Bamboozled

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:38 pm

Im building a fairly large Tiki Bar this year and need some advice on working with bamboo. The uprights are 2" thick poles which need to support a palm thatch roof that weighs, maybe 40-50 lbs. Im afraid to drill into the poles because they may splinter. Thinking I will have to attach the roof with rope but Im not sure this will withstand Playa winds at their worst.

Does anyone have experience working with bamboo? Can I safely drill holes in it?

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:18 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:Im building a fairly large Tiki Bar this year and need some advice on working with bamboo. The uprights are 2" thick poles which need to support a palm thatch roof that weighs, maybe 40-50 lbs. Im afraid to drill into the poles because they may splinter. Thinking I will have to attach the roof with rope but Im not sure this will withstand Playa winds at their worst.

Does anyone have experience working with bamboo? Can I safely drill holes in it?

VICC had a bamboo strucuture that was VERY simple. Basically we put two screws into the "top" of the four upright support polls and then laid two parrallel bamboo beams across the screws, and zip tied them to the upright. Next you take the two remaing beams and lay them perpendicular and on top of the two other beams and zip tie those beams to both the upright and the initial beams.

VICC used sheets of fabric which we sewed so it had a pass through pocket that we could slide the polls through to create the roof.

Cheers!

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:19 pm

By the way, the bottom of the bamboo polls were heavily duct taped to rebar that was in the ground.

This structure, while wobbly, never collapsed.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:41 pm

I do not see any problem with drilling holes in bamboo as long as they are not too big. Since it is hollow I would mark the location on both sides and drill each side seperately if drilling it with a hand drill. Small holes will not present a problem. With larger holes the drill may "bite" into the bamboo and twist it out of your hands. I would run the drill at the higher RPMs if it is variable speed and try not to push through to fast.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:33 pm

thanks for the tips.. (keep 'em coming actually.) I get really paranoid when building for the playa because high wind has always given me the heebeegeebies as a kid and I certainly don't want to be the bozo whose tiki bar takes out someones Toyota---or their eye. More so with this project as the roof is 8 wide and 6 feet deep, so presents a big surface area to the wind.

I have seen palapa shades at Burning man...thinking Star Fucker's Louge for one. Is real palm thatch too moopy?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:55 pm

Lush Camp used tons of palm fronds, I'm sure they're okay.

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Wed May 30, 2007 6:21 am

you can also duct tape it before you drill ( and yes use high speed) I made a tiki bar out of bamboo in multiple widths I used duct tape for the ones that seemed to have thin skin. Worked great as well as gave the bamboo xtra strength.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:00 am

You don't need to drill the bamboo and use screws. The bamboo in the scaffolding seen in Asian metropolises is lashed together. I'd suggest good strong hemp twine for this. It will give in the wind, rather than crack.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:37 am

Bamboo tiki bar update:

I used U-bolts to clamp the base of my bamboo poles to the bar to avoid drilling and the use of screws, and used manilla rope to lash the roof to the top of the bamboo poles. The rope job up top is incredibly tight and I suspect the bamboo would break before the rope fails. In other words, I think this is pretty wind-worthy. I will duct tape the legs securely to 3' rebar ounded into the Playa. I'll post photos when I finish thatching.
Thanks for the help

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:13 pm

Re: palm fronds:
http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... lants.html
http://www.burningman.com/environment/p ... intro.html
http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... iance.html

Somebody should write an FAQ for tiki bars, I guess.

At least you can burn the fuckers.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:40 pm

i think the palm fronds should be okay because they are pretty stout and sturdy, and sewn meticulously to form panels. Just in case, however, I'll get some clear nylon netting and throw over the top, or, perhaps give the underside a good coat of poly urethane to secure everything down real good.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:59 pm

"Lush Camp used tons of palm fronds, I'm sure they're okay."

That one gets a howl.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:05 pm

bits of broken mirror glued to cloth makes a great covering too. worked pretty good for the greeters one year.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:10 pm

Cryptic Geekster, why does that get a howl?

Also, I have been saying "palm fronds" when I mean "palm thatch." The difference being the construction and reinforcement found in the latter.

Star Fuckers had several palm palapas last year and no one kvetched about it

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:29 pm

If you have natural palm fronds and I am on gate, you might have a little trouble getting them in, it is definitely going to involve a discussion with someone. The palm fronds at Lush camp created the biggest fucking mess of moop seen on the playa in a long time, I think. Bob was being sarcastic.

From the first link Bob provided:

"Leave your live plants behind. Leave behind ANYTHING that will break up and/or blow away in the wind, living or dead (trees, twigs, loose paper, palm fronds, etc.)"

Did you look at the links he provided? Burning the tiki bars is not a bad idea. Burning them in the D lot is a much better idea.

DoctorIknow · Post by **DoctorIknow** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:31 pm

If you drill holes anywhere, put some good masking tape around the spots for the holes and it may prevent huge splinters (with razor sharp edges!) from happening on the exit hole. It is best to drill from both sides instead of from one side, but that takes a jig you'd have to make. One can use a long bit (not the more readily available 3-5 inch ones) and that may help to line up the cordless drill at a better "angle." Hopefully, you can drill the holes on the ground, so you can have someone eyeball your drill bit in relation to the bamboo. You could also make a "centering ruler" with a piece of fabric or rope with different markings distanced equally from the zero in the middle. Put the center on your single drilled hole, stretch the fabric or twine around the 'boo, find similar marks (or numbers, or letters) and make a mark between the closest ones, and drill it. (Hope that made sense LOL)

If bolts or screws thru these holes are going to carry significant weight, maybe add fiber tape above and below the 'boo holes.

If there are any major splits in the uprights, use some fiber tape. I'm sure duct tape would work fine, but fiber tape surely is stronger for that kind of application. However, for affixing the 'boo to the rebar, if that's your direction, I agree that duct tape is better, as that tiny bit of extra "give" may be just what's needed to let the structure stretch just a little more before failure. BTW, be sure to leave rebar far enough OUT of the playa so that two 'boo nodes can be secured. It wouldn't be good to have the major stress loaded between nodes (node distances dependent on 'boo, but I'd say have about 2 feet of rebar exposed. Thick rebar, too!)

You might want to do some lashing, and here is a great little video for that:
http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/gvt033.asp

Here's a good knot for ropes you may want to incorporate

[img][img]http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5619/moorgnx4.gif[/img][/img]

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed May 30, 2007 7:40 pm

It might seem intuitive that plant matter might be "in theme" but you have to keep in mind that none of that stuff is native to the playa environment. It is going to dessicate in a hurry and become brittle. Then it breaks or flakes and stuff goes flying everywhere. Then the BLM does their post-event inspection and finds all this plant matter (what hasn't blown all the way to Soldier Meadow) and then suddenly BM is no longer in compliance with the permit. Leave it home.

instead you might try something made of plastic that was created from 100% organic crude oil.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:31 am

I was being *ironic*, not *sarcastic*.

Just giving a heads-up on what might be allowed or not by the Green Nazis. Every year the org makes some kind of noise about something you people might be doing wrong. That's what makes them the org, and you're not. Meanwhile, the same year they bitch at you about trash this and moop that, they give $40,000 art grants to guys who leave literally tons of trash behind for other people to clean up. So, just tell them at Gate that your tiki bar is made from solar-powered recycled whale hemp and you have my word they'll wave you through with a big thumbs-up.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:26 am

[quote="geekster"]Did you look at the links he provided?[quote]

Of course I looked at the links. Like I say, the thatch is sewn every few inches to form a rigid mat. They are not palm fronds flipping around in the breeze. What I have is basic roofing material in tropical countries that experience sustained winds as great as or greater than what you see in the playa. Trust me, just because a place is "third-world" doesn't mean that everything that comes from there is cheap and shoddy.

Did you have any problem with the palapas at Star Fuckers? Those were much less secure than my mats. I saw those palapas weather out a dust storm with no loss of material.

Anyhooo, I will experiment with using clear polyurethane over (or under) the thatch mats to make them one solid hard-rigid mass (and work on identifying how to spot you at the gate.

)

Bottom line: If I thought these mats were going to moop I wouldn't bring them. They didn't moop two days ago when Denver got covered in white with marble-sized hail. Believe me, winds were whipping pretty darn hard then.

Thanks to all for the tips, the Bar looks awesome!

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:14 am

The thing is that because of the theme this year, there has been some talk that there might be more plant material being brought onto the playa but I haven't heard anything specific yet about things being different as far as allowance for such materials.

Yes, that stuff is used as thatching in a tropical area but the playa isn't exactly tropical. The humidity is much lower and that stuff will become brittle in a hurry. If it is secured at several points along the length of the thatching, it might not be a problem but if you can lift a significant unattached length of it, then it is likely to dry and break.

Last year was also relatively tame as far as winds go. Get a day long sustained blow of 30mph or better and you might find it behaves differently than intended.

I am really not meaning to be a hardass so much as I would like for you to really put some thought into it before you bring it to the playa. I wouldn't want to see you put a ton of effort into something and then be told you can't bring it in. I would rather see stuff get in there and be enjoyed by everyone. My intention is to help you avoid a problem and see your art on the playa.

Generally speaking, organic plant matter unless it is tightly woven in some way is a moop issue.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:37 am

thanks Geekster, I appreciate that. I too hate Moop and dont want BM to have permitting issues. If necessary, I'll strap the tiki roof to my car and cruise up and down I-25 to check its demoopworthiness.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:00 pm

And Bob has a legitimate point and one I peronally agree with when he said:

"they give $40,000 art grants to guys who leave literally tons of trash behind for other people to clean up. "

It seems the "kewl kids" can get away with doing exactly the opposite of what they preach to everyone else and they bitch at the single individual who has been working all year in their spare time to bring something much smaller out there.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:11 pm

All I'm saying is it's about time the org came out one way or the other about tiki-fu. They can't even make up their minds about tiki torches. Surely an FAQ page is in order.

Re: bamboo poles, I'd plug the ends w/ loose wood dowels (eg closet rod) set in epoxy & apply polyurethane varnish, but that's just me.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:17 pm

Or if you have old PVC tubing laying around you can whip up some "bamboozle"...Using a MAPP or propane torch, heat up 1" sections of the PVC (at semi-regular intervals, rotating the pipe so it doesn't burn) and then push it together to create bambooesque segments. With a little practice you can make fairly convincing faux'boo, and you can also weld short scraps together to make longer pieces, thus using those little cut bits that are otherwise difficult to find a home for. This is a technique that I originally discovered with glass tubing, when making neon signs for a Tiki bar...

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:03 am

Well. I think that I might get a large drink, plant myself in a chair on the esplanade and vegitate for a day. Hope I don't dry up and blow away.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:13 am

Here's how I solved my bamboo dilema: The Bar has four legs made of Redwood 4x4s. I used a boring bit and drilled out a 2 inch (approx) hole in the top of each foot. Then stuck 1 1/4 pvc into the holes and secured them with wood srews. Slid bamboo over PVC and glued into place with Goop. Secured mid sections of bamboo to bar top with U-bolts and drilled holes in the bar surface for the uprights to pass through. Up top, used heavy manilla rope to lash roof frame to bamboo poles. Solid.

Moop issues: I will use clear polyurethane and coat the palm thatch panels heavily to create a solid mass that, hopefully, will retain its natural look. If that doesn't work, I'll leave the plam thatch at home and shingle the roof with small diameter bamboo poles.

Stop by the Mile High Club for a mai tai!

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:13 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:Im building a fairly large Tiki Bar this year and need some advice on working with bamboo.

UPDATE: The tiki bar turned out really great! Im updating to let you know that the palm thatch panels for the roof did not moop as I feared. I erected the bar in the corner of our shade structure so it was protected to some degree. I picked up maybe four small strands of palm during the entire week.

So, if you're planning on using thatch, make sure its the kind that's woven into mats, the moopage is very very minimal, if at all.

barnz · Post by **barnz** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:33 pm

How 'bout a photo Teo?

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:39 pm

How do you add photos to a post? Sorry to be a dummmass
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/milehi ... w/bbbd?b=1[/s][/url]

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:34 pm

That link doesn't work for me, big endless loop .
To post your pics, use a public site like photobucket to upload, then
use the codes that are provided under your images for posting.

Bamboozled

Bamboozled

Re: Bamboozled

Drillin' and tape'n' 'boo

Re: Bamboozled