Q1-Little Civic that could-trailer over NW passes to BRC

[dreamorph]

Hello there fellow burners,

I am finalizing our travel and mobility plans for Burning Man this year and I thought I would solicit some "wisdom of the crowd" advice from you all.

Question 1 - The little Civic that could - taking a trailer over the passes to the burn:

I am looking for some feedback from those familiar with driving from the northwest with a trailer attached to a fairly basic car (not a big truck). Does anybody have a similar trip story where things worked out or some other specific experience or advice here? I am not a driver and have never done it myself so I'd appreciate the "go or no-go" or any other specific advice.

<b>Basic plan and equipement and cargo:</b>
We are currently planning on getting a UHaul trailer and attaching a hitch to our driver's 2004 Honda Civic 4 door which UHaul clocks in at 2518 lbs. We did the research and it seems that UHaul is the only real trailer rental place we can find. After checking our specs we will likely be getting a Sportframe 1 1/4 inch Rec Class 1 hitch rated 2000 installed by UHaul for a total of 290ish ($120 hitch, $60 harness for brake/turn lights, $40 hitch ball, $80 installation). This Gives us a 2000 lbs capacity and we are thinking of getting a 5' x 8' closed trailer (208 cubic feet) that weighs 900lbs, leaving us 1100lbs capacity (ten day quote is $199 plus $100 for their insurance). That 1100 lbs should be plenty for our gear: food, clothes and camping gear for 3, two bikes and maybe a gokart or scooter and the 60 gallons of water (2gal * 3 peeps * 10 days) a bit of gas if there is a gokart and whatever miscellaneous unforseen stuff might be added (no big heavy art projects though).

Our route to the burn:
The three of us are taking the following route to the burn - http://tinyurl.com/GwallyRoute3toBurningMan

It's basically the same as GWally's excellent driving directions from the northwest. We are using Route3, the low pass version with the overnight stop at Summer Lake hot springs.
Route3 overview: http://gwally.com/directions/000418.php
Full guide with some custom maps of key spots in each town: http://gwally.com/directions/guide.php

<b>How should we prepare the car? Should we scrap the car and rent a Penske?:</b>
We will probably want to get the transmission checked and fluid topped up (and I guess brakes too) before we go, but other than that does it seem like this Civic could do the job and not come back a too much worse for wear? I suppose we will need to be careful not to stress things too much on the uphills on the passes and to be careful with brakes or gear down on the downhills.

Thanks for any advice you have and see you on the playa,
Tony the Tiger

[C187]

1) Go to your profile and enable BBcode and HTML.

2) Get that civic into the servicing bay and have the works done now. / Or rent the van.

3a) Rent the trailer for a day, load it and do a dry run for the day. / Do a dry run with the can

3b) Find your actual MPG with all the stuff on the trailer/van

4) Stop K... that's just not going to happen. As anyone who has ever gatecrashed before can tell you. It's a clusterfuck in Gerlach because non-rsr assholes turn the only northbound lane into the "gas lane" and impatient hippies try to pass them by turning the south bound lane into a north bound lane. Oh and everyone seems to forget about the 18-wheelers heading south, and the fact that choo-choo's pass on the tracks before the fucking gas station.

Your looking at 90-95 miles from your stop J to BRC. (for car: The interwebs say you should be getting 25-40mpg, with a 13ish gal tank. You will be fine. But check your MPG from your dry run and do the math yourself.)

5a) Why do you need a gokart or scooter?
5b) Look at your surival guide for infos on scooters.. most are banned.
5c) I'll let someone else take up the whole gokart thing....

[motskyroonmatick]

In my opinion 2,000 lbs is way to much to haul with a honda civic. Rent a van.

[MeSx3]

I agree... rent a van. that seems like alot of weight for a civic.

[Rice]

I have a 2009 Ford Escape V6 and hauled a similar trailer last year to the burn. My fuel usage was nuts... I drove down to the burn through Montana & Idaho, the mountains had me stopping at almost each gas station.

I have also taken a fully loaded 2005 Honda Civic (4 cylinder) and frankly it barely made it over some of those mountain passes. You know you have a minor power issue when a loaded semi passes you while going uphill...

Rent a van or use a more powerful vehicle. It is not worth the stress!!!

[Token]

2000# with a Civic is scary.

Your water alone is over 300#.

Get a lighter trailer. Uhaul should have an open frame version of the small trailer with no box.

Strap everything down under a good strong tarp.

Bring empty 5 gallon jugs and lids and buy water in Gerlach. They are selling water this year from the treatment plant.

Consider ditching the bikes or buying in Gerlach if available.

Test the surge brakes on the trailer.

And most importantly, drive no faster than 55 Mph. There is a reason that number saves allot of lives.

[haolegolucky]

Um...I'd probably go with a van rental instead.

Less stress on you AND the civic.

[teardropper]

I tow a 1000# teardrop trailer with my Subaru Forester, which has a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder engine. I tow it all over the Northwest. Makes for some slow, high pass going but I do it. Wouldn't want much more weight. Don't think you should/could tow 2000# with a Civic. Rent the van.

[Playa Foot]

The factory says your Honda can tow 1,000 pounds. That is not a lot of cargo when that includes the weight of the trailer. You may consider a Harbor Freight trailer they are cheap and relatively light.
If you decide to tow get your car throughly checked out. Your transmission, brakes and cooling system are going to get a workout.

[oneeyeddick]

Harbor freight trailors are not designed for highway speeds, and they are crap.

You will prolly burn up the transmission in the Honda if you take that much trailor weight .
If it were a stick it would be better.

Rent the van.
you won't regret it, but you might if you take the honda.

[Bluemandrew]

We're towing from CT with a neon. I'll let you know how it goes...

[Lucian]

I ditto on the small harbor freight trailor. You can also buy them at Fred Meyers if you live where they are. About $230. You have to put it together and add the floor and sides.

Unlike another poster said, they tow fine at freeway speeds. But you should never tow at high speed with any trailor. Keep it down to 55 or 60. If you are a compulsivly fast driver, don't tow please. I've taken mine to BM twice and it's in California now. The max load in one of these is about 900 pounds.

Ditch the go cart idea. You are not allowed to use it anyway. Ditch all extra weight.

If you have an automatic don't do it. You may burn up the transmission going up passes. And going downhill with an automatic is even worse.

The most dangerous part of the trip is not going up passes. It's going down !!! The last pass has 15mph corners. Put it in second and go slow. If you go faster, you will heat up your brakes and they will stop working. Your honda will go over a cliff and become an art project. Jump out before going over the cliff.

[Elliot]

What the others said -- find a larger vehicle instead of pulling a trailer. Trailer-towing is NOT as easy and safe as U-Haul would like you to believe.

By the way, word is Penske will not rent for Burning Man, so look elsewhere.

[oneeyeddick]

Unlike another poster said, they tow fine at freeway speeds.
Most of those say in the instuctions or on the box they come in that they are not to exceed 45 or 55 MPH, and freeways speeds around here are 65-75, no matter where you are.
Go that fast with them for and extended time and the bearings will likely overheat.

But you should never tow at high speed with any trailor.
Unless the trailor is designed for it, then keep on Truckin' !

If you are a compulsivly fast driver, don't tow please. And if you plan on riding a bicycle to burning man, please don't

My advise comes from knowing what I'm talking about and from having done it all before and from towing trailors professionally for a living and seeing those piece of shit trailors with 12 inch tires off the road all the time with thrown bearings coming down Williamette highway from the northwest.
Why the hell am I wasting my time all the time if someone with 5 posts is going to come along and tell people that I am a liar ?
Fuck it, no more sincerely honest and helpful advise is going to come from me ever again, now go jump off a fucking cliff, will ya ?

[swampdog]

go-kart - see re: mutant vehicles. If it isn't already approved by DMV (that's department of mutant vehicles and has nothing to do with the state) it's not going to hit the playa - you'll have to leave it in impound for the duration.

45/55 mph limit on trailers from uhaul - the guy at my local uhaul said "that's just so we can say we weren't liable if you have an accident at higher speeds. Nobody pays any attention to them". I've hauled a u-haul 5x8 comfortably at freeway speeds

If you're coming from north of Olympia then consider GWALLY's route 4. If you don't make it over the hill, at least you're still close to civilization.

Make sure you know what insurance you're buying. My understanding from uhaul is that you are insuring the TRAILER. So if you wreck the trailer, (and are driving under 45/55) you don't have to pay U-haul back for it. Seems like a pretty bad bargain. But then, if in the rare case I do wreck the trailer, I can afford to pay them back.

If you're coming from Seattle or north, PM me. I've got a half ton truck and plan to pull a 5x8 uhaul flatbed. One year I hauled a friend's 20 ft trailer successfully (scary as hell, in hindsight probably not a good idea, but the truck did fine). PM me - I could consider hauling a bigger trailer (at your expense) and take some of your stuff. I'm coming from Bellingham.

[Just_Joe]

Make sure you know what insurance you're buying. My understanding from uhaul is that you are insuring the TRAILER. So if you wreck the trailer, (and are driving under 45/55) you don't have to pay U-haul back for it. Seems like a pretty bad bargain. But then, if in the rare case I do wreck the trailer, I can afford to pay them back.

My insurance agent tells me that while my Travel Trailer is attached to my car, it is part of the car and is covered by my cars insurance. YMMV. Not sure if someone else's trailer (Uhaul) gets the same consideration....

[gyre]

What engine and transmission?

Do you know the GVWR of the Car?
And the current wet weight or curb weight?
Is the car stock?

You can look at each component's weight rating separately.
You can only use the maximum rating of the weakest part and that is only a guide.
Then you have to look at what the car and driver can handle safely.

Trailers can be pulled at highway speeds.
Some trailers.
My small utility trailer would be okay at 100 mph, depending on load and the vehicle pulling.
Most trailers are not that good, just like most cars.

To max out towing capacity, you want sports car handling to begin with, and then you fine tune.
Good shocks, good tires and adding or upgrading to good anti-sway bars is the first step.
Spring tuning may be needed, usually in the rear.

If you have an automatic transmission, you will need a cooler for it, which it already needs if it doesn't have one.
These are inexpensive.
It should be inline after the radiator cooling.
Good synthetic transmission fluid, like redline, is a good step.

Evans radiator fluid is an improvement.
Some cars need upgrades to use it.
Consult with evans about this.

I wouldn't try to pull over 1000 pounds over the mountains with this car, though it could be done, perhaps unhappily.

[gyre]

If you aren't sure about your brake pads, upgrade to better pads, preferably front and rear, but front first.
Napa severe duty are excellent, if available.
Since hondas are extensively raced, you have wide choices, and not just for brakes.
Entire brake kit upgrades are readily available.

Don't use too cold a pad, unless you're prepared to deal with it.
The napa, in a 3600 pound car with massive pads, runs cold below 50 degrees ambient for the first stop, and is very even after that.
A honda may vary.

Slotted and/or cold tempered rotors are another option.

[Stickygreen]

leave the honda at home, rent a van, you won't regret it.

[dinks]

If your dead set on taking the civic, you will need a lighter trailer. If your civic is automatic, the first time you need to accelerate up a hill you will be killing the transmission.

If it were me, I'd take the $600 you would be spending on this setup and rent/borrow/buy a cargo van.

[gyre]

Don't use an automatic in lockup mode.

Once again, I recommend the trailer life books on towing.

On hitches, check the dealers used car lot for take offs.
Shop around.
Almost everywhere is cheaper.
I just paid $9 for a 2" 3500 lb ball at northern tool.
Try not to buy chinese.

I prefer drawtite and hidden hitch receivers.

Check CL.
I am adapting pickup receivers for a friend's van and maybe mine.
Paid about $50 for them.
I've seen them up to $150 used for the very heavy duty.
I have also seen the heavy equalizer setups for under $200, though not the hensley.
I usually get the heaviest one I can find, though it can mean some extra weight to carry around.
In an accident, all this gear takes a beating.
It is one less thing to fail.

Many shops can adapt a close match and even reinforce them.
That may or may not be possible on a honda.
Some shops still custom build.

Don't skimp on the hardware.
And use good safety chain.

A 2" receiver is most convenient for using bike racks and other things.

[gyre]

I just checked with a good local hitch shop that quoted me $215 for a ford ranger drawtite class 3 receiver.
$159 to pick it up and install it myself.
That's without electrics.

He says many companies have been consolidated and prices jacked up, with a corresponding drop in quality.
Unrestricted free enterprise in action.
Only your lives at risk, after all.

They are reasonable, but not cheap.
Always good quality.
So that should serve as some sort of price comparison.

[crstophr]

Kudos on doing your homework and math. You've really thought it through, which is great. What folks said about maintenance is very important. I'd like to know one more thing about your vehicle...

Manual or automatic transmission? If automatic... does it have a transmission cooler? If you have an auto tranny that's the achilles heel of this vehicle for towing. It's not going to handle the heat generated by climbing the big hills. Even if you go slowly. A cooler would possibly give it a chance but I wouldn't do it. You'll either cook the fluid and fry the transmission or if you're lucky drastically shorten it's lifespan even with the cooler. It's just not engineered to handle sustained pulls up long grades.

The second thing to think about is braking. The downhill run after alturas is brutal. Getting up the hill will kill your tranny. Going down it can kill you and everyone else in the car. You have to be able to stop all that weight without overheating your brakes. If they overheat they'll stop working and you won't stop. Don't go down a hill any faster than you can go up it is a decent rule. A small trailer like that won't have trailer brakes and your car is only sized to handle it's own weight in braking.

I'd highly recommend renting something else that's suited to the task. The risk you're taking is having something bad happen and ruining your burn.

[gyre]

I think all the uhaul trailers have surge brakes.
Others vary.

[gyre]

Is there a question 2?

[portaplaya]

Here are some other comments about towing with a Civic:

Civic Forums: http://www.civicforums.com/forums/7-hon ... acity.html

I'll also point out that the Civic is rated as a compact (sub-compact for early models) with a curb weight of about 2300Lbs. When you put people and a trailer on that, you have just doubled the load before even loading the trailer.

Heck, the weight capacity (not towing, just what people and gear can weigh) is 850 lbs. Good luck getting three people and camping gear.

Last, the survival guide has updated recommended water to 1.5 gal per person per day. That will save you [b]120lbs[/b] right there!