WAR! What is it good for?

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:13 am

That's it. I'm moving to Denmark.

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:04 am

http://www.smirkingchimp.com

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:04 am

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:48 pm

KellY wrote:Okay, De Facto, instead of wasting time trying to convince you that you've got your head up your ass, let me ask you a few questions. Do you want those disadvantaged kids to not bother voting as well? Do you really think that having all educated, intelligent people (which I assume includes the eplayans reading this) drop out of the sytem will yield positive results? If so, what are those results? If a government by and for the people wherein the population makes it's will known by voting isn't a good idea, what do you recommend?
"

Part 1:

jeffreybenner wrote:I wrote to Barlow and Pesce directly and both of them finally responded.

Barlow completely backpeddled and said he just meant to say Burners should be more politically active. Well, sure. But that wasn't the sense of his essay at all, which was a scathing critique of Burners with its "self imposed ghettoism" and such.

Pesce held to his guns. He said he meant his piece to be a "wakeup call" to Burners. He has a sense, which he did not do a good job in my opinion explicating, that Burning Man is capable of being a generator of novelty (in the McKenna-esque sense) and that it is becoming a boring event. He is a very idea-oriented, intellectual gentleman who really wants to see new ideas arise out of Burning Man, and is not willing to give up on the event.

I think in some sense I understand what he is saying. I do think Pesce lost more people than he gained with his comments about cultism and franchising.

If you want new ideas to arise out of Burning Man, my answer would be, bring them to Burning Man. Make a new camp, a new cultural movement, a new art installation that challenges people.

Maybe Burning Man needs a cultural terrorist network?

I think there are more thinking people at Burning Man than any other gathering I am aware of. Could there be more leaders and fewer followers? Sure, there always could be. But the only thing I know how to do is participate. I can't think of anything structurally that could be done with Burning Man to enhance its ability as generator of novelty.

So, Pesce, I am awake, I am thinking, but I don't honestly know if your essay is leading us anywhere constructive.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:09 pm

DE FACTO · Post by **DE FACTO** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 5:22 pm

>An addendum:
>
>Also, I am a continuos notorious liar:
>
>At my news conference today (10/28/03) I stated unashamelessly "I did not
>place or have anything to do with the banner", "Mission accomplished " atop
>the mast of that air craft carrier, " the Navy did it."
>
>(Documented and stated on NBC's Pat Buchannan's afternoon show, "when
>George
>Bush flew and landed in a borrowed flying suit on the carrier, he did do
>it.
>His Advance Staff, for a photo opt shoot, placed the banner atop the
>aircraft carrier.) . . . and the lies continues! He (Bush) also said the
>statement was the navy's "what they meant was, their mission had been
>accomplished!"
>
>Dad
>
>I watched him, I watched him, I watched him . . 11:00 AM!
>

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:13 am

With the hope that this won't seem too alarmist, I submit this from an email I received yesterday:

> New attack about to happen?
>
> From: the Peacewatchers at USAFs Fairford and
> Wellford bases in the UK
>
> Since Saturday, people in the Highlands of Scotland
> have been witnessing
> large movements of U.S. warplanes overhead.
> Experienced observers say the large numbers are
> reminiscent of those that
> preceded the bombing of
> Iraq in 1998 and military strikes on Libya in
> the1980's as well as the first
> Gulf War.
>
> During the weekend warplanes were flying over at a
> rate of roughly one every
> 15 minutes. As well as watching them from the
> ground the plane spotters have also been able to
> overhear pilots talking by
> listening to their radio frequencies. At this rate
> some 288
> warplanes would have passed over Scotland in three
> days.
>
> It is thought that the planes have flown on a route
> from the U.S. over the
> north pole to bases in Europe and the Mediterranean.
> The size and
> scale of the movement suggests that the U.S. may be
> preparing to strike at a
> country in the Middle East in the next week to ten
> days.
>

Now, this might be total bunk. But I want to post it publicly in case something does happen in the near future... Make of it what you will.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:19 am

> New attack about to happen?

Well, Shrub's approval rating has dropped to about 50%, so you can pretty much guarantee they're going to do something incredibly insane.

rogue agent · Post by **rogue agent** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:49 pm

Patience wrote:> New attack about to happen?
> During the weekend warplanes were flying over at a
> rate of roughly one every
> 15 minutes. As well as watching them from the
> ground the plane spotters have also been able to
> overhear pilots talking by
> listening to their radio frequencies. At this rate
> some 288
> warplanes would have passed over Scotland in three
> days.

These are the fighter/bombers that went to Iraq & dropped 500 lb bombs outside Tikrit in retaliation for shooting down the helicopter. I don't think they actually hit anything but were just supposed to rattle the windows.

RA

JohnnyB · Post by **JohnnyB** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:07 am

From the Boston Globe today

"Meantime, in the streets of Baghdad the euphoria continues. "I thank God for letting me live to this day to see this," writes an Iraqi blogger named Alaa. "This, surely, is the mother of all days for us." Others are at a loss for words. A friend of Alaa's simply wrote, "I don't know what to say . . . I am confused . . . no . . . I am very happy . . . I am very happy . . . I am very happy . . . I am very happy . . ."

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:49 am

Hope you are right Johnny,Sincerely -

But also meantime today the streets of bagdhad saw sixteen unarmed protesters shot dead as they ran from troops and yesterday two more suicide car bombings...cut off the head of a hydra y'know?

Still...good news for sure.

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:06 am

Oil, Water, a Woman, a mis-spoke word...

Be vigilant, be prepared, be armed, be ready to kill.

Learn how to shoot a pistol, a rifle, and a shotgun and learn ho to clean them.

Buy a gun, better buy a few, and a good amount of loaded rounds.

Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself.

Burning Man is a test of extremes.

People die every day, sometimes its Darwinism at work.

No matter how meek the sheep are, the wolf will still slaughter them.

Man is another beast in the animal kingdom.

Mike

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:25 pm

I thought real life was a test of Burning Man.

que.f.o. · Post by **que.f.o.** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:46 pm

If life is a test of Burning Man, I generally think "we're" failing. Our culture is a long ways from the crest of the learning curve. Occasionally I get a glimpse of positive movement/change that gives me hope. But then events/attitudes such as ignoring global warming, non-bid contracts to Shrub's cronies, or even having a mining related private company do an assessment for land use in the Steens Mountains, pops up and blows me away. Maybe we will figure it out before we destroy ourselves but I'm not putting any money on it.

enthropic · Post by **enthropic** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:40 am

And What would you do. Untill we have a massive change in world preception, The path is set. The problem is Human perception..

Everthing is system based. One small disturbance can throw off order of millions.

It is this that must be installed in the human mind set.

This is possible!

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:44 am

Oil, Water, a Woman, a mis-spoke word...

Be vigilant, be prepared, be armed, be ready to kill.

Learn how to shoot a pistol, a rifle, and a shotgun and learn ho to clean them.

Buy a gun, better buy a few, and a good amount of loaded rounds.

Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself.

Burning Man is a test of extremes.

People die every day, sometimes its Darwinism at work.

No matter how meek the sheep are, the wolf will still slaughter them.

Man is another beast in the animal kingdom.

Mike

Jesus, what the hell is this meant to be about - "get your head out of your ass", perhaps you should take your own advice or perhaps you should seek psychiatric help - not sure - "be prepared, be armed and be ready to kill" -are you like suffering from a negative attitude Mike or what? "Burning man is a test of extremes" er, burning man in fact is a lot of generally very well off or at least pretty financially solvent people bringing a lot of food and water into the desert to make art and have a good time, and it is fantastic for that. I am not sure how 'extreme' it is once you are camped with provisions - "Buy a gun / Be vigilant"

sheesh pal who are you Judge Dread? "Buy a gun" blow it out yer derrier man, I mean c'mon - who gives a fuck - chill the fuck out dude.

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:51 am

Oil, Water, a Woman, a mis-spoke word...

Be vigilant, be prepared, be armed, be ready to kill.

Learn how to shoot a pistol, a rifle, and a shotgun and learn ho to clean them.

Buy a gun, better buy a few, and a good amount of loaded rounds.

Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself.

Burning Man is a test of extremes.

People die every day, sometimes its Darwinism at work.

No matter how meek the sheep are, the wolf will still slaughter them.

Man is another beast in the animal kingdom.

Mike

Jesus, what the hell is this meant to be about - "get your head out of your ass", perhaps you should take your own advice or perhaps you should seek psychiatric help - not sure - "be prepared, be armed and be ready to kill" -are you like suffering from a negative attitude Mike or what? "Burning man is a test of extremes" er, burning man in fact is a lot of generally very well off or at least pretty financially solvent people bringing a lot of food and water into the desert to make art and have a good time, and it is fantastic for that. I am not sure how 'extreme' it is once you are camped with provisions - "Buy a gun / Be vigilant"

sheesh pal who are you Judge Dread? "Buy a gun" blow it out yer derrier man, I mean c'mon - who gives a fuck - chill the fuck out dude.

enthropic · Post by **enthropic** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:08 am

I havent posted much. And I havent been a forum member long. I have only gone home once. However it sounds lto me, my apeish friend that you have never been. Otherwise you wouldent harsh & judge others EXPRESSIONS! take it in taste it spit it out and leave it for what it is worth...

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:45 am

Yarbles to you! I'm on the synthemesc my brother...

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:12 am

I don't see a thing wrong with 68barracuda's comments. Chimp, 68B comes from a land where things work a little bit differently than the UK. Consider the source, what you know of his background, etc, and then form an opinion. He doesn't need psych help, he's right on everything he posted.

enthropic · Post by **enthropic** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:45 pm

Kinetic II wrote:I don't see a thing wrong with 68barracuda's comments. Chimp, 68B comes from a land where things work a little bit differently than the UK. Consider the source, what you know of his background, etc, and then form an opinion. He doesn't need psych help, he's right on everything he posted.

Thank You...!

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:22 am

I've read and re-read it, and it still sounds pretty nutty to me.

The following is implied by 68Barracuda/enthropic:

If you don't own a gun and are not ready to kill someone with it, then you need to get your head out of your ass and learn to think for yourself.

Utter bullshit. Many of us can think for ourselves, and believe that an "armed populace" is ridiculous an unnecessary for a nation that is practically impenetrable to a land assault--unless, that is, you are expecting a sudden Canadian invasion. When I think for myself, I come to the conclusion that I don't need or want a gun, and that the culture of fear in this country is the main factor, not any actual threat or danger, that convinces people that they do need to possess lethal weapons of force.

Further, the Darwinism comment, followed by the wolf slaughtering the sheep comment, looks like an attempt to justify the subjugation of the powerless by the powerful.

Again, utter bullshit. This is like saying that it's "natural" for powerful nations to take advantage of weaker nations. It's not. It's an option. The powers-that-be in the U.S. have decided to take that option and use their already considerable power to amass even more power by targeting a nation that happens to have a lot of oil (which we want) and a (former) leader who we didn't like. This doesn't have a thing to do with Darwinism. It's about empire building, and it doesn't have to be that way.

As far as the "Burning Man is a test of extremes" comment is concerned, it just reminds me why I'm glad there's a no firearm rule at BM:

Nutcases loose in the desert with guns.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:38 am

Nutcases loose in the desert with guns.

Hmmm... I smell a possible theme for 2004 here!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:53 am

68barracuda wrote:Oil, Water, a Woman, a mis-spoke word...

Be vigilant, be prepared, be armed, be ready to kill.

Learn how to shoot a pistol, a rifle, and a shotgun and learn ho to clean them.

Buy a gun, better buy a few, and a good amount of loaded rounds.

Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself.

Burning Man is a test of extremes.

People die every day, sometimes its Darwinism at work.

No matter how meek the sheep are, the wolf will still slaughter them.

Man is another beast in the animal kingdom.

Mike

Mike I find this sad. Describing yourself as 'another beast in the animal kingdom' means to me that you have accepted the worldview of those who would rule by force, and justify exploitation and killing as the natural order of things.

We are not sheep, nor wolves. We are humans, endowed with the ability to choose what our actions will be. Though we may have instincts, conditioned responses, and biological imperatives, it is our ability to set those aside, choose our actions, and work together that has resulted in our success in becoming the dominant life form on the planet. That is Darwinist.

Darwinism is about life's tendency to promote more life, not killing.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:07 am

Dear Nipsey,

The very fact of (y)our living in the ghoulish & fey City by the Bay signifies that a number of people triumphed, failed, lived, died, worked, conceived, etc. at the point of a gun to yield the petrol that ran the truck that met the plane that dropped the packets that became the bindles that went up the nostrils of the dot-com paper millionaires that pumped steroids into the economy that once supported lusers like US in The City That Knows Jack Shit.

IE: point blank, back of the head, please.

Cordially,

Bob

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:55 pm

aha ha ha.

Such a thing.

He says 'be prepared'. he says see the extremes and try to be ready to meet them--and beat them.

And it CAN require a gun. Or several.

An unarmed populace is a populace that is easy to oppress? See that? Probably not.

Justice belongs to the strong. This is a fact, no debate required--even the 'social justice' that gets so much airtime is a product of strength The weak can only hope that those who are strong are benevolent.

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:05 pm

Patience wrote:When I think for myself, I come to the conclusion that I don't need or want a gun, and that the culture of fear in this country is the main factor, not any actual threat or danger, that convinces people that they do need to possess lethal weapons of force.

Thanks for saying this Patience. And I'd like to add that as a person who's struggled with major depression for half her life, the idea that having a gun makes me safer doesn't hold much water. The 17 times more likely to die by a bullet if you have a gun stat may or may not include suicide, I've forgotten. But I can be fairly certain I'd have more chance of using it on myself than on any potential oppressor.

(BTW, I wonder what the chances of a "strongman" being welcomed into power after the chaos of mass gun ownership and violence are.)

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:16 pm

Bob wrote:Dear Nipsey,

The very fact of (y)our living in the ghoulish & fey City by the Bay signifies that a number of people triumphed, failed, lived, died, worked, conceived, etc. at the point of a gun to yield the petrol that ran the truck that met the plane that dropped the packets that became the bindles that went up the nostrils of the dot-com paper millionaires that pumped steroids into the economy that once supported lusers like US in The City That Knows Jack Shit.

Bob, I'm trying to understand how somebody conceiving at the point of a gun yields petrol, but I think I see where you're coming from.

However, I don't see where the gun was necessary in that equation, seeing as petrol is for sale.

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:35 am

Lurker wrote -

He says 'be prepared'. he says see the extremes and try to be ready to meet them--and beat them.

And it CAN require a gun. Or several.

An unarmed populace is a populace that is easy to oppress? See that? Probably not.

Justice belongs to the strong. This is a fact, no debate required--even the 'social justice' that gets so much airtime is a product of strength The weak can only hope that those who are strong are benevolent.

Er, I guess Ghandi was just pissing in the wind then?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:07 pm

Er, I guess Ghandi was just pissing in the wind then?

My father was a statesman, I’m a political woman.
My father was a saint. I’m not.

- Indira Gandhi (as quoted by Oriana Fallaci)

WAR! What is it good for?

smirkingchimp.com

Addendum to Reelection Resume

What it was good for