL who kept a lot of cash from past Decoms for themselves.
Just because you don't use the word "embezzlement" doesn't mean you aren't accusing someone of it.

Did you miss this? That sounds like a pretty blatant accusation to me.

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: borg2 - east coast opinions

And couching it in hearsay doesn't make it any less actionable.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:25 pm

That or reaching for the Excedrin and Pepcid.

I thought it was chemo.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:50 pm

That comment referred to the admins.

Chemo is worthless.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:35 pm

Yes Chemo made no sense.

lets have Badger explain himself.

(and if he is to stoop himself to ....down to my level........ then ooooh my .......)

never mind.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:50 pm

lets have Badger explain himself.

(and if he is to stoop himself to ....down to my level.......

Quand vous avez quelque chose à dire je pourrais considérer vous engager. Jusque-là, ne vous flattez pas.

But back to the subject at hand....

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:02 am

no palaee vooou france.

stoop another level..

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:06 am

Ya know this is so much like south parc.

back to the topic at hand.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:37 am

no palaee vooou france.

Pourquoi est-ce que ceci ne m'étonne pas? Le Christ, vous parlez à peine anglais vous chiez chapeau.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:50 am

I thought that hat looked familiar.

emily sparkle · Post by **emily sparkle** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:09 pm

stay on topic please. remember this is the case studies thread.

thanks.

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:40 pm

Can we have a case study on the number of views/responses to the Thunderdome payment thread? It's got to be a record of some sort. Do admins have special report-pulling powers?

emily sparkle · Post by **emily sparkle** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:43 pm

You can actually find out this information by looking at the topic listing page for the folder the thread is in. The Views column tells you how many people view the thread and the Replies column tells you how many posts it has in it.

Hope that helps.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:54 pm

emily sparkle wrote:You can actually find out this information by looking at the topic listing page for the folder the thread is in. The Views column tells you how many people view the thread and the Replies column tells you how many posts it has in it.

Hope that helps.

she was asking about time breakdowns, which doesn't seem to be given.
but i really just wanted an excuse to say i love your new avatar.

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:00 pm

er, yeah, thanks rj. that's what I meant. I forgot to include the 'time' aspect.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:53 pm

What I'm curious about is how this is presented to the tech team when evaluating an issue like the BORG2 thread. Are concerns and considerations set (or presented) to include the input here?

Just really curious more than anything. Are decisions here based on consensus?

Just bringing it up because i can't remember this ever being asked.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:18 am

Got a question;

Calsur (whom we all know and love and is an exceptionally nice guy.) calls BRR an idiot,
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=
and gets suspended for a time.
Calling someone an idiot is, in my book, not such a bad thing, especially if they are but not a nice thing to say.

Badger harasses me since almost day one, I don’t bother the Admins about it because I think what he is doing is rather childish. So I just ignore him since it really doesn't bother me, and there is no way virtually, mentally or physically he can do anything to me.
This game he plays, the gibberish he spews and the arrogant aggressiveness he applies towards me, as persistent as it be, seems constant, as if he is trying to bully me off Eplaya. I reply to him in a PM to basically "Fuck off", ( ok, so it may not have been the best choice of words but how was I to know he would not be smart enough to get the message to go about his business and leave me alone. At least that's how I took what I said to mean.) and I get suspended for a month.

Now I don’t mind this since I need the time off, a Sabbatical if you will.

So here I am back on Eplaya and having fun and enjoying my fellow Eplayans with their compliments of how they are happy to see me back and all, ( not all Eplayans but you cant please everyone.) and I get an obnoxious statement from Badger that goes exactly like this:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... c&start=60

Badger wrote:Shit hat.

Maybe you jerk to such URLs but consider the idea that others find your petri dish humor to be...lacking.

Marginal.

As you are, so shall you remain.

An ass are you.

and be expected to show any respect twoards him even with his lack of creativity in insulting me in such a fashion.

Is there some kind of double standard that I am missing here?
Is Badger above the rest of us when it comes to Eplaya law and etiquette?

Is it ok to have this as part of the case study debate?

I am Bigger than Badger and have to this day not asked the Admins to do anything to Badger, but I do believe if this is not tended to or at least looked at, other Eplayans may be subject to this potential Hippocratic and ugly vibe he craves to embrace.

What should be done, after all I think I've been relatively as nice as I can be to him under the circumstances.

Being a baby about a fellow Eplayan doesn't seem to work as Badger has demonstrated with his attempt to try to create the "Mommy Police" instead of just leaving me alone.
Does anyone have a suggestion for the Badger that may help him to stop badgering me?

Me not being on Eplaya won’t happen and is not a solution. I, being assimilated to be Like Badger will never happen.
He seems to be much more dangerous than I.
Not really to me but to himself. He seems to be the type to get in such a frenzy about what I do and the friends I keep that if there comes a time I need to defend myself, (if need be) if he and I cross paths, he will ( and he will. ) underestimate me by thinking
he can over power me or something.
He seems to hold a lot of hostility.

That is what I get from his above statement. And this is not the only statement he's made to me this way.

I'm not scared of him. I can take care of myself very well. But I'm concerned that he may hurt himself with the animosity he instills.

<Sigh> what to do, what to do.