Politics and Burning Man don't mix

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:15 pm

I don't get where Ancient sees most of the political posts as "hate speech"??
My perception is that for the most part, though disturbing to some degree, they are intelligent, provative and infomative....anything wrong with that?
I guess if you want BM to be Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, that's fine by me

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:30 pm

he should try free republic, where saying something radical like public schools are worth saving gets you called a pinko commie liberal faggot terrorist.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:43 pm

stuart wrote:he should try free republic, where saying something radical like public schools are worth saving gets you called a pinko commie liberal faggot terrorist.

Please note, I support saving/fixing public schools... more specifically, I would like little "Billie or Susie" to understand the basics of language and grammar, simple addition/subtraction/multiplication/division, and that we (human beings) ought to learn to "work and play well with others."

Then, and only then... do I give a tinker's damn about how little "Billie or Susie" FEEL... I want them to learn how to THINK.

sure, it sounds very cranky... but now I understand why all those gray haired people have wrinkle lines.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:46 pm

Please note, I support saving/fixing public schools

you are a pinko commie liberal faggot terrorist

<oooops, wrong board>

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:48 pm

You think Ancient gets it yet?

Burners have a better way to get along "Know matter what."

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:34 pm

cowboyangel wrote:I don't get where Ancient sees most of the political posts as "hate speech"??
My perception is that for the most part, though disturbing to some degree, they are intelligent, provative and infomative....anything wrong with that?
I guess if you want BM to be Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, that's fine by me

"hate speech" ckeck this site out its scary!

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/index.php?

I the argument about the movie troy!

Narcissism at its worst!

Watch out for Purple neon people at BM.

They want to rule BM!

A II Z

Oh shit is this post to social political too?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:45 pm

Mayfield! RTFO!

Ashcroft and the Bushies are history.

Yaaaayy!

ronski · Post by **ronski** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:19 pm

For the record, I agree with Ancient's sentiments about 1000%. I'll bet there's lots of others that do, too. Thanks, you are very brave.

Sadly, this thread has very quickly become an example of exactly what you were talking about, right?

Technopatra: you mention that there are "only" about 8 threads dealing with politics like this. The problem of course is not avoiding these, but with the other threads that get highjacked into political ranting and raving. I mean, someone can ask an innocuous question about lighting bluebird wings or something and it someone else will just HAVE to toss in BU$H = HITLER, right? And it goes steadily downhill after that.

And then we wonder about how "negativity abounds"?

Somewhere it was mused about how many people came to this board and were turned off by the rantings of WSPR, Allanons, BRR, etc. In my opinion a whole lot are going to be equally disgusted by the unrelenting propaganda wars. But hey, that's nothing special-- it's all over every aspect of the blogosphere. Why should this be any different.

Oh well. Let the flames continue. Throw some shit my direction too.

Ta

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:28 pm

Oh dear. I came in late to this thread and still all I can think is: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (followed by a superior sounding snicker).

Now that I've got that out of my system, a couple of points.

For a lot of us, Burning Man isn't a fun place we go to that's separated from the rest of our lives. It's just as "real" as everything else we do, and politics are as much a part of it as they are everything else. You may have noticed the thread about the proposal to build a coal-burning power plant in Gerlach. You better believe that's a political issue, one that will have a big impact on the event - a six-hundred foot smokestack might be a serious "buzzkill". Fact is, in this day and age, politics is quite literally in the very air we breathe.

Also and related, if you listen to the talk from the org the last few years, you'll know that they really want to push the idea that the "Burning Man philosophy", whatever that may be, isn't just something that belongs on the playa for one week out of fifty-two. It's something to take back and spread throughout the rest of the world, like a creeping virus...ahem. Anyway, since one of the main things (aside from pyromania) that makes Black Rock City unique is the way people interact there with each other and there environment, and since politics can pretty much be defined as how humans govern their interactions between each other and their environment, that (the BRC virus) can't help but get political, despite the LLC's steadfastly non-partisan stance.

Some of you might be amused by the fact that when Technopatra introduced me to fellow eplayan Ring o' Fire at the Flambe Lounge yesterday, he immediately said: "Oh, the political one..."

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:30 pm

BTW, I was writing this as Ronski replied and I missed his post. No derisive laughter was directed at him.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:34 pm

hey Ryonski....check out Zeus' post for the link to a sample of a really sick board. (thanks Zeus) I think Tecnopatra already dished out the definitive answer to all this....back up and check her out
also check out my link to a truly enlightened political discussion from Linguistics Professor, Dr. George Lakoff at
http://www.brightpathvideo.com

I believe our posts are high level for the most part...are you a republican?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:35 pm

Man........

I missed you guys last night.

Bummer.

Ya'll would'nt have liked me anyway.

Glad you guys got together though.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:35 pm

Oh,

and what Kelly said.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:47 pm

cowboyangel wrote: I believe our posts are high level for the most part...are you a republican?

Hey, there are tons of republicans on this board that at least hold their own weight. Joel has admitted to being one and he will be the first to tell you that I truly enjoy his company. Political affiliation has nothing to do with it really. Heated debates with burners are healthy. It may seem offensive but at least the level of intelligence is backed with cites. Always comes to a civil conclusion. This current American government as well as those that feel that the world is out to get them so lets bomb everyone can learn from eplaya as to how to settle their differences and have a good time doing it.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:49 pm

lighting bluebird wings

Don't light bluebird wings! That's CRUEL!!!

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon May 24, 2004 10:30 pm

I think a point to make is a reference to the Pedophile thread that's on this board. If people see BM as some nest of sexual violent offenders then Zelots like Ashcroft (imagine what its like be labeled as the guy who lost to a dead candidate- you'd be pissed at the world too) would do everything to stop BM.

I bet my "Gods" thread really pisses the religious right all to hell!

But I know several people that had post pro-bush messages three years ago that have stopped their propaganda because they now know that this administration is the beginning of the American Fascist plan to take over this country under the wave the flag we're right even when we're wrong.

I love this country and I love Burning Man even more and I won't let anyone stop it!

And I got the Ammo to prove it!

Let hear it everyone! Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA, Burning Man USA!

OK You can stop now!

A II Z

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 10:34 pm

Kelly,
I think AZ has already had a few.

Ancient · Post by **Ancient** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:04 pm

My thanks to you Ronski. I really appreciated your posting. This has become somewhat a thread like those I was talking about. But with more focus on such things I see that it was a handful of individuals who I was reacting to, who can be seen behaving in the ways that you mentioned. Thank you for your support ^_^.

And this link is maybe only 30% relevant, but it's funny. I haven't considered making any statement with it, so click it and laugh and try not to put these words in my mouth.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?d ... 3-19&res=l

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:10 pm

Amazing how indivisuals such as Ronski and Ancient complain about people that cite to them info about Bush=Hitler and never cite back with proof it's wrong.

Ancient · Post by **Ancient** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:49 pm

I've never even talked about the bush=hitler thing. I've tried my best not to show any political affiliation. I was never arguing against any idea expressed in any political posting. I've never talked about any current event/political-social ideology/politician, wanting to keep everything I was saying void of such things. I've never tried to argue politics. I'm not arguing politics, and I won't argue politics. I'm confident you'd guess wrong about my political standing anyway, so please don’t arbitrarily assume things about me.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:52 pm

My bad,

I forgot the name of the thread and the context of the original post.

Is that a back pedal in the background I hear?

It's no biggie. Really, dont sweat it, I'm not trying to bait you.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:10 am

ronski wrote:...someone else will just HAVE to toss in BU$H = HITLER, right?...

ITYM you = HITLER.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:11 am

DVD Burner wrote:....I'm not trying to bait you.

ITYM "bate".

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:42 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote: One inmate, Lawrence Frazier, the diabetic, died after being hit with an
electric charge. Another, David Tracy, who had been diagnosed with
mental illness, jumped off his bunk with a makeshift rope around his
neck in plain sight of a guard who did nothing to come to his aid, said
David Fathi, a senior staff counsel for the A.C.L.U.'s National Prison
Project.

Hell, you don't have to be a felon to have your mental health needs ignored by govment fishels.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:43 pm

On Society
By John Leo
Double-standard trouble
First the shock of the Abu Ghraib prison photos, then the aftershock: a surprising debate over whether they should have been published at all. Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online argued that details of the prisoner abuse were about to pour out anyway. He said the inflammatory pictures were unnecessary. In response, Aaron Brown of CNN said: "You don't appreciate what happened in that prison until you see it." So Goldberg wrote a second column: If snapshots and images tell the story better than words, why don't the networks show us a "partial-birth" abortion? Surely such pictures would add to our understanding.
Good point. I don't entirely agree with Goldberg. Although I thought the first wave of photos should have been published, I belong to the "enough, already" school of thought--no more Abu Ghraib pictures, please. I get the idea. But if, as Brown argued, graphic detail is essential to understanding stories, why did the media agonize over (and largely suppress) close-up photos of the dismembered bodies of the four American civilians murdered and torched at Fallujah? The tape of Berg being beheaded is in the public domain. Why doesn't Brown demand that CNN show it so that we can better understand terrorism? And why did the networks and the print media withhold the grisly 9/11 pictures of bodies hitting the ground at the World Trade Center? Many factors are at work here, including queasiness about pouring violent images into family newspapers and broadcasts. But surely one factor is a semiconscious double standard: The media are more likely to show what is done by Americans than what is done to Americans. Group attitudes about American power and values tend to affect news judgment. No surprise there.
Clinton did it. The Iraq war has turned out to be a festival of double standards. Just about everybody who insisted on an apology from President Bush for seven months of pre-9/11 failure to confront terrorism demanded no such apology from Bill Clinton for his perjury and assorted lying and for eight years of doing almost nothing about terrorism. Democrats who are purple with rage that Bush went to war without U.N. approval rarely mention that Clinton did the same thing three times--in Bosnia, Kosovo, and in Operation Desert Fox (the bombing of Iraq in 1998). And those in the news business who have spent so many months admiring the moral authority of the U.N. have basically looked the other way as evidence accumulates about corruption in the oil-for-food scandal. I first noticed the story in January on ABC's fine online operation, the Note, which carried some exact figures on the size of individual bribes. But the major media downplayed--dropped, would be a better word--the story for many weeks. Even now oil-for-food news is buried way inside most newspapers or simply ignored. One might conclude that the barons of the news business are not very interested in negative stories about the U.N.
Not all double-standard winds blow from the left, of course. Consider the debate over Donald Rumsfeld. Many Republicans who are loudly defending him took an opposite position over Janet Reno, author of the botched raid in Waco, Texas, and thus the leading example of ministerial incompetence under Clinton. Consistency principle: Both Reno and Rumsfeld should have resigned. Reno was responsible for more than 80 deaths, including women and children. By sitting on the Abu Ghraib story for months, Rumsfeld has dealt a crippling blow to the American effort in Iraq. Even if he is not implicated in orders that may have led to the abuse, he surely is guilty of failure on a grand scale. Rumsfeld, like Reno, should have quit. Neither would have lasted two minutes in a British cabinet, or in any properly run private enterprise.
But the left, and particularly the old left, is far more culpable when it comes to blaming America and forgiving our enemies. Consider the American Library Association, which is up in arms over the Patriot Act because it allows the FBI to get library and bookstore records without informing readers or anyone else. But the ALA recently voted to ignore a bigger threat to the freedom of librarians: In Cuba, Fidel Castro has held 10 librarians for more than a year in one of his grim gulags, along with 65 other pro-democracy dissidents. One activist says the librarians are being kept in "medieval cages." Apparently romanticizing Castro, like so much of the old left, the ALA overwhelmingly rejected a resolution calling for the librarians to be released. In general, this is the reflexive stance of the literary left. Some 40 organizations, plus many authors, are protesting the Patriot Act and the alleged totalitarian John Ashcroft, while ignoring the library issue in the real-life totalitarian state to our south. Is it too much to expect some consistent principled behavior from the librarians, the press, and the politicians? Apparently so.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:00 pm

Bill Clinton for his ...eight years of doing almost nothing about terrorism.

what a crock,

I believe the hearings showed this to be quite the bald faced lie.

The transition folks were taling about it from day one but Bush and his cabinet were not interested. They had eyes only for Iraq and tax cuts. Fortunately for them they were able to sell the former after 9/11.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:14 pm

Off the drift, but...

Political humor and satire have always had forms in artistic expression, dont think that would be out-of-place at bman.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:16 pm

spectabillis wrote:Off the drift, but...

Political humor and satire have always had forms in artistic expression, dont think that would be out-of-place at bman.

RIGHT ON!

That was my point. I dont express that well enough.

thanks spect.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:52 pm

You know something,

If I can sit through an interview of Bush senior no matter how much I don’t like him and his views, I don’t see how any Burner cant do the same no matter how much they don’t like either side. Republican, democrat or independent.

"Cant we all just get along."

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:51 am

It's important to listen, glad you have the stomach for it. I find it next to impossible to watch tv news....reading works for me.

Politics and Burning Man don't mix

.

Bman body politic

Re: Bman body politic