el-wire for slow-learners?

Rusted Iron · Post by **Rusted Iron** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:11 pm

Can anyone suggest a source to learn a hell of a lot more about el-wire within the next two months?

The Rat needs more light.

thx

bigbluedoggy · Post by **bigbluedoggy** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:12 am

I've been getting the stuff from these guys http://www.coolneon.com/funhouse.html
Not intending that as a commercial plug, but they have a lot of info on "how to" on their site and send instructions for soldering with the stuff as well. It's a Burner run company I do believe. Nice folks.

hollywallydoodle · Post by **hollywallydoodle** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:21 pm

thanks! looks like cool neon is sold at al lasher's electonrics in berkeley and at costumes on haight in sf.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:38 pm

http://glowire.com/plugplay.htm
this place sells some ready-to-go units, if you are not ready to fire up the soldering iron. I got mine here in 2006, and it is still glowing strong, despite the mud, the blood and the beer.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:51 pm

Soldering the stuff is pretty darned easy. I'm a total klutz and managed to get pretty good at it (although I did manage to reach out and pick up the soldering iron without looking - by the tip. You know you're in trouble when you can smell the burn before you can feel it

)

I use Goop to glue it down. If I'm putting it on fabric sometimes I tack it down first with an old Ronco Buttoneer - it puts a little plastic hasp into fabric. Some of the online sites sell buttoneers so I doubt I'm the only one who does that.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:00 pm

I've had success with crimp type connectors although soldering is best.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:50 pm

I didn't even know there were crimp type connectors!

If you're just getting one or two pieces and know what size you need, get them with the connectors already attached. If you're doing something bigger or more elaborate, spend the extra few bucks on copper foil tape and a stripping tool. Soldering is really not that difficult - just follow the instructions on you get from coolneon and be prepared to try a few times at first. There's a really good instruction video somewhere on Youtube as well.

One nice thing about EL wire is you can wire it up pretty much however you like. As long as the total length is within the range of the controller, you can do any size, different colors, series/parallel, etc. And you only have to wire up one end.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:12 am

I'm talking about just your garden variety electrical connector. One is like a sleeve that you put the wire in each end and crimp and the other looks like a wire nut but you crimp it instead of twisting. I may have actually manually twisted the wires together and then taped the hell out of it to make the actual connection to the el wire. It has worked flawlessly for 3 years while subjected to vibration mounted on my bike.
Take care to always keep the positive and negative conductors well insulated from each other. I think the actual connection to the el wire is the most difficult to make.

Rusted Iron · Post by **Rusted Iron** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:07 pm

Thanks, all.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:43 pm

What's the copper foil for?

There are also screw on twistloks with a spade or terminal connection at the end.
The better spring loaded twist locks do well with vibration, especially if coated with silicone grease dielectric.

Soldering is easy and you can get butane irons too.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:37 pm

No, not really.

El wire has a solid metal core coated with some special stuff. I think it's the special stuff that actually lights up. Along the outside of the special stuff are 2 teeny tiny hairlike wires. On the outside of that is a colored plastic coating - which makes it, well, colored. To make it light up, you have to wire the teeny tiny wires to one side of a driver, and the central core to the other. I've spent a fair bit of time soldering EL wire, and I can't imagine how you'd use twisty wire nuts or any other type of connector to attach to the teeny little wires without soldering. If you get pre-soldered EL wire, it may have regular wire "tails" attached to the core and to the teeny wires, then you can use anything you want that will hold that gauge of wire to whatever you need to attach to. But somebody's gotta do some soldering.

One tricky bit of soldering EL wire is managing the teeny little wires. That's where the copper tape comes in. You can get copper tape from EL wire suppliers, I also found some in an art supply place in town, they use it for making stained glass, I think.

Here, I'll walk you through it.

Using a wire stripper, carefully, CAREFULLY! strip off the outer plastic casing. Don't f** up the teeny little wires! Damn it, you broke the teeny wires, start again. Ok, this time, there they are, you might need a magnifying glass to see them. Fold 'em back against the unstripped plastic casing and tape 'em down with a wee bit of the copper tape wrapped around the outer casing. That holds the teeny wires in place, protects them, and makes them easier to solder to since now you can just just solder to the copper tape. You can also solder them to the outside of the copper tape, which is what I used to do, but why bother?

Ok, that's one side. Now take the remaining core coated with special stuff - double check to make sure you got the teeny wires taped out of the way, did I say they're small? They can evade you. Scrape the special stuff off of the central core until it's shiny copper. Don't cut the teeny wires!

You can see where this is going, yeah? You can attach it to a lead wire that you'll then attach to your driver, or direct to your driver. Take one side of whatever you're wiring to and solder it to the copper tape, take the other side and solder it to the central core. Go look at the instructions on coolneon or elsewhere before you do, this is the outline version. You want to use lots of shrink tubing to make sure your sides are isolated from each other and to protect the connection from the elements. Coolneon will step you through the details.

(btw, the driver is converts DC (batteries) to AC, so it doesn't matter which side you wire to which)

Any web site that sells EL will have drivers with specs of how much wire that driver will handle. Match 'em up, go nuts, have fun!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:21 pm

Can you use regular wire strippers on this or do you need the the antique kind with notches?
Or is a knife better?
So the foil acts as a buss bar?
Doesn't it need to be soldered rather than taped over?

It is true I don't know of any twistlocks that work past 32 gauge though I have seen them used.
I prefer solder.
If I can find it, I can solder angel hair.

It seems like stress relief would be mandatory?

Is it easier with the bigger diameter?
I saw elwire stretched 60 feet through the air with no support.
That seems pretty tough.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:55 pm

regarding wire strippers, I use regular wire strippers carefully on fine and normal thickness EL. Most times it works. Some EL websites have special strippers you can get. Nothing's perfect. I think I've used a knife, but it's really easy to break the fine wires.

Buss bar? Yeah, I guess - I'm no electrician, but I think so - it adheres to the outer shell of the EL wire and the fine wires, and provides conductivity through to the fine wires.

The tape works fine just as adhesive without a solder connection. To solder it, which I've also done, you'd want to put the tape down then solder the fine wires to the outside of it.

You could theoretically solder the fine wires directly to your external lead, but damn. If you can really solder angel hair, you MIGHT stand a chance. Besides the difficulty in doing so, I imagine it would break in no time.

When you tape it or solder it to the tape, it's pretty darned solid.

I don't think it's much easier with bigger diameters. I've used fine and normal (2.3 mm?) and I think I've used some of the next size up. But the fine wires are the same size, it may be a skosh easier getting the core to hold still, getting the stripping right, etc, but any gain is not worth choosing the larger size for - choose the best size for your project and go with it.

It is pretty tough stuff, and pretty light (and makes pretty lights!) (sorry, couldn't help myself on that one). You can make really solid connections on it.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:12 pm

I read about a guy doing costume and bike lighting using elwire and he had many breakage issues.
Is it possible the problem was connections and not elwire itself?
He went to LEDs with fiber optics.
He said his color options were better too.
Any thoughts?
LEDs keep advancing for sure.

For anyone using heatshrink, I can recommend irradiated PVC.
It only comes in black, but is very tough and attractive.
Teflon may be better.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:57 pm

Breakage issue is probably teh wire itself. It doesn't really stand high flex, I think the coating cracks. I've had some pieces I've fooled around with break, they get dead zones rather than fail outright so I think it's probably the coating. If you take that into account in your design you can work around it - I've never had a piece fail on a costume but I don't put any on joints and always try to treat it gently on flat spaces. I've got some costumes with quite a few hours use on them.

Possibly the connections - but it doesn't have to be, the connections can be made rock solid. Sometimes the drivers can get flaky.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:18 am

What do you think about the fiber optic idea?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:00 am

gyre wrote:What do you think about the fiber optic idea?

Poking the holes in your body to thread the fiber is the really uncomfortable part.

I've played around with foptics in a few projects. Check flea markets for those cheesy foptic Christmas trees, since they'll yield LOTS of fiber and are usually extra cheap once the light base burns out or goes missing. Because of the directionality of the light from most LEDs they make an excellent source for foptic projects. An inexpensive LED flashlight can be made into a foptic source simply by crafting a cap that fits tightly over the bright end of the light and has a hole for the fiber bundle or strands to emerge from. I use GOOP to consolidate all the loose bits, and pack little bits of foil inside anywhere I can to increase the reflectivity and give every little bit more light. There are also ornaments that have short clusters of fibers that can be glued right onto diodes for cool effects. Also try sitting in the dark with your favorite flashlight and some old percolator tops, lucite trinkets and glass baubles and shining the light through them.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:06 am

I have a 40 foot section of EL wire and the last 10 feet or so is dead.

Can I just cut this dead section off ?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:37 am

oneeyeddick wrote:I have a 40 foot section of EL wire and the last 10 feet or so is dead.

Can I just cut this dead section off ?

Yes. Most likely the tiny wires inside broke. This could happen if it's bent back and forth too many times, or if the plastic covering around the wire was cut or shaved back enough for them to be ripped out.

You could probably rescue the last 10 feet by wiring up a new connector.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:30 am

Copper foil is for removing excess solder. I think those butane soldering irons are fantastic. No electrical cord, and the heat is fairly adjustable. Just fill the little tank up with yer butane refiller. Great for the playa. I found one at RS, and it is still going strong after 4-5 years (solder three-four times a year, including on my telescope circuit board, various electric guitar projects, electronics!)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:35 am

Are you maybe thinking of that woven wick material for removing solder?
I'm not sure how you would use foil for removing solder?
I've soldered lots of it doing glass work though.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:29 pm

re: fiber optics - I just don't know. re: dead section of EL - Dork is right, the part that failed is probably just not getting juice so if you just cut it off and wire it up you can probably use it for something else. You might try wiring from the far end - just in case it's broken in more than one place. ChiefDanFox - we may be speaking of 2 different things, that's not how I use the copper tape in wiring EL.

el-wire for slow-learners?

el-wire for slow-learners?

Uh, no