Screw the Banks and Investment Firms

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:49 pm

Well I agree with Barney Frank on this one. There should be a moratorium on all bonuses. I think we need a bit more 'government intervention' here considering they have bailed them all out--since when does anyone that fucks up that badly get awarded with a fucking bonus!!!!!

Obscene is exactly the right word for this.

JK

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:02 am

i like how NBC is already pushing the "lets kill a stockbroker" meme....

next New Law & Order.....stories RIPPED from the headlines....

stay tuned, you know they'll be a wave of copycats...

me personally, if i meet any investment bankers at parties, i give them rufatinol (roofies) and then escort them in the back of my car over to "Ram Night" at the local leather/gay bar.

i get 50$ for each one i bring over and leave out back....

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:26 am

I think that too much may be made of the bonuses.
When the horses escape from the corral, of course the gate must be shut securely. Then of course, round up the horses. Lastly, whipping those responsible, but only for cheap entertainment.

The problem is that our civilization has been investing in more and more insubstantial forms of wealth - gold for livestock, cash for gold, credit for cash, unsecured credit for secured credit...
We'll be back to bartering before long, and that's not entirely a bad thing.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:44 pm

the other shoe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 58699.html

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:40 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i like how NBC is already pushing the "lets kill a stockbroker" meme....

some of them are talking the same shit as two weeks ago when we had the largest rally gain ever. "Oh this proves, that people have confidence in the market and we have reached the bottom. Its time to look for oversold stocks and the great discounted deals."

No company is resilient to recession except the heath and pharmaceuticals or the military industrials during a war.

I wish I had taped the nazdaq bubble burst of 4 years ago. It like they are reading the transcripts, but look at the why the naz dropped and the way the rebounds formed. I don't trust stockbroker outlooks. Never did never will.

AIIZ

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:05 pm

Simon, the $516 trillion is a conservative number. Since many of the instruments were bank to bank, there aren't any outside records. The number that I've seen floating around is $1.2 to $1.4 quadrillion. The world GDP is $50 trillion. Once the dust settles, it won't much matter if it was $1/2 quadrillion or $1.5 quadrillion.
The US General Accounting Office says that a global financial collapse is unavoidable. If we must have a collapse, I hope that it takes down the architects.
There may be enough collective outrage and death to force GOV to produce an alternative to banks. I'm not holding my breath.
Eastern Europe is collapsing fast. The IMF can't even begin to bail out all the applicants. The IMF is considering printing it's own money. 60 countries can no longer get "Letters of Credit" . Essentially they can't import anything.

The US spent the last 60 years inventing labor-saving devices and trying, at the same time, to keep full employment. That didn't work so GOV hired everybody and paid them with borrowed money. We've absorbed 80% of the world's savings. The world is in the process of tearing up our credit card. The US has to payback $ 3.4 trillion next year or roll it over. GOV projects that it will have to borrow $ 1 trillion next year. The world just doesn't have a few extra trillion to loan us. GOV will collapse.
Nothing on the horizon is going to bring good paying jobs back to America.
Japan's property bubble burst 18 years ago. Commercial property in Tokyo is selling for 1 % of bubble price. Japan is still waiting for a turnaround. It's been 18 years.
I don't see a turnaround until the US has products to sell that are better and/or cheaper that products from other countries.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:42 am

Santa came early this year....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... =exclusive

Simon, the $516 trillion is a conservative number.

i know, thats what terrifies me....i hate being cassandra, it sucks....

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:56 am

jkisha wrote:Well I agree with Barney Frank on this one. There should be a moratorium on all bonuses. I think we need a bit more 'government intervention' here considering they have bailed them all out--since when does anyone that fucks up that badly get awarded with a fucking bonus!!!!!

Obscene is exactly the right word for this.

JK

Fuck that.
Give them a window ledge and a fucking PUSH.
Teach them how to FLY.
I wouldn't even give then a blindfold.
Let them see the ground rushing to GREET THEM

Then let all ot the member of the House and Senate committes have their turn.

Or we could shoot them in the public square like they do in China.
Send their families the bill for the BULLET.
Sell their organs for transplants.
At least they would FINALLY serve a purpose.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:39 am

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:52 am

You can't get rid of greed. It's a part of our natural survival system. Like everything it needs something to balance it. Our criminal justice system is supposed to be the counterbalance to greed.
In the old days, the Romans lined the Appian Way with crucified criminals and heads on pikes. This was to let everyone know that criminals would be punished. I don't believe that homo-sapiens has changed much since then. Yet, our punishment regimen has been civilized to the point where it doesn't seem to be a deterrent.
The US has the most freedom [nominally] and the highest prison population.

You all remember the case of Michael Fay being caned for spraying graffiti in Singapore. That case highlighted the difference in punishments and crime rates between different countries.
The fraud enforcement of both the SEC and the FBI were gutted about 2004. Rather than prosecuting bankers who were given the opportunity to exercise unrestrained greed, prosecute the people who provided this opportunity.
I imagine that the bankers would learn a little caution if someone like Rockefeller or Greenspan were to face the firing squad. Throw in a couple senators from the senate banking committee for good measure.

Dig out the supporters for the Graham-Leachey act while you're at it. Make a list of everyone who supported deregulation over the years. Our power grid is trashed because of deregulation. The S&L mess was because of playing with regulations.
Same with much of our current stock market problems.
Who was pulling the strings behind all this. The Illuminati /Binldebergers seem to think that they have all the answers. Maybe they are the source. Dunno

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:57 am

can't sit still wrote:Rather than prosecuting bankers who were given the opportunity to exercise unrestrained greed, prosecute the people who provided this opportunity.
I imagine that the bankers would learn a little caution if someone like Rockefeller or Greenspan were to face the firing squad. Throw in a couple senators from the senate banking committee for good measure.

Dig out the supporters for the Graham-Leachey act while you're at it. Make a list of everyone who supported deregulation over the years.

i would be happy if we could just stop them from getting re-elected.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:00 am

can't sit still wrote:You can't get rid of greed.

Greed is the most essential factor of the capitalistic system!

Without it and there is no desire to out do your neighbors.

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:09 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
can't sit still wrote:You can't get rid of greed.
Greed is the most essential factor of the capitalistic system!

Without it and there is no desire to out do your neighbors.

You left out stupidity; which more than greed was what lead to this. Even sophisticated investors didn't really understand these new instruments fully--all smoke and mirrors.

I think all of those new 'instruments' should be made illegal. It is nothing more than legalized gambling.

JK

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:08 am

"The Illuminati /Bildeburgers"

dont like it when you misspell their name.

i am a member of the Illuminaughty.

we spank the world

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:20 am

jkisha wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
can't sit still wrote:You can't get rid of greed.
Greed is the most essential factor of the capitalistic system!

Without it and there is no desire to out do your neighbors.
You left out stupidity; which more than greed was what lead to this. Even sophisticated investors didn't really understand these new instruments fully--all smoke and mirrors.

I think all of those new 'instruments' should be made illegal. It is nothing more than legalized gambling.

JK

my take, JK, is it's "stupid like a fox"...............

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:38 am

ygmir wrote: my take, JK, is it's "stupid like a fox"...............

If you are referring to those that 'invented' and 'profited' from these new instruments--there was no stupidity at all, it was shear genious. How could this have been legal is what I want to know; and why aren't these people being prosecuted.

JK

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:14 am

Illuminaughty,,,,, Damn, why does someone else get the best lines.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:08 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote: my take, JK, is it's "stupid like a fox"...............
If you are referring to those that 'invented' and 'profited' from these new instruments--there was no stupidity at all, it was shear genious. How could this have been legal is what I want to know; and why aren't these people being prosecuted.

JK

you speak my language, white devil..............

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:58 pm

jkisha wrote: If you are referring to those that 'invented' and 'profited' from these new instruments--there was no stupidity at all, it was shear genious. How could this have been legal is what I want to know; and why aren't these people being prosecuted.

JK

it doesn't surprise me. i worked on a tax program, and it never ceased to amaze me how creative some of our customers were ... you start reading the law to figure out how something would work, and find that there are several interpretations... so people try this and that ... if it was egregious it might get audited, or even go to court. but the fact is that it is simply impossible to cover everything.... our laws are too complicated ... and not just taxwise, either.

if there is a way around some law, some clever person will find it. remember who writes the laws and regulations ... many of the politicians are lawyers, and know how to write in sneaky little tidbits to help their donors and constituents ... although even they may not understand all of the ramifications. regulations are of course necessary, but they can be abusive as well.

i really don't see a solution here. we get screwed by these guys or by those guys... which is why cynicism makes so much more sense than hope ... IMHO ...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:22 pm

you want cynicism?

here you go...Have a heapin' helpin' of my state of mind.

monday, the gates of hell break loose, and the barbarians storm the gates.

metaphorically speaking, of course.

but if you're in the financial district in nyc, wear a hardhat, there might be falling stockbrokers and hedge fund managers.

make sure you laugh when you hear them go "thud".

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:56 pm

why monday? why not thursday? or two weeks from now?

i wish you doomsday guys would get your story together ... i look terrible in a hard hat and flak vest.

betrdanevr · Post by **betrdanevr** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:43 pm

littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote: If you are referring to those that 'invented' and 'profited' from these new instruments--there was no stupidity at all, it was shear genious. How could this have been legal is what I want to know; and why aren't these people being prosecuted.

JK
it doesn't surprise me. i worked on a tax program, and it never ceased to amaze me how creative some of our customers were

Creativity of the customers? Seriously?
Did you work for a CPA firm?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:50 pm

littleflower wrote:why monday? why not thursday? or two weeks from now?

i wish you doomsday guys would get your story together ... i look terrible in a hard hat and flak vest.

If that's all you're wearing, it might be pretty dang hot..........grin........

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:58 am

betrdanevr wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote: If you are referring to those that 'invented' and 'profited' from these new instruments--there was no stupidity at all, it was shear genious. How could this have been legal is what I want to know; and why aren't these people being prosecuted.

JK
it doesn't surprise me. i worked on a tax program, and it never ceased to amaze me how creative some of our customers were

Creativity of the customers? Seriously?
Did you work for a CPA firm?

our clients were CPA firms. i was referring to creative accounting, as we called it.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:03 am

because.

there, thats all the reason you get....just because.

and as far as predictions go, i'm batting 1000%.

you may check my previous posts to confirm dates etc...

like i said, the problem with being cassandra is A. nobody wants to believe you, and B. when it does happen, they blame you for knowing...

so, it doesnt really matter does it....now go ahead, keep your heads down and keep eating the nice tasty grass, for thats all the sheep can do anyways...

the Sheepdogs and the Wolves will fight it out as always.

better hope the shaggy ones win the day, n'est-ce pas Moutons?

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:21 am

i think there are a few boys around here crying "wolf" too, trying to fool the sheepdogs into chasing them god-knows-where...

and some of those sheep are well armed ... and dangerous...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:47 am

i have no desire or reason to post what i post other than to inform a small group of people what i believe to be true.

i trust my sources. Do You?

it makes not one iota of difference other than a electronic paper trail that can be followed and looked at in the future when it is a moot point anyway.

it is truly an exercise in futility that i nonetheless feel compelled to do.

take it for what you want, i dont care, and in the long run, vindication will not be a happy reward, only confirmed grief.

i dont say this shit lightly, and the e-playa denizens who know me also know that when i am sincere, as i am in this moment, i can be frighteningly astute.

a little nugget of truth wrapped up in a whole heap of shit.

sorry you had to use a shovel people, but thats the only way i know how to get some to start digging.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:58 am

yes, simon, i do trust my sources... some of them, anyhow. there are also a lot that i do not trust, but keep an eye on ... i am always open to new ideas, new ways to look at things...

but that's the problem, isn't it? there are too many people out there saying too many things. anybody can pick one line of thinking and find plenty of sources to convince himself that he is correct ...

i have always thought you were sincere, and i love your posts ... but war with china seems way too unlikely. we need them too much ... they need us too much. if there is an early crisis for obama i think it is far more likely to be what everyone already knows ... that israel will go after iran's nukes... i worry far more about russia than china right now.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:06 pm

we will come to blows, via others in Africa first..

remember, war is generally about securing resources, and/or property/land.

the chinese must extend their sphere of influence in order to survive and grow.

Africa is a Logical place to make inroads, as the Monroe Doctrine dictates that S. America is verboten and that except for a small incursion of the Japanese into peru, and the leftover Nazis into Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia et al. has been holding for centuries.

Evo Morales and Mr. Chavez have been inviting unwelcome guests into our hemisphere as of late, and this will also lead to a further chilling of us-soviet, oops, my bad, RUSSIAN relations.

Darfur may be the trigger in Africa, maybe not. The Former Belgian Congo is up for grabs now as well, not to mention Somalia.

so, there you have it, it's an educated guess, i cannot see tomorrow, only predict based on info.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:37 pm

Simon, I can walk into a room,,, fart and clear the room. I can clear it even faster by talking about where the economy is going. Pollyanna land has absolutely no stomach for bad news. "War of the Roses" was the last "black comedy" that was a hit in the US. We refuse to watch anything with an unhappy ending.
The economy is still staggering along. The real problem is that GOV is completely insolvent. GOV now says that they need to borrow $2 T next year. They also need to roll-over or repay $3.7 T.
The assistant treasury secretary is currently in the Arab states with his hand out. Our bondholders lose 15% a year. The SWFs that already invested billions in banks watched it turn to smoke. Why invest [throw away] more??
The stock market will stagger,,,, GOV will collapse.