The Long Cold Winter

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:01 pm

Sail Man wrote:Looking at prices of metals etc online, silver seems to be the metal that I can afford in any appreciable amount. I find a plethora of online precious metal/coin dealers, as well as the usual brick and mortar stores in my area.

Can I go wrong by buying silver over the net? I am looking at the modern coins, not older collector coins (unless that is the best coin to purchase)

I am leaning towards the .999 boullion, or mint sets, or proof. Opinions.

Does anybody here purchase online and if so where?

I am not looking to buy a huge quantity, but I think it is prudent to start buying a little bit each month.

Any other suggestions?
my vote, and money, have gone to old 90% silver coins......
as described by CSS.

another advantage, IMHO, is no need to assay them........it's obvious what they are, and, not very likely to be counterfeited...

bullion or "slugs" can be alloyed or whatever, and, the prudent buyer will want proof is it's purity......at a price, usually........and, in times of low tech, maybe not even possible........

gold is easily provable.....simple acid, specific gravity, or hardness tests, or combination thereof......

collectable coins, IMHO, are a waste.........very much a "vanity investment"...........if you're looking for a hedge in hard times.....simple proof and value, to me, are paramount..........
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Post by can't sit still » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:05 am

This is very interesting. Argentina has lots of experience with currency collapse. There are several vids from Salbuchi on what we here in the US can expect in the future as our currency is devalued.

Salbuchi predicted that the US would go to a two-tiered currency.
Patterson also predicted a domestic / foreign currency.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_0 ... 01003.html One currency for domestic use and another for foreign investors. Cuba currently has 2 currencies like this.
The US is now introducing a currency that Patterson predicted. If his predictions continue to be accurate, the greenback dollar will be severely devalued.
Dan
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:31 am

Precious metals are always a good bet, particularly if you don't have to pay for them.

It is the barbarian way.

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Post by Deb Prothero » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:08 pm

Where have the barbarians hidden the precious metals?

You guys are scaring the wits out of me. I'm reading this every day and it gets darker and darker.

Any room on your mother's farm Sail Man? I'll bring seeds. :(

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:15 pm

Deb, not to worry. The sun will still rise. The rain will still fall. Just stay the hell away from people. :lol:
It's going to be a wild ride. Korelin is calling for an end to capitalism. http://www.thedailybell.com/558/Al-Kore ... ilver.html

FOFOA [who is brilliant] is calling for an end of socialism; http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/10/fair-value-gold.html
Another good read; http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/10/gold-is-money.html
The industrial economy is the only thing that allows us to feed such a large population.
Credit is the lifeblood of the industrial economy.
The credit has been withdrawn because our industry is no longer competitive.
It started with heavy manufacturing in the rust belt and now includes other sectors of industry. This fits in fine with the mantra of Obama's new science advisor. He says that the US needs to de-industrialize. Not a pretty picture.
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:52 am

Deb Prothero wrote:Where have the barbarians hidden the precious metals?

You guys are scaring the wits out of me. I'm reading this every day and it gets darker and darker.

Any room on your mother's farm Sail Man? I'll bring seeds. :(
Here, Deb, this may help.
•I see myself as wealthy and that's who I AM.
•I enjoy my prosperity and share it freely with the world.
•My income is growing higher and higher NOW.
•I AM passionate about building wealth.
•All resistance to prosperity has dissolved in total grace.
•I CHOOSE determination and persistence over quitting every time.
•I deserve to have financial abundance in my life NOW.
•Abundance and I are one.
•I BELIEVE anyone can be wealthy -- and that includes me.
•I AM NOW accumulating large sums of money.
•My mind is a powerful magnet for profitable ideas.
•Great wealth is flowing to me NOW.
•I AM successful because I know what I want and I ask for it.
•I create wealth easily and effortlessly.
•I dissolve all false messages around creating wealth.
•I define success my way and I create it.
You may now today's grab-assing for what it really is.

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Post by Sail Man » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:48 pm

Deb Prothero wrote:Where have the barbarians hidden the precious metals?

You guys are scaring the wits out of me. I'm reading this every day and it gets darker and darker.

Any room on your mother's farm Sail Man? I'll bring seeds. :(
Its 100 acres, southeast of Traverse City about 1/2 hr. Most of 80 acres on 1 side of the road is farmable, and the 20 on the other side is slpit between woods and open farmable land.

I have land there available to me at any time to build a cabin. My plans may know include a good basement :wink:

We're going up there Friday to camp nearby. Start scoping out the local deer action for hunting season.

Come on up, plenty of room for the Lofers contingent.
Excuse me Ma'am, your going to feel a small prick.
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:05 pm

Traverse City? No wonder you're depressed.

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Post by Sail Man » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:26 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Traverse City? No wonder you're depressed.
:lol: I know. There I was simply a troll. Down by Detroit, I'm a smog breathing troll.
Excuse me Ma'am, your going to feel a small prick.
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Post by can't sit still » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:11 pm

Well, in case you haven't noticed, the US and the West are moving towards a "global mean" wage. People in China and Pakistan and Bangladesh don't buy dune buggies and ski boats. The US bought these things with discretionary income. At a global level for wages, discretionary income will be hard to come by. Here's a chart of the US economy;
http://www.safehaven.com/article-14999.htm
It will be more than just difficult to pay off our existing debts at global wages also.

"This system of lending a purely symbolic monetary CONCEPT instead of lending real wealth requires the perceived value of that CONCEPT to remain relatively stable or else the entire banking system will collapse. It is to this end that bankers, governments, politicians and economists always try to entangle (think: forced quantum entanglement) gold into the money system and control its value in order to keep their CIRCULATING DEBT CONCEPT viable and valuable."
Gold is added to the mix to confuse us into believing there is some tangible value to currency.
"It was said, many years before Paulson, Bernanke and TARP, that the financial system will be saved at any cost! "
"On one side is their product, the conceptual unit of credit account, their currency. And on the other side is their offspring, the financial system, Wall Street. What saves one will kill the other. They can save the present value of their product and kill their offspring through starvation. Or they can save their offspring by delivering what it desperately needs to survive... a constant expansion of credit (aka monetary inflation). But this will, of course, kill the value of their product, the currency."
"They can save one or the other, but not both. And it was always known, but has now been proven, that the system will be saved at ANY cost."
"The bottom line is that the banking system will be "saved" at the expense of sacrificing the market value of every last credit instrument they have created."
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/10/gold- ... art-2.html
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Post by can't sit still » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:52 pm

Mish does very good work. He has come up with a good paper on unemployment;
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... rough.html
Each successive recovery after each recession has had a lower and lower recovery of employment. The last 2 recessions were followed by "jobless recoveries".
The system of containerized freight has thrust the US into the global labor market for manufactured goods. We're too high-priced for that market. Even some service jobs are being outsourced. Many of our financial services jobs have evaporated with the end of the Yen carry-trade. The US doesn't have enough of it's own capital to have a big financial industry. The employment boom on borrowed money has crashed.

So, what is our future employment going to look like?
Mish didn't factor in the continuing rise of automation. In regards to the domestic consumer economy, he didn't factor in the negative feedback from all the job losses or the continuing sinking wages. The pres has called for big cuts in medical care;
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jun20 ... -j16.shtml Not positive about the source. That will have an effect on jobs.
As employment goes down, the US has a diminished ability to pay it's debts. That affects the bond market.
The coming holiday season will bring some clarification as to what Wall Street can expect in profits. Also, the first quarter of next year is supposed to usher in a big collapse in commercial real estate.
The best investigators say that we currently have about 17.5 % unemployment with about 740,000 jobs lost every month. It's impossible to see any big "driver" of job creation on the horizon :cry:
Dan
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:49 pm

Nouriel Roubini is the much-lauded economist who predicted this mess and accurately predicted the housing crash numbers. Now, he says that unemployment will rise and linger for a long time. He also says; "There's really just one hope for our leaders to turn things around: a bold prescription that increases the fiscal stimulus with another round of labor-intensive, shovel-ready infrastructure projects, helps fiscally strapped state and local governments and provides a temporary tax credit to the private sector to hire more workers"
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/200 ... ob_lo.html

How can someone so prescient be so stupid? There is a certain amount of wealth in this country. Counting debt service, FED payments, oil imports, Misc imports, etc there is a net outflow of <1> trillion a year.
There will NEVER be a reduction of external debt until GOV cuts way back. Internal stimulus just wastes time and money while the net wealth bleeds away. No amount on internal job-creation will increase our total internal wealth.
The shitheads in DC seem to think that if they spend enough,,, the debt will go away.
GOV is following the Keynesian pretense that we can pull money out of the future and spend it today,,,, and , all will be well.
The US is too uncompetitive in too many areas to be able to generate the future cash to redeem today's [and yesterdays'] promises.
GOV refuses to shrink itself. It worked great in 1921. But, since the advent of Keynes, GOV refuses to do the logical, proven remedy.
Dan
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Post by Deb Prothero » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:22 am

I loved the Traverse City area, SailMan. I was up there in the last week of October to help our friend Plokk move. She needed to get nearer to her daughter in Traverse City so I moved her from Grand Rapids that week.

Wow, Traverse City has a beautiful waterfront area. Just loved it. That will be a great area for you to retreat to. And I would join you and your family there in a heartbeat. Well, as soon as you guys sort out the health care issue.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:17 am

Ain' t It Awful
Person overtly expresses distress, but it is covertly gratified at the prospect of the satisfaction they can wring from their misfortune.
Berne, Eric (1964). Games People Play

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ALL HAIL SATAN?....

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:46 am

Dell came in with over 50% loss in sales and they say it may not get any better. Maybe Windows 7 will save them, they are the worlds biggest comp manf. you know. With Christmas already here, what will the new year bring?








Are We There Yet?....




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Post by can't sit still » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:37 pm

Are we there yet,,,?
Nope,,, not even close.
Visualize all the producing capacity in the world,,, automated or otherwise.
Visualize all the purchasing capacity in the world,,,, MINUS CREDIT
Visualize all the producing capacity in the world being reduced down to where it is commensurate with the purchasing power. Now, visualize all this production being distributed to the lowest-cost wage market.

Too many shithead economists believed that the US could get by on the FIRE economy. They all sang Hosannas at the Keynesian altar. They may have read hundreds of economics books, but, they evidently never read a history book. Only a moron could believe that this country would survive without heavy industry or manufacturing. Too much time spent in their cloisters and not enough spent in the street. They should ALL be in the street now.
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Post by can't sit still » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:38 pm

A few quotes;
US government alone will need to finance $4.5 trillion worth of bonds next year
At the end of October 36 % of the public debt was due within a year.
the government will have to cough up $1.6 trillion just by the end of March.
Considering the hand he was dealt, Bernanke has worked miracles. We're borrowing a lot more but paying less total interest.
GOV has made it much harder to invest in foreign countries. It has also made it harder to stash money in foreign banks. The P/E ratio is crap. This has forced many investors to buy US bonds. THAT is the only thing keeping the US solvent.
The big "moneybags" in the picture is the FED. They are going to leave the picture next quarter.
The defaults are climbing so fast that it is likely that Mac and Mae will explode when the FED quits buying their paper. The debt rollover has to come to a stop sometime. There just isn't enough money in the world. If we print the money, nobody will buy bonds until the interest rate is raised way up. If the interest rate goes up, the economy will stall/stop.
It will be interesting to see what Bernanke does IF he gets re-appointed;
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/11/ ... onclusion/
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Post by can't sit still » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:31 am

One of the recurring "themes" on the financial blogosphere is that the US itself is collateral for our un-payable loans. The actual public lands are subject to seizure for debts.
"This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government."
http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/f ... a-us-debts

"This brings us to the issue of collateral. We've borrowed so much money the lenders are getting nervous. Back during the Johnson administration Charles DeGaulle demanded the United States collateralize the loans owed to France in gold and started carting out the bullion from the treasury. This caused several other nations to demand the same and President Nixon had to slam the gold window closed or the treasury would have been emptied, since the United States was even then in debt for more money than the treasury could cover in gold.

But Nixon had to collateralize that debt somehow, and he hit upon the plan of quietly setting aside huge tracts of American land with their mineral rights in reserve to cover the outstanding debts. But since the American people were already angered over the war in Vietnam, Nixon couldn't very well admit that he was apportioning off chunks of the United States to the holders of foreign debt. So, Nixon invented the Environmental Protection Agency and passed draconian environmental laws which served to grab land with vast natural resources away from the owners and lock it away, and even more, prove to the holders of the foreign debt that US citizens were not drilling. mining, or otherwise developing those resources. From that day to this, as the government sinks deeper into debt, the government grabs more and more land, declares it a wilderness or "roadless area" or "heritage river" or "wetlands" or any one of over a dozen other such obfuscated labels, but in the end the result is the same. We The People may not use the land, in many cases are not even allowed to enter the land. "

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... oodoo.html

It's hard to say if there is any truth to these allegations. It is true that the US is not developing it's domestic oil [Bakken, Gull Island,, Ca. coast] Many of our mineral resources are undeveloped,,,, supposedly because foreign prices are too much lower than our production costs.
Our debt is clearly unpayable. Just what are we going to do???? sell the place?

"Rothschild personally conducted the monetary matters and the creation of this WORLD CONSERVATION BANK. This bank would refinance by swapping debt for assets. A country with a huge national debt would receive money to pay off the debt by swapping the debt for wilderness lands"
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-197641

" When James Baker made his keynote speech in 1987, he stated that, "No longer will the World Bank carry this debt unsecured. The only assets we have to collateralize are federal lands and national parks." Baker's definition of federal lands includes Heritage sites, of which there are about 20 in the United States. I say "about" 20, because they are being added on a regular basis. As I write this article, Congress is about to vote on a proposed Rim of the Valley National Park that would include over 500,000 acres of National Forest land and 170,000 parcels of private property including many farms and ranches. At the same time there is a bill before Congress called the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act that would increase the acreage of designated wilderness by 50% in the lower 48 states"

This is an article from Oregon Senator Doug Whitsett that is chillingly accurate;
http://www.klamathbucketbrigade.org/Whi ... 041709.htm
"Wayne Hage postulated in his 1989 book Storm Over Rangelands that our creditors expect collateral in the form of an implicit mortgage on the land owned by the United States government. Mr. Hage suggested that the near exponential growth in lands being set aside for environmental preservation had more to do with providing collateral for our lenders than with preserving the environment for our posterity."

"Those nations and banking entities that have loaned the United States trillions of dollars consider these gigantic reserves the collateral that secures their loans. They want these resources, their collateral, preserved until the loans are repaid. The direct result is that our government continues to exclude more and more of our vast natural resource wealth from development in direct proportion to the growth of our national debt."

"The Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge that holds billions of barrels of easily recoverable oil and huge quantities of natural gas is banned from development. The Staircase Escalante National Monument that holds one of the world’s largest coal deposits is excluded from mining. The Green River Basin that holds more oil in its oil shale deposits than mankind has ever used is banned by presidential order from exploration and development. The vast Bakken formation in Montana and the Dakotas also holds more known recoverable oil resources than man kind has ever used and is also off limits. United States companies are forbidden from exploring and developing known oil and gas resources on our outer continental shelf"

"The rate of acquisition of private lands by the federal government has also increased dramatically in recent years. The most usual method is for non-government conservation organizations to purchase the “last great placesâ€
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Make Mine A Double.....

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:28 pm

Well Dubai is about to default on $6 billion in commercial paper, the dollar is at an all time low, it's offical they have stopped buying our currency, and we are told to get set for a serious dip in the stock market, and the commercial real estate is set to dump the first of the year...



oh woe is me...



are we there yet?




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Post by can't sit still » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:13 am

One thing that the Dollar has going for it is that,,,, there are so many of them. The FOREX actually likes the dollar. Small currencies can blow in a matter of days. The ubiquitous dollar is so widespread that it can't really make any sudden moves and take investors by surprise. The only thing that brought any stability to Zimbabwe was a change TO the dollar.
The World knows that when the dollar blows, there is going to be revolution. US agriculture will be in trouble. When agriculture has trouble, revolution follows.
China has 20% of the world's people and only 6% of the world's water. They're very short on arable land. They would be happy to see an unwinding of the Western Hegemony BUT, they don't want to see any kind of collapse that will destabilize them AND the middle east.

Imagine what would happen to oil exports from Saudi, Iran, Kuwait, etc if there was a sudden shortage of food. The hatred of the West is offset by a FEAR of the shrinking of world food supplies. China has had big crop failures and has had to pay huge amounts to farmers to keep them solvent.
As the weather gets even more wild, there will be even more crop failures. Add to this the loss if integrity in the genetic structure of GM crops. India has had spectacular crop failures due to the failure of Monsanto seeds.


NO, we aren't there yet. :D
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Tough Love?.....

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:27 pm

US shares slide over Dubai fears http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8382103.stm


and it's more like $80 bil

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Post by can't sit still » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:44 pm

Rabbi, I might run out to the desert tomorrow. I don't see pm or E-mail on your profile. Can you PM me a phone number?
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Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:50 pm

I just pm'ed you my number. I am in LA until Tue, got Unemployment interviews, and court on Tue (traffic)...




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Post by can't sit still » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:55 pm

The blowout in Dubai is just a default in commercial real estate. No big deal. It happens all the time in las Vegas,,,, Bank owned casinos going bust.
It looks like UAE is going to cover the losses to stabilize markets. Reportedly, under US pressure, UAE will only bail out companies that DON'T do business with Iran.
CITI says that there is NO problem with Dubai,,,,,, but, then again, CITI is in bed with Dubai.
"In November 2007, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the sovereign-wealth fund owned by the capital of the United Arab Emirates, injected $7.6 billion into Citigroup."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1229388 ... outset-box

The PTB can't allow any waves of distrust to ruffle the markets. It will all be sorted out before the markets open. "as long as the roots are not severed" :roll:
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Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:14 pm

stock up on tires?........
YGMIR

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:19 pm

No, not Dubai!

There was NO WARNING that they were blowing their money on pointless endeavors.

Image

That was an investment!

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:24 pm

drawing for next project:

Image
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:27 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:No, not Dubai!

There was NO WARNING that they were blowing their money on pointless endeavors.

That was an investment!
Build it and ,,, they will come!
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:00 pm

One of the big problems that we face is the fact that powerful special interest groups are all operating on runaway greed. The Illuminaughty seems to be operating with greed and power as a side issue. They evidently want total integration and control.
The power groups manipulate society and it's beliefs to their profit. I'm afraid that their narrow focus is going to invite unintended consequences,,,, blowback and collateral damage.
Big Pharma wants lots of disease so they can make lots of sales.
Big Bank wants a big crash to get rid of as much competition as possible and grab as many distressed assets as possible.
Military wants as much war as possible to sell as much munitions as possible.
Monsanto, et al is trying to get a hammerlock on Agriculture
De Beers is trying to produce artificial scarcity of diamonds
The oil producers think that this is a good plan for them.

In the classic corporate attitude, only the outcome matters,,, not the piles of bodies.

NWO is aiding and abetting,,, maybe orchestrating much of this attempted consolidation of power. Is anybody looking at the probable cumulative effect of all the separate groups?
The UN advocates moving all people into cities. Kunstler says that cities will be dead zones [The Long Emergency] He shows pretty good reasoning connected to peak oil.

I don't see any way that a lot of violent population reduction is going to make the world a more cohesive place. It's been well proved that a police state doesn't work,,, nor a command economy.
The power groups are thrashing around leaving a trail of bodies and crashed economies in their quest for money. The NWO seems to think that they can pick up the dis-membered fractals and create a cohesive society.

First-off, letting Big Pharma and Big Ag do artificial genetic selection is not going to work out as they hope.
Allowing proliferation of nukes and DU isn't going to work out so well for the planet. Maybe they have another planet in mind for this brave new world.
The NWO plan isn't well thought out. Artificial selection won't get the results that they want. Maybe they're trying to get eloi and morlochs;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlock
They're going to shove us through the meat grinder and it is NOT going to come out as foie gras 8)
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Post by Sail Man » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:05 am

And it just seems to keep getting worse....


http://www.eutimes.net/2009/11/obama-or ... civil-war/


The prepping continues. During my recent hunting trip up north I introduced my 7 yr old boy to my Ruger 10/22 which he loved shooting even though it was a bit big for him. Thankfully he didnt take out the pole barn :D We will continue on aim and placement. Thinking I may have to get him a more apt sized .22 for him.

I also had my Mom turn me onto how to can. Very simple.
Excuse me Ma'am, your going to feel a small prick.
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