No Smoking on the Playa?

brockharris · Post by **brockharris** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:17 pm

I cannot help but notice that the vast majority of moop out on the playa...is cigarette butts.

I have lots of friends who smoke. All of them throw their butts on the ground wherever they are. They wouldn't dream of dropping even a gumwrapper on the ground, but for some reason they don't consider their butts litter.

Out on the playa, the same logic seems to hold. Could Burning Man be a non-smoking event, at least in the common areas? Heck, there's no smoking at Disneyland, even outside, and people love it.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:53 pm

Personally I'd consider that a wet dream of paradisiac intensity, but it'd be unenforceable at best and suicidal at worst. I've met people who are so addicted to the blasted things they'll attack and maim anyone who tries to come between them and their cigs.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:55 pm

The butts were really bad this year. I don't see any way they're going to ban smoking, but a publicity campaign to get people to carry a sealed ashtray around with them might be in order.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:01 pm

It is. Heck, they've been telling people to decorate up Altos and Sucrets cans for years and at least in the Portland scene, it's everything but required equipment. There's your bike, there's your Camelbak, there's your EL wire thingy, there's your decorated-up Altos can (at least for those who smoke).

nevadadrifter · Post by **nevadadrifter** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:21 am

There has to be some way to promote some sort of solution....

Maybe someone could get a bunch of empty medication containers, punch 2 holes in the top and run a lanyard through it. Then you could take all kinds of arts & crafts type stuff and decorate it. Instant wearable AND functional art, right there around your neck, so you always remember it's there!

Sure, it sounds like a cheesy summer camp craft project, but hey, whatever gets people to put their butts somewhere besides on the playa, right? It might be workable around a theme camp somehow. Come in, bling out your butt container and have a few drinks while you do it. Promises of free alcohol will ALWAYS draw people in!

philosopher · Post by **philosopher** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:44 am

At the temple burn, I got wedged in at the last minute between a bicycle and a bunch of frat boy types who kept standing when everyone around them was sitting (so I couldn't move without disturbing a few dozen people), and smoked and joked their way through the whole thing. Of course, the butts wound up on the playa.

Their offensiveness drove me deeper into my own meditative space, which turned out to be pretty good that night, but that doesn't change the fact that they turned the temple burn into a trial for me, plus there is just something significantly wrong about chain-smoking in such close quarters, especially at an event like the temple burn. This turned out to be one of those times when doing what you want to do harms others. Last I heard, that was one of the things we try to avoid in BRC.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:12 am

brockharris wrote:Out on the playa, the same logic seems to hold. Could Burning Man be a non-smoking event, at least in the common areas? Heck, there's no smoking at Disneyland, even outside, and people love it.

1. No.
2. Nope.
3. Kill me now.

Wdodge · Post by **Wdodge** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:27 pm

If the survival guide is read correctly, then smokers (like me) carry a tin and put their buts in there to be disposed of in the garbage back at camp.
I use an Altoids tin and even carry it to parties in town where I know there is no smoking in the house. I always have my tin to use as an ash tray.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:29 pm

"Altoids," thank you

This is my point. The conscientious people like Wdodge don't come into the argument. They know not to leave MOOP around. They care. They take the effort (such as it is — how much time/energy does it take to stick a cigarette butt in a hinged metal box around your neck?).

As for the people who couldn't give a rusty fuckwich and MOOP anyway, like the frats at the Temple Burn, you can hector and upbraid them 'til you're blue in the face and the only difference it'll make is that they'll toss the flaming butts at your eyes instead of dropping them on the ground.

The people who care — don't need to be told. The people who don't care — won't listen.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:33 pm

diane o'thirst wrote: As for the people who couldn't give a rusty fuckwich and MOOP anyway, like the frats at the Temple Burn, you can hector and upbraid them 'til you're blue in the face and the only difference it'll make is that they'll toss the flaming butts at your eyes instead of dropping them on the ground.

Follow them to their camp, come back when it's quiet and deflate their tires. Are they riding bikes?

I'm serious. Leave their cigarette butts under the windshield wipers so they know why it happened.

Bring back the "radical."

-zb

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:38 pm

[Chuckle] Zaphod, don't encourage me!
I'm trying to be a good wolf here!

NEXUS · Post by **NEXUS** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:40 pm

I like Zaphod's style! And if that still doesn't work, why not stretch and tie the tubing across the entrance to their tents for a quick reminder when they stumble out for their am smoke.

The Bass · Post by **The Bass** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:14 pm

patient persistent education, live and in-person...

and maybe the more consciencious smokers could bring some extra tins for their less enlightened brethren...?

Wdodge · Post by **Wdodge** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:21 am

Who said anything about wearing an Altoid tin around my neck? It's better in the thigh pocet of my shorts.
I don't think revenge or violence against the MOOGesers 's is correct. Do we have any creative non-violent ideas out there?

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:36 am

short sharp shocks applied liberally to their delicate parts.

neccessity · Post by **neccessity** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:53 pm

Reminder: It's a DO-ocracy! No we can't make it non-smoking. No we can't punish everyone who drops a butt.

We CAN however:
Pick up every butt we see.
Take an ashtray for sharing to Spike's, Burns, etc.
Make and bring multiple spare ashtrays for gifting.
Gift cigarrettes only to people who will smoke them right there next to your ashtray or show their own first.

Know how I know this can be done? I did it. Every single thing on that list I did conscientiously and religously. And I did not notice a bunch of butts littering the playa because the second I saw them they were removed and placed in my pack.

Wdodge · Post by **Wdodge** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:11 pm

That's good thinking! I really like the idea of gifting tins. got to remember that. I think most people would use them if they had thought to bring them.

neccessity · Post by **neccessity** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:39 pm

Keeping a larger one around for parties was nice, too. I used a mini-altoids tin, the kind the gum comes in, for personal use, and had a full-size for group use. Took the bigger one to Spikes and was the life of the party! Every smoker that side of the bar got to know me. And I'll certainly be bringing more to gift next year after seeing the appreciation of those I did give tins to. Definitely thinking that this is one of those little things that goes big and next year being the ashtray fairy may be a full time job for at least a day. Hmmm..... maybe a legion of ashtray fairies??

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:58 pm

I swapped my washi paper covered altoid tins for used tins which will be reborn as pretty butt holders for next year.

neccessity · Post by **neccessity** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:21 pm

Oooh ooh! I had an idea! Anyone can feel free to steal this and make it their own project and I'll contribute my butt off. Can't make it my own as I'm already committed to a billion other ideas for '06:

The Butthole Smokers' Lounge and Ashtray Craftery:
Mon-Sun X:00 to X:00
Come by to smoke guilt-free, trade cigarettes and tales, make your own ashtray or contribute already pre-made.

etc., etc. If anyone wants to do this I'll help out a lot and we'll start a new thread.

dig · Post by **dig** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:30 pm

The Bass wrote:patient persistent education, live and in-person...

and maybe the more consciencious smokers could bring some extra tins for their less enlightened brethren...?

Last year I gave out about 50, and this year almost 80 tins. It is an easy and functional gift, and I was very surprised how many I saw return this year. Nobody admonished me for spamming our radio station either

--dig

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:47 pm

When you see someone drop a butt you can try the subtle method ... pick it up and hand it back to them with a "hey, you dropped this, here's your moop back". 'Course they might mention that they are with BORG3 who has decided that funding art sucks and they are going to collect funds to pay someone to clean up butts.

It isn't that hard to slip them into a pocket (if you have a pocket) and toss them into a fire/burn barrel. I generally hold the butt until the ash burns all the way to the filter and falls out then slip them into my pocket for later disposal.

If the subtle method doesn't work, you can always then strike up a civil conversation with them, exchange names, find out where the person is camping, collect up their butts and place them in that person's camp as in "here's your moop back anyway".

Peer pressure is a powerful thing. If a person feels they are being shunned by their peers for doing something, they will often change their behavior.

icebox · Post by **icebox** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:22 pm

Geekster's subtle approach works. While on Ranger patrol I noticed a participant carelessly toss his cig on the ground so I picked it up and followed him for a while. When I finally caught up to him I simply asked if he had any room in his pocket for his moop since my pockets were "full". Out of startled embarrassment he claimed to be a non-smoker even though my partner and I both clearly saw him toss it. The guilt quickly caught up with him and he sheepishly took the butt back. Without berating them, you can use subtlety to allow people to see the carelessness/stupidity of their actions and usually that's enough to educate them.

BTW, empty floss boxes also make nice compact butt containers. Maybe I should reword that, yikes.

Post by **Eric** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:58 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
diane o'thirst wrote: As for the people who couldn't give a rusty fuckwich and MOOP anyway, like the frats at the Temple Burn, you can hector and upbraid them 'til you're blue in the face and the only difference it'll make is that they'll toss the flaming butts at your eyes instead of dropping them on the ground.

Follow them to their camp, come back when it's quiet and deflate their tires. Are they riding bikes?

I'm serious. Leave their cigarette butts under the windshield wipers so they know why it happened.

Bring back the "radical."

-zb

This I like.

Super-gluing a butt to the bike seat afterwards might get the idea across as well.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:53 am

neccessity wrote:Oooh ooh! I had an idea! Anyone can feel free to steal this and make it their own project and I'll contribute my butt off. Can't make it my own as I'm already committed to a billion other ideas for '06:

The Butthole Smokers' Lounge and Ashtray Craftery:
Mon-Sun X:00 to X:00
Come by to smoke guilt-free, trade cigarettes and tales, make your own ashtray or contribute already pre-made.

etc., etc. If anyone wants to do this I'll help out a lot and we'll start a new thread.

:D

Brillient. We have a great resource here in the east bay areathe Depot that usually has lots of altoid tins and other sorts of possible containers at ~$5 a grocery sackfull. I'm not sure if I'll make the event this year, but I'd be happy to gift/send you a bunch for this project. Possible art supplies as well.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:30 am

My new favorite way to decorate a tin: mod podge and either washi paper or magazine photos.

BTW once mod podge dries, there's no getting it off. Hehehehe.

Natural Man · Post by **Natural Man** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:59 pm

I'm encouraged to see this thread and I love some of the "radical" recommendations being proposed.

I wish there were some way to effect a citizens arrest or some other fine that all could give to smokers everytime we witness them throw a butt on the ground. Whatever happened to the "NO TRACE" ethic with this group of burners? Whatever happened to the "don't let it hit the ground" mantra? Not only don't they abide by this... they THROW it on the ground !!

This for me this is a little rant... but in all honesty most of the most disrepectful people I run into on the playa every year happen to be smokers.

I'm NOT stereotyping here. I know that there are a small number of considerate smokers... but the vast majority seem to think it's our job to tolerate the negative aspects of their habit, smoke billowing in my face every year in close quarters at the burns, butts everywhere on the playa, etc.

And give a smoker just a little alcohol.... all consideration for others if there was any to begin with is gone for good.

I agree with the comment that a smokless burn would be better than a wet dream.

neccessity · Post by **neccessity** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:41 am

Probably true for many people, Nat. But a cigarrette is a lot easier to clean up after.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:09 pm

This year the butts were so thick in some areas I would have to get off my bike and walk to pick then up. To see me walk shamed some into help me. It hurts to walk but worth it to shame the guilty. I suggest to everyone you get a graber or what its called. Any way I can reach the ground from a tall bike and pick up very small moop. They do cost $10 a HF but can be used around the house all year. Moms will love then for picking up after the runt.

Natural Man · Post by **Natural Man** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:32 pm

neccessity wrote:Probably true for many people, Nat. But a cigarrette is a lot easier to clean up after.

Easier than what ?

No Smoking on the Playa?

No Smoking on the Playa?

Re: No Smoking on the Playa?