Busted by the cops at the burn

[rogue agent]

Blackrock Lover, great story. At BM 1999, I was arrested for posession of ecstasy, (I had 15 pills... gawd bless Manchester and it's cheap drugs), and the official who turned me in was wearing nothing but a tophat with a silver feather on it. Granted, being arrested is no fun, but being arrested by a naked guy in a pimp hat is quite a funny anecdote in retrospect.

Blackrock Lover,

Is this a common undercover (or lack thereof) tactic?

Sure it is...didn't you see the Burningman episode of Reno 911?

RA

[Blackrock Lover]

Oh, I don't think it's common. I can't think of anywhere else it would work!!

[captainerotica]

I am the organizer of the Critical Tits Post Ride Party

I have therefore some pretty intense experience as an organizer in BRC.

I have a plan for having a major, non-violent action by the citizens of BRC
that is designed to have a huge impact on the amount of activity by the LEO's at burning man.

The plan will not involve doing anything that is illegal.
The plan will not require more than 10 minutes of any one citizens time.
The plan will be easily communicated and executed by everyone.

In these times, as the forces of government are looming larger and larger, we must remember that BRC, while subject to state and federal laws is a very different place than most cities. The very elements of freedom, improvisation and interaction with fellow citizens which lead to us being so heavily policied are all tools we can use to put the energy back on the LEO's.

I am not going to post the plan at this time or in this medium.
The plan is going to be very simple and very well and widely known by the time we return home to BRC next fall...

The purpose of this post is not to share the plan. It is to inform the people who are interested in this subject that some very powerful forces of goodness are bending their minds toward a very cool, peaceful, legal and FUN solutoin to the increased LEO activity at burning man in recent years....The purpose of this post is to inspire HOPE that we can have some reverse impact on those who are impacting our magic so heavily...

In love and service
Captain Erotica

[SED]

Yer gonna dose 'em, aren't ya?

[Chai Guy]

I have a plan for having a major, non-violent action by the citizens of BRC that is designed to have a huge impact on the amount of activity by the LEO's at burning man.

This is because you feel LEO activity is too excessive at Burning Man?
What would kind of LEO activity would you like to see?

...increased LEO activity at burning man in recent years...

Actually, it would appear that LEO activity (or at least tickets and arrests) have DECREASED in recent years.

http://www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca/press_ ... r03-46.htm

Law enforcement at the event is conducted primarily by BLM and the Pershing County Sheriff’s office in cooperation with other State and county law enforcement offices. State and federal laws pertaining to illegal drug use are strictly enforced. This year BLM rangers issued a total of 177 citations and made five arrests (down 25% from last year). One of the arrests resulted in a federal grand jury indictment for distribution of ecstasy. Of the total citations, 102 were for drug related offenses (also down by 25% from 2002), 53 for violations of closure orders (down 10% from a year ago), and the remainder for miscellaneous violations.

The Pershing County Sheriff’s office issued nine citations to eight individuals (up from the four citations issued last year) and made five arrests. Three of the citations related to possession or use of unlawful drugs or drug paraphernalia, one for simple battery, one for destruction of private property, one for unlawful trespass, and three for fireworks violations. The arrests included three for sex acts in public, one for trespass, and one on a failure to appear warrant from the Nevada Highway Patrol.

So let's see out of 30,586 at a 7 day event (yes, not all 30,586 people were there for all 7 days) people 186 tickets were issued and 10 people were arrested.

For Comparisson, the City of Cheyenne, Wyoming populaton 53,658 arrested 4,441 people in 2002. About half of those were summons so figure about 2,200 actual arrests. Divide that by 52 weeks and you get about 42 arrests per week, go ahead and divide that by 2 (because of Cheyenne's larger population, approximately 23,000 more people) and you still have 21 arrests for an average week, or 11 more than at Burning Man.

http://www.cheyennecity.org/yearend.htm

It's probably not the best comparrisson, I'm sure I could come up with something better if I had more time, but it gives you a rough idea.

[Badger]

Sweet one Chai.

[Chai Guy]

This one is a little closer in numbers to our population.

Elk Grove Village, Illinois Population: 34,727 (2000 Census)

11 arrests this week.

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo ... olice.html

[Blackrock Lover]

Oh sure, make us look like slackers.......

I must say I didn't realize we were impacting magic?

[Don Muerto]

Remember too that nobody likes to be made a fool of. You might end up *inciting* increased LEO activity in the long run.

[epic]

I was sitting on the ground between esplanade and the man eating fruit and muffin peices out of a bag. Two cops walk up from the dark, tell me I'm eating mushrooms which I deny. They search my bag without asking, and I ask them if I have probable cause. They said yes and left. A ranger walked up afterwards and said the cops had being punks.
I should have got their badge numbers, agency and names and reported it to the sheriff or internal affairs dept. but I thought 1. I might be detained for hours, handcuffed as revenge in BM jail and/or 2. Maybe it was legal. Was it?
Also saw cops strolling through camps during the day, guessing that they were looking listening and smelling for pot. BE VERY DISCRETE!!
I think it is moronic to have BM on public land and open it to 7? seperate law enforfcement agencies. If it were on private land with private security I don't think cops could enter at will, is that correct? There'd still be undercover pigs, obvioulsy. Also would it be looser if it was in another state other than Nevada?

[Chai Guy]

Maybe it was legal. Was it?

The the 4th ammendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

has been interpreted in many different ways, from different courts.
http://www.flexyourrights.org/facts/4th ... cases.html

http://www.iml.org/legalsection/topics/ ... /ussct.htm


As for having the event in another state, well, I'm sure California would represent an insurance nightmare, and I'm not sure it gets any "looser" than a state that has legalized gambling and prostitution.

As for having it on private land- that has it's own legal problems. (Rave Act anyone?)

Some have suggested Tribal land, and I believe the event may have been held on Tribal land one year, but again, more problems than solutions.

[epic]

This is what flexyourrights.org says, but the term reasonable suspicion is vary vague. Most cops think will think they have reasonable suspicion of most people all the time! Is looking suspicious always a cause to search?
"Reasonable suspicion Facts or circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to suspect that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed

At this stage, police may detain the suspect for a brief period and perform a frisk. In some cases, drug-sniffing dogs may be called to the scene, although officers must cite a reason for suspecting the presence of drug evidence in particular. Refusing a search does not create reasonable suspicion, although acting nervous and answering questions inconsistently can. For this reason, it is best not to answer questions if you have to lie in order to do so. Police authority increases if they catch you in a lie, but not if you refuse to answer questions. As a general rule, reasonable suspicion applies to situation in which police have reason to believe you’re up to something, but they don’t know what it is.

Probable cause Facts or evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed and the person arrested is responsible

At this stage, police may perform a search, and often an arrest. Probable cause generally means police know what crime they suspect you of and have discovered evidence to support that belief. Common examples include seeing or smelling evidence which is in plain view, or receiving an admission of guilt for a specific crime.

For the conscientious citizen, the best advice regarding police authority is to stick to your guns and not waive your constitutional rights under any circumstances. Police officers will often give misleading descriptions of what their authority is, but you have nothing to gain by submitting to coercive police tactics. Police must make ad hoc decisions in the streets regarding their authority level in a given situation and these decisions are subject to review in court. Asserting your rights properly is good way to avoid arrest, but it is an even better way to avoid a conviction."

[LeChatNoir]

Asserting your rights properly is good way to avoid arrest, but it is an even better way to avoid a conviction.

Damn good point...

M

[harleyb]

This is what flexyourrights.org says, but the term reasonable suspicion is vary vague. Most cops think will think they have reasonable suspicion of most people all the time! Is looking suspicious always a cause to search?
"Reasonable suspicion Facts or circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to suspect that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed

At this stage, police may detain the suspect for a brief period and perform a frisk. In some cases, drug-sniffing dogs may be called to the scene, although officers must cite a reason for suspecting the presence of drug evidence in particular. Refusing a search does not create reasonable suspicion, although acting nervous and answering questions inconsistently can. For this reason, it is best not to answer questions if you have to lie in order to do so. Police authority increases if they catch you in a lie, but not if you refuse to answer questions. As a general rule, reasonable suspicion applies to situation in which police have reason to believe you’re up to something, but they don’t know what it is.

Probable cause Facts or evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed and the person arrested is responsible

At this stage, police may perform a search, and often an arrest. Probable cause generally means police know what crime they suspect you of and have discovered evidence to support that belief. Common examples include seeing or smelling evidence which is in plain view, or receiving an admission of guilt for a specific crime.

For the conscientious citizen, the best advice regarding police authority is to stick to your guns and not waive your constitutional rights under any circumstances. Police officers will often give misleading descriptions of what their authority is, but you have nothing to gain by submitting to coercive police tactics. Police must make ad hoc decisions in the streets regarding their authority level in a given situation and these decisions are subject to review in court. Asserting your rights properly is good way to avoid arrest, but it is an even better way to avoid a conviction."

Good info! I (unfortunately) live in Mesa, AZ. AZ has pretty much handed over our rights to our infamous county sheriff, Jo(k)e Arpio (sp? I hope so!). Probable cause out here is being out after midnight on a weekend. We have roadblocks where they check everyone! You *used* to have the "right" to refuse a blood alcohol test; no more. If you refuse, you lose your license for 1 year, AND they get a court order and take your blood ANYWAY! This elected official gets in every year by the vote of the old folks in Sun City and Young Town (great name for a retirement community, eh?). Got save us, he almost ran for governor! The Japanese have a saying: "The nail that sticks up gets hit". No where is it more true than in Arizona if you dare to stand up for your rights and say, "You can't do that!". You had better have a lot of time and $$$ if you do.

Bill

[Guest]

This is in response to Precipitate's Sept. 4 post: He/she posted:
Frankly I find it funny when people go whining about getting a ticket for something they know to be illegal. Idiot tax.

I really hope this is not the prevailing sentiment at BM. If so, I don't wish to go. I really hope I don't run into this person. They just don't seem kind. I think that life is too short to be a sheep and listen to what some right wing fanatic with no drug experience tells you is bad for YOU. I think what Precipitate needs is a nice looooong puff. Maybe that will relax him for a while and make him tolerable.

[Isotopia]

They just don't seem kind. I think that life is too short to be a sheep and listen to what some right wing fanatic with no drug experience tells you is bad for YOU. I think what Precipitate needs is a nice looooong puff. Maybe that will relax him for a while and make him tolerable.

Though probably not a prevailing sentiment, it's one that a good number of people harbor. That doesn't make them 'good or 'bad' by any measure and 'kindness' really doesn't have shit to do with it either. Looks like your're already half-cocked with fairly naive and myopic perceptions about an event (and its attendees) that you, as an admitted first-timer, are unfamiliar with. BTW, your equating someone with no drug 'experience' as a 'right wing fanatic' is especially lame.

I really hope this is not the prevailing sentiment at BM. If so, I don't wish to go. I really hope I don't run into this person.

BTW, If you want homogeneity among a group of folks while insulating yourself from the possibility of running into Precipitate I suggest you save your money for a Rainbow Gathering or some such nonsens because you're not gonna find it on the playa.

[III]

>>They just don't seem kind.

bwaha.

telling idiots that they deserve what they get is not unkind.

really, it's not that hard to *not* get a drug ticket at burning man. tens of thousands of people do it each yer.

[III]

>>yer

i meant "year".

[Guest]

BLACK ROCK LOVER: please tell us about undercover law enforcement! Are there a lot? How many? What about road blocks to/from the playa? If my husband and I are doing something in the privacy of our own tent/vehicle, what can law enforcement do? I know if they smell something, they can bust us, but what if we're just coughing? Or laughing? Or have red eyes? Or act whacky? Do you think there are a lot of people who get away with using d r u gs at Burning Man? Would you seriously bust someone because of "reasonable suspicion"? What does reasonable suspicion mean to you??

[Guest]

Though probably not a prevailing sentiment, it's one that a good number of people harbor. That doesn't make them 'good or 'bad' by any measure and 'kindness' really doesn't have shit to do with it either. Looks like your're already half-cocked with fairly naive and myopic perceptions about an event (and its attendees) that you, as an admitted first-timer, are unfamiliar with. BTW, your equating someone with no drug 'experience' as a 'right wing fanatic' is especially lame.

Quote:
I really hope this is not the prevailing sentiment at BM. If so, I don't wish to go. I really hope I don't run into this person.


BTW, If you want homogeneity among a group of folks while insulating yourself from the possibility of running into Precipitate I suggest you save your money for a Rainbow Gathering or some such nonsens because you're not gonna find it on the playa.

_________________
_
MMkay. First let me say that I was referring to REAGAN when I said right wing with no drug experience. Remember the war on drugs? Yep, I think it's safe to call him right wing. I am not naive because I say that someone who is being negative and unkind is negative and unkind. I am simply stating my perception. Your interest in large words you think I will not understand is naive. I am an English major and just because you think you've experienced Burning Man does not mean you have really experienced it. I suggest that you keep your negative karma to yourself. I am OBVIOUSLY not wanting to insulate myself from others if I am going to Burning Man!!
And - you gave a really fragmented sentence about a Rainbow Gathering: " I suggest you save your money for a Rainbow Gathering or some such nonsens because you're not gonna find it on the playa.[/quote][/u]"
Um, not gonna find what, exactly?
I simply do not wish to meet up with people who are "already half-cocked with fairly naive and myopic perceptions " like you. Please, stay away from me.

[Isotopia]

BLACK ROCK LOVER: please tell us about undercover law enforcement! Are there a lot? How many? What about road blocks to/from the playa?

Let me answer 'yes' to all of the above.

There are undercover cops.

They arrest people.

clue time: If there were specific numbers then they wouldn't be doing a good job of being undercover. Would they?

Circumstances are always possible that law enforcement personnel can use road blocks for many reasons. There's no guarantee that they won't. There's no guarantee that you won't get searched. There's no guarantee that you will. The very questions you ask suggest to me that you're about as clueless as they come as far as coming to a public forum and all but declaring your intent to do something HIGHLY illegal in the state of Nevada. In fact, you're being really fucking stupid.

Let me reiterate; stupid.

I'm surprised that the tech team hasn't flag this as a forum that violates the community standards.
[/i]

[Guest]

I'm surprised that the tech team hasn't flag this as a forum that violates the community standards.
[/i]
Well, do you think it could be MAYBE that this is a thread for people who are talking about being busted at Burning Man? I don't think anyone has time for kids messing around on mommy's computer. Go jerk off at a porn site and come back when you're more relaxed.

[III]

>>I am an English major

heh.

heh.

[Isotopia]

Well, do you think it could be MAYBE that this is a thread for people who are talking about being busted at Burning Man? I don't think anyone has time for kids messing around on mommy's computer. Go jerk off at a porn site and come back when you're more relaxed.

Hmmmm.

hmmmm...

<Do I want to take this one out slowly and with much mess or do I want to just do it quick and easy....>

Should we do a poll?

"How Should Isotopia Take Out the Clueless Hippie Chick?"[/quote]

[Guest]

Your ego is leaking

[Badger]

Your ego is leaking

And you seem to be hemorrhaging stupidity.

[juanicoheal]

OK OK OK

If there's one thing I've learned about the eplaya - it is:
Don't piss of the folks with the high post counts. They'll rip you apart.
Wait 'til they start gangin up on you aquariumgirl. Unless you like being a troll that is.

I think the main point you should be getting is - stop pushing the subject. Any continual reference to "those things that should not be discussed" will bring more attention to them, and subsequently more heat.

BMORG must maintain an 'official' stance on the subject, or they won't get their permits to operate, and cannot be seen as advocating substance use.

Simply, from what i've been reading, your answers are:
Substances - yes they're out there, in abundance
BUT..... the accounts of policing are also abundant and out there - like don't light up on the open playa - 'they' have night vision and infrared.
Road checks - unless you are crossing the border like I will be, any law enforcement must have 'reasonable cause' to perform a search of your car/person/abode.

Reference has been made to 'smell factor'- meaning mr.greenjeans is a major target, in that smell is just cause for a search of person/camp/vehicle.

I read an account of undercover officers in another thread, and more about 'suspicious individuals' that surely weren't burners in several others...

[Rob the Wop]

1) Brownies.

2) Don't give them to cops.

3) Do NOT tell highly educated and articulate people that they are uneducated jerk-offs. It makes you look like an idiot.

4) Expect the same police presence as you would at any public park having a large gathering. IE. undercover, possible loosely defined probable cause, etc.

5) Above all REMEMBER that Nevada was a state in which (until fairly recently) ANY amount of MARIJUANA was a FELONY. Guns, prostitution, gambling, etc. is all A-OK. God help you if you have a joint.

Welcome to the "Old West". Please come again.

[Tancorix]

It's starting to smell like dirty stinking socks in here. From the use of smilies to other grammatical goofs, there's some signs that would lead me to believe Aquariumgirl is nothing more than the latest master troll's creation.

SOCK PUPPET ALERT!

[Isotopia]

<retracting claws...>