Friends are obsessed, Burning Man spirituality crap.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:56 pm

I love burning man. Except my friends are now obsessed about burning man several months out of the year and one month prior to the event they do nothing except prepare for the event. What I am seeing is that they have developed this attitude of "holier than though" with me, as if I am not "getting" what burning man is about. What I saw was a lot of drug use, plenty of sex (stories about sex), and pure hedonistic behaviors. I guess spirituality is found in the abuse of your body and sex. Who knows? It is that because I am not participating enough, I am not getting it. I am participating, not in the drugs or sex, though I had many opportunities. Look, I am saying to call it what it is, a place where mostly white trash kids party hard for one week. It would be like calling a tailgate party at a baseball game a spiritual experience. For that matter, everything is a spiritual experience but I am sick of someone using it against me, identifying so much with burning man that they become real jerks.

Do you know why so many people hate burners? Because they tell everyone who has not gone or visited that they have seen the light, have experienced something extraordinary. When in fact, they were high 90% of the time, had unprotected sex, and stunk to no end. What a bunch of losers, in the end. Great art, but the attitude has got to go. And you wonder why there is a culture war going on in this country, because people come back from burning man saying that they saw Jesus ride the magic carpet ride, but for the rest of the year, they lack compassion, are liars, can give a damn about other people, and pride themselves on being above everyone else who does not get it.

Hypocrites to no end. I am there with them but I am belittled too. Time to get new friends. This is what I donâ€™t get, why add the â€œwhat a spiritual experience it isâ€

Player · Post by **Player** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:11 am

Partying can be a spiritual experience. I'm sure drugs, incl booze, have been used in connection with vision quests and altered states ever since when.

I find my self being more and more selective with our activities and surroundings to keep our short time there positive. Sassy and I did go this year (Mon-Thurs) even though we weren't going to go up until the last minute. I'm so glad we did because it was all so incredibly good (after a few years of not so good things) and we spent some amazing quality time with each other and many close friends.

It's important where you camp and who and what's in the vicinity. There are plenty of people in BRC nowadays who would not think twice about ruining your burn.

But there are people there I see and wonder if they'll make it out alive. I saw one guy stumbling around with no shirt or water drunk out of his mind and didn't look like he even knew where he was. And there are dangerous people too. I think as BRC becomes more and more mainstream, we may lose in the quality, but it's still the most interesting place to be for Labor Day. Where else ya gonna go that week?

~ Player

The Bass · Post by **The Bass** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:05 am

gift economy

leave no trace

Hamandegger · Post by **Hamandegger** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:29 am

I agree, there is a real pecking order at the event. People trying to one up everyone else with their hipness, fake spiritual posturing. An incessant search to fill up the void with any available substance. It all boils down to money in the end. It is a given that you get the Burn you (or a generous friend) pay for. All things are offered beautiful, young women but there is always a vain expectation of some kind of sexual tit for tat inherent in that generosity. And Burning man is whiter than white. There is no cultural diversity there. Aside from a few Asian and a handful of Black attendees it is as racially pure as a Hitler Youth rally. The Nazis loved to get together and throw big parties with unrestrained beer swilling, amphetamines, and a veneer of mystical/occult mumbo jumbo.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:31 am

it could be that us white trash are the only ones stupid enough to go out in that heat and call it fun..

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:43 am

Was rednecks who made the dry lakes popular, after all.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:45 am

"Burning man was too crowded this year. Too many preps and it has gotten too dangerous because of the crowds. And the camerasâ€¦everywhere you look. Spritial my ass"

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Bin Noddin · Post by **Bin Noddin** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:52 am

mensen wrote:...snip... Time to get new friends...snip

There, you said it yourself.

playanakedartisticman420 · Post by **playanakedartisticman420** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:24 am

right arm -- i do apologize peeps i know you love bm and you (and it is very possible that you can) really believe that anyone who doesn't get the existenstial, transcending, empowering experience of bm is somehow a hater, or doesn't get it, or should move on a get their own friends. maybe these people love bm more than you do or at least love the idea that bm was based on (you know the ones you hear people preaching about at parties all year) more than you do? maybe they love it so much they are willing to see the hypocrisy and the contrived and want to bring it back to what it was originally supposed to be. this happens to any movement or cultural event that grows too big -- the uniqueness and purity of it ideaology gets watered down because the crowd is pooling from a larger pool -- not just the "fringe" edge that attendees automatically assume they belong to just because they put pasties on and a cowboy hat with christmas lights and a tribal tatoo (sorry after seeing addis's pic i had to -- how more mainstream could you get). anyway, so i guess i'm a hater too because i'm violating the spirit by saying ANYTHING negative and making generalizations about people. but why -- i mean like the original poster -- i too have seen my friends get almost cult like about bm and basically anyone not willing to drink their kool aid is treated with suspicion or cast off as a non believer --- hmmmm, there are a lot of scary parallels to some whackjobs in the non-bm world. tell me to move on, tell me i don't get it, tell me i'm a hater but at the end of the day we all know there is some truth to all of this -- i can understand why you fight so hard to hold onto this and try to keep it as pure and special as your experience may have given you -- i remember when i refused to believe that there were any selfish people in the dead scene and anyone can tell you how myopic that view was but i had my reasons. i'm not trying to destroy your bm or harsh your mellow or nothing -- i'm just fed up with the "holier than thou" attitude people take in defense of bm -- how dare i speak out against it and if i do then i should be prepared to receive your wrath or simply be told to shut up and go away -- nice, real nice, exactly the kind of community i want to be a part of. i think a lot of bm supporters really need to take real long hard look at themselves and this celebration and see it for what is has become. can you still have a great experience, meet great people, have fun, unwind, learn, grow, cry, laugh etc. of course you can -- but stop acting like this is some secret counter culture event that only the world's truly enlightened and spiritually aware people can understand sheesh!

now, defend yourselves, dismiss me a hater, or republican, or non believer, or just tell me to go home. the lid is off folks and the truth is coming out so you won't silence us all and i'll be the first one to announce that in the san francisco bay area it is o.k. to say something bad about b.m. -- i won't think you are a hater or that you have no right or ability to say what you say and you know what, i'll still go and have a blast while all the true bm rs can spend their time blindly defending their shangri la on

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:40 am

mensen wrote:Look, I am saying to call it what it is, a place where mostly white trash kids party hard for one week.

If you don't like white trash there, remove yourself from the event and that will be one less white trash type there.

How do you like people generalizing about YOU?

-zb

playanakedartisticman420 · Post by **playanakedartisticman420** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:43 am

touche partner -- you definitely put me in my place. hit a little too close to home -- i can't say i'm shocked -- but i'll be seeing your arse out there next year if for anything so you can have at least one more reason to say that people like me are what is ruining bm. big kiss

Bin Noddin · Post by **Bin Noddin** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:25 pm

Playanakedetcetcetc - I don't disagree with anything you say, including the fact that some people are too thin-skinned to accept criticism of BM. If we love BM, we should be able keep an open mind about the many views of both its philosophy and the way it manifests itself at the event. It is a creative expression, a party, a spiritual experience - but in different people these elements will manifest themselves in different proportions. Some (like Mensen's "friends") clearly go off the deep end in one direction at the expense of the other two. BM isn't a sacred cow and a sense of perspective and humor have to be maintained about it. Hammer away.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:25 pm

[quote="Bin Noddin"]Playanakedetcetcetc - I don't disagree with anything you say, including the fact that some people are too thin-skinned to accept criticism of BM. If we love BM, we should be able keep an open mind about the many views of both its philosophy and the way it manifests itself at the event. It is a creative expression, a party, a spiritual experience - but in different people these elements will manifest themselves in different proportions. Some (like Mensen's "friends") clearly go off the deep end in one direction at the expense of the other two. BM isn't a sacred cow and a sense of perspective and humor have to be maintained about it. Hammer away.[/quote]

Thank you.

M

Iago · Post by **Iago** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:30 pm

And don't forget, that there is plenty of room for all of God's creatures in between the mashed potatoes and string beans......... ooops this is not the recipe thread..sooorry.......

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:38 am

This year I learned not to go with folks who are just there for the party/spectacle. They inevitably end up being soured by the experience or souring it for you. Camp with folks who are contributing and who have common cause with you on the playa. Be proud of what you are contributing there and then you will at least be happy with one small plot on the playa and those who inhabit it.

If August for you is not spent prepping and talking about the event to come then do yourself, and us, a favor and skip it. Chances are you don't care enough to get out of it what it will cost you, both financially and effort wise, and more than likely are unprepared to a degree that you will be a pain in the ass to someone out there at least once.

This has nothing to do with spirituality. It's a simple numbers game.

oh, there were 3 black guys in my camp iirc.

djero · Post by **djero** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:46 am

[quote="unjonharley"]it could be that us white trash are the only ones stupid enough to go out in that heat and call it fun..[/quote]

Heh, yeah, maybe so! What amazes me about it all is that we actually do make it fun.

I have a lot of opinions about burning man (pos and neg), which potentially lead to generalizations. I know personally some who dedicate their whole year (hell, their whole lives) to the BM experience. I don't think most of them are being exclusive for the sake of it, but when you are so into something unless someone shares your passion to a similar extent, they (we) are going to feel potentially on the outside.

What I found most amazing about the whole experience was how the creative and dedicated spirits of many (most that I met) attendees makes this inhospitable, uncomfortable and generally uninviting place into a wonderland of adventure and pleasure. I had a good time this year, and met great people, but am certainly not one to dedicate a huge amount of energy/time to BM. For those extreme people who do, well, I hope they are getting out of it what they want.

honeyfire · Post by **honeyfire** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:08 pm

Hamandegger sayed:
"Aside from a few Asian and a handful of Black attendees it is as racially pure as a Hitler Youth rally. "

The trouble with this analogy is that there's nobody at the gate at BM keeping out darker people, nor yet hanging them.
That one person does not come to an open event is not necessarily the fault of someone who did come to the event. Why would i give a rat's ass what color my neighbors are?

Stuart sayed:
"This year I learned not to go with folks who are just there for the party/spectacle."

Well, uh... yeah.
I don't actually want say "DUH", but why would anyone want to come along with people who are just there for the party/spectacle?!?
I can party in far greater comfort in my backyard, which also full of art and weirdness.
When describing BM to people the first words i use are "Giant art festival", because that's the point of the whole ghymkana as far as i'm concerned.

Stuart also sayed:
" If August for you is not spent prepping ...Chances are you ... likely are unprepared to a degree that you will be a pain in the ass..."

Heh, you got that right.
In another thread, someone suggested just ejecting people who go around begging water/food/ice/whatever off of other people.
I can't say this is not a tempting idea.

I personally don't understand the "hipper-than-thou" attitude, but i don't understand it out in the world either...

frndlyjen · Post by **frndlyjen** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:22 pm

Seems obvious to me - if you don't like Burning Man, DON'T GO!

If you don't like your friends, DON'T HANG OUT WITH THEM!

DUH!

Quit your bitching and quit hanging out on the ePlaya - find a new hobby and don't rain on our parade. You have the right to your fun/spirituality, and we have the right to ours.

Clar-i-ty · Post by **Clar-i-ty** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:31 pm

It is quite white out there on the playa. But not entirely. Around our camp we had a Filipino-American, Koreans, an entire Israel contingent, South Africans across the street and some really cute latino boys down the block who were apparently into spanking. BTW, thanks for that pork taco on Sunday. It was the best taco ever!

Oh, and there was my camp, two latina sisters, her husband, our friend the Playa God Burky, and our kids.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:46 pm

I like many of peoples main social connections are with other burner, when I first heard about Burning Man in 2003 I was moved by a feeling that I was not alone in the world that there were other people out there like me. People who didnâ€™t just want to be with others of there own kind people from all over the world, progressives , conservatives, libertarians, survivalists, anarchists , old hippies, and young ravers, scientists, and artists all coming together to build a surreal city in an inhospitable environment, at the same time build a community made up of these diverse factions. A community that can be carried into daily life the rest of the year, people I would not have had the opportunity to meet and get to know in any other way other than Burning Man. This includes people in my own community as well as people from other countries, from a wide range of ages and social strata.

I suppose in some ways it could look like a cult, particularly to those who donâ€™t have a desire to reach out of there own little comfort zone, and only see the â€œ event â€œ as just an event. People not involved , see all the time , effort, and money we put into it and compare it to the cost of a more â€œ normalâ€

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:55 pm

why would anyone want to come along with people...

because they are good friends whom I've had fine experiences with in the past and accomplished much with on the playa. It was a tough lesson for me to learn but now that I've learned it I am really looking forward to the next opportunity.

frndlyjen · Post by **frndlyjen** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:15 pm

Right on, Zulegoona!

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:42 pm

Zulegoona wrote:

The only real meaning to life is the one you give it.

Yes! And Burning Man is like Big Sky Country for that opportunity.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:45 pm

Everyone is the same color on the playa-Dusty Brown.

karine · Post by **karine** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:18 pm

A toast to you, Zulegoona!

And people ARE taking their playa experience off the playa. The Burners Without Borders, for example - took the compassion and determination and put it into teamwork in the "default world".

We do crazy stuff, as burners- and our skill sets are rockin.
We CAN use them to help our neighbors, and many do.

You think the party kids are going to get the same kind of reaction when they party at home? nah- They'll have to buy their own booze and friends have to go home... it gets old after a while. Everybody crashes. If they are lucky, a fellow burner or two will help pick them up & show them another side of their camp.

The crazy burners who build the cities and camps, the art cars and domes... they create & contribute to tribes and the make the connnections work on and off paya- they have found true friends.
It's like having a SECRET that keeps you smiling all year.

fierysage · Post by **fierysage** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:55 pm

[color=indigo][/color]
isn't spirituality (as opposed to religion) more about open-mindedness?
acceptance? embracing divinity or energy as however one may define it? (or choose not to define it)

walk your own path
enjoy your own experience
alone
with others
whatever your joy may be

if it's not for you, that's cool
if it is for you, that's cool
what ever makes you feel, live and breathe more like the you you FEEL/KNOW you are...

then there you are

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:54 pm

I'm sorry that I have pissed you off by having a spiritual experience at Burning Man. Next time I will just sit around and watch.
I also will stop talking to people about my experience, since I can't seem to do it to your satisfaction, or your way.
I guess what happens at Burning man is supposed to stay at Burning Man. Or is it Vegas?

Living the Dream.

Samsa Bee · Post by **Samsa Bee** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:22 pm

I think were all right.
There are so many different ways to experience this thing....
I felt so many diff. ways about it all week long.
"what the fuck am I doing here?"
then
"this is right where I need to be right now"

I find it spiritual because I go into my head a lot out there.....Mother Nature takes her course with me, the city is like a strange garden of poisonous fruit and fruit full of vitamins. I learn about my tolerance for things, and I have time to see things in a different light.
This year I wasnt horny, and I didnt want to eat much drugs.....
There was too many things going on in my mind that were preoccupying me. The great yin yang that BM is is what turns me on....theres dark, theres light. Theres enrichment, theres hollowness.....theres everything and thats what I get out of it. (I go to plenty of Music festivals the rest of the year where I get my "everythign is beautiful and wonderful" tight knit perfection of pure bliss and comfort)
It can be viewed in so many ways, and none of them I feel are necc. wrong. I sometimes start to feel a little overzealous about the whole thing, but I have to stay back, I dont want BM to overtake my life year long. But others do, and so be it....we all have our own jive with the event. As long as your obeying the principles everyones allowed to do what they want with it. I see it range from people taking it so seroiusly its their whole life spiritually, religiously, etc.....and then thers those who just want to rave it up in the desert. I guess Im in the middle......

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:20 pm

I like your post, and pretty much agree with everything you pointed out.
I find I don't like it when people look down their nose at me for being a 'burner'. BM has been an important part of my life for 8 years. For all it's faults and aggravations, there still is NOTHING else like it, and for me that's fantastic!
Anf you're absolutely right, there is good and bad out there. Sometimes the 'bad' is entirely my own baggage hitting me in the face. Sometimes the good is what other people so generously give of themselves. Its awesome, and humbling.
So yeah, see ya next year...

Samsa Bee wrote:I think were all right.
There are so many different ways to experience this thing....
I felt so many diff. ways about it all week long.
"what the fuck am I doing here?"
then
"this is right where I need to be right now"

I find it spiritual because I go into my head a lot out there.....Mother Nature takes her course with me, the city is like a strange garden of poisonous fruit and fruit full of vitamins. I learn about my tolerance for things, and I have time to see things in a different light.
This year I wasnt horny, and I didnt want to eat much drugs.....
There was too many things going on in my mind that were preoccupying me. The great yin yang that BM is is what turns me on....theres dark, theres light. Theres enrichment, theres hollowness.....theres everything and thats what I get out of it. (I go to plenty of Music festivals the rest of the year where I get my "everythign is beautiful and wonderful" tight knit perfection of pure bliss and comfort)
It can be viewed in so many ways, and none of them I feel are necc. wrong. I sometimes start to feel a little overzealous about the whole thing, but I have to stay back, I dont want BM to overtake my life year long. But others do, and so be it....we all have our own jive with the event. As long as your obeying the principles everyones allowed to do what they want with it. I see it range from people taking it so seroiusly its their whole life spiritually, religiously, etc.....and then thers those who just want to rave it up in the desert. I guess Im in the middle......

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:43 am

Well for me...only speaking for myself mind you.

Last yr. My first year at BM. After 40 yrs of climbing around this big blue marble, looking to find my niche, to no avail, thinking I was the only artistic freak in the world.
I went to burningman.

When I got there, my mind was blown!!!!!!!!!
I finally found my people.
yeah a bunch a fricken 25-70 yr old hippies
(default.. most are doctors/lawyers/stock traders etc....) no ones dressing in bell bottom pants with flowers in their hair...well some are, hehehe, but what the heck eh?
We burn 365 days here in The reno area! We have a very large burner community. No were not hanging out back, smoking dope etc...
We're designing the dreams we had as children!
We're taking something seemingly impossible to build and doing exactly that! Building it!
We're spending time with each other at our homes with BBQ's and quality time.
We're going to de-com parties to celebrate what a fine time we had out in the desert!
We help each other out with car issues, with home repair...anything another person needs we try and help.
Its Bigger then just the week in the desrt my friend.
and call us hippie freaks if you want...I'll even answer to it!

Friends are obsessed, Burning Man spirituality crap.

Friends are obsessed, Burning Man spirituality crap.

Re: Friends are obsessed, Burning Man spirituality crap.

right armb - down with the holier than thou toods!

Re: Friends are obsessed, Burning Man spirituality crap.

Thank you.

spirituality