OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

[Elderberry]

Capitalism is the only way to go IMHO; but only when carefully regulated.

[ygmir]

Capitalism is the only way to go IMHO; but only when carefully regulated.

l

on that we agree.
so, then, it comes down to, a discussion of regulations.
What I hate, is, a bunch of shit heads in d.c. doing it, with little or no regard for what's right, or what will help, but, based on re-election funding, personal power, and spite.

the spot were in now, (IMHO) is purely a function of the fed. gov. With the correct rules in place, and, a certain amount of inherent intellect in the populace, it would not have happened.
But, we had a combination of shit head politicians, regulating, de-regulating, making legal, then not, so many rules, no one could keep up, and understand. And their corrupt brethren, in some financial circles, inventing new ways to cheat and lie, knowing it for what it is, and buying the acceptance and mis-direction of said politicians, who, should have seen it for what it was.

Couple that, with a self entitled populace, too lazy to read fine print and think for themselves, but, so wanting instant gratification of goods and services, that, they'll do anything to "keep up with the neighbors", including investing in obviously flawed (Madoff, et al) schemes, loans they can't afford, credit cards beyond their limit to repay, and, a feeling they "deserve" new cars, houses, boats, whatever. Immediately

Given the above equation, how can anyone expect it to last, or work for long?

*steps down off rock*

[cowboyangel]

Capitalism has built within it the mechanisms for insuring its own deregulation. Any doubts about that just look at what it has become and what it has wrought. Ask Valdez fisherman who are still wrangling with EXXON decades after EXXON-Valdez, BP, Massey Energy, Tar Sands pipeline, fraking, Fukushima....capitalism's satanic child- the global corporation as become the 21sy century Frankenstein, killing indigenous people the world over for resources, killing us with toxic chemicals ( most cancers are caused by chemical toxicities of various sorts [ Dr. Samuel Epstein] ) perverting our electoral process and our democracy, creating a permanent debtor class of people starting with debt hobbled students, poisoning our rivers, land base and fueling a system of employment that depends primarily on waging numerous, globalized wars. Capitalism is a sickness. It's out of control. People need to take control of the economy, work to strengthen the role of individual states, start state banks, bring back serious regulation, start a real tax payer revolution, end the corrupt two party system and pray.

[Elderberry]

Hope I don't see too many more ideas...

This is a rediculously misleading photo.

[Ugly Dougly]

Capitalism has built within it the mechanisms for insuring its own deregulation. Any doubts about that just look at what it has become and what it has wrought. Ask Valdez fisherman who are still wrangling with EXXON decades after EXXON-Valdez, BP, Massey Energy, Tar Sands pipeline, fraking, Fukushima....capitalism's satanic child- the global corporation as become the 21sy century Frankenstein, killing indigenous people the world over for resources, killing us with toxic chemicals ( most cancers are caused by chemical toxicities of various sorts [ Dr. Samuel Epstein] ) perverting our electoral process and our democracy, creating a permanent debtor class of people starting with debt hobbled students, poisoning our rivers, land base and fueling a system of employment that depends primarily on waging numerous, globalized wars. Capitalism is a sickness. It's out of control. People need to take control of the economy, work to strengthen the role of individual states, start state banks, bring back serious regulation, start a real tax payer revolution, end the corrupt two party system and pray.

= cash has no conscience.

[Ugly Dougly]

Hope I don't see too many more ideas...

This is a rediculously misleading photo.

Yeah, I know. I'm too lazy to lay it out, though. Care to elucidate?

[Bob]

[gyre]

Survival of the fittest is why we replaced the neanterdhal.

They practiced it, we didn't.


Which system?!!!

Why do you think there is such a thing as "a system" for either one?

We know very well that uncontrolled 'free market" capitalism never stays free.
And even the old ussr freely mixed capitalism with socialism.

Bad management is not a reason to condemn any system, but a good reason to control them.


Free market = Somalia

[Elderberry]

Yeah, I know. I'm too lazy to lay it out, though. Care to elucidate?

I'll just point you to one of a myriad of articles on this.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

[ygmir]

Capitalism has built within it the mechanisms for insuring its own deregulation. Any doubts about that just look at what it has become and what it has wrought. Ask Valdez fisherman who are still wrangling with EXXON decades after EXXON-Valdez, BP, Massey Energy, Tar Sands pipeline, fraking, Fukushima....capitalism's satanic child- the global corporation as become the 21sy century Frankenstein, killing indigenous people the world over for resources, killing us with toxic chemicals ( most cancers are caused by chemical toxicities of various sorts [ Dr. Samuel Epstein] ) perverting our electoral process and our democracy, creating a permanent debtor class of people starting with debt hobbled students, poisoning our rivers, land base and fueling a system of employment that depends primarily on waging numerous, globalized wars. Capitalism is a sickness. It's out of control. People need to take control of the economy, work to strengthen the role of individual states, start state banks, bring back serious regulation, start a real tax payer revolution, end the corrupt two party system and pray.

so, are you blaming the system (capitalism), or, those using it?
and, is there a better one?
Surely, if you say the above about capitalism, at least as bad, or worse, can be said about communism, using Soviet and Chinese gross pollution, which still goes on, as examples?

or, are you saying, we just need to do it better?

[ygmir]

Hope I don't see too many more ideas...

This is a rediculously misleading photo.

are you saying there's no mercury, no neurotoxins, or that it doesn't cost 4 bucks-ish?

I don't follow the misleading statement.

[gyre]

You're still referring to capitalism and communism as though they are clear cut cystems, which they aren't, and as two opposite systems, which they aren't.



I wouldn't bring pollution into the argument.

There has finally been murder by pollution convictions of officals of us companies operating overseas.
Plenty of outright murder by individuals to make sure pollution is unopposed too.
The wars continue in many places.

Not a sterling record.

The usa still has enough horror show dumping to shine.
The bush era dumping will take 150 years to clean up.
Cost in trillions.

In lives, only estimates.

[lemur]

lol. idiots.


i cant believe im seeing that stupid CFL trash talk here.


CFL LIGHT BULBS: WHERE THE TEA PARTY ASSHOLES AND OCCUPY ASSHOLES COME TOGETHER IN A PERFECT STORM OF IGNORANCE!



all hail ignorance

[cowboyangel]

Capitalism has built within it the mechanisms for insuring its own deregulation. Any doubts about that just look at what it has become and what it has wrought. Ask Valdez fisherman who are still wrangling with EXXON decades after EXXON-Valdez, BP, Massey Energy, Tar Sands pipeline, fraking, Fukushima....capitalism's satanic child- the global corporation as become the 21sy century Frankenstein, killing indigenous people the world over for resources, killing us with toxic chemicals ( most cancers are caused by chemical toxicities of various sorts [ Dr. Samuel Epstein] ) perverting our electoral process and our democracy, creating a permanent debtor class of people starting with debt hobbled students, poisoning our rivers, land base and fueling a system of employment that depends primarily on waging numerous, globalized wars. Capitalism is a sickness. It's out of control. People need to take control of the economy, work to strengthen the role of individual states, start state banks, bring back serious regulation, start a real tax payer revolution, end the corrupt two party system and pray.

so, are you blaming the system (capitalism), or, those using it?
and, is there a better one?
Surely, if you say the above about capitalism, at least as bad, or worse, can be said about communism, using Soviet and Chinese gross pollution, which still goes on, as examples?

or, are you saying, we just need to do it better?

I'm not offering a choice here. Chinese communistic capitalism, their gross polluted footprint on the world and whatever flavor of brutal corrupt gangster state is now Russia is not the alternative. I'm starting to think that the federal government is beyond hope, beyond repair. I guess I'm favoring a states rights approach. It will be up to individual states to save themselves. The Federal government certainly won't no matter what douchebag from what party is running it. The key is banking and the "republican", "red state" of North Dakota is oddly enough, leading the way with its state bank as a model. Over 13 states now have some form of state bank legislation winding their ways through legislatures now. Private banks are insolvent, too big, and too dangerous. We need some form of government...let that be on the states level. I think we'd have a stronger nation. I'm not a states rights neo-civil war kind of guy either. We need some combination of the two that serves the common people first.

Bucky Fuller said that the best way to overthrow something is to create a better system. State Banking may be that start.

[Sola Gangsta]

Apparently my sense of humor was too subtle for some people here. = idea

[Elderberry]

are you saying there's no mercury, no neurotoxins, or that it doesn't cost 4 bucks-ish?

I don't follow the misleading statement.

No, there is a small amount of Mercury, which would be the only "neurotoxin". But sertainly not enough to be concerned about or even be toxic to the nervous system. A mercury thermometer had 150 times the amount. Yes, they cost more, but they save more--about $50.00 in cost and energy savings over their lifespan compared to incandescent bulbs.

That picture implies an entirely different message.

[ygmir]

Capitalism has built within it the mechanisms for insuring its own deregulation. Any doubts about that just look at what it has become and what it has wrought. Ask Valdez fisherman who are still wrangling with EXXON decades after EXXON-Valdez, BP, Massey Energy, Tar Sands pipeline, fraking, Fukushima....capitalism's satanic child- the global corporation as become the 21sy century Frankenstein, killing indigenous people the world over for resources, killing us with toxic chemicals ( most cancers are caused by chemical toxicities of various sorts [ Dr. Samuel Epstein] ) perverting our electoral process and our democracy, creating a permanent debtor class of people starting with debt hobbled students, poisoning our rivers, land base and fueling a system of employment that depends primarily on waging numerous, globalized wars. Capitalism is a sickness. It's out of control. People need to take control of the economy, work to strengthen the role of individual states, start state banks, bring back serious regulation, start a real tax payer revolution, end the corrupt two party system and pray.

so, are you blaming the system (capitalism), or, those using it?
and, is there a better one?
Surely, if you say the above about capitalism, at least as bad, or worse, can be said about communism, using Soviet and Chinese gross pollution, which still goes on, as examples?

or, are you saying, we just need to do it better?

I'm not offering a choice here. Chinese communistic capitalism, their gross polluted footprint on the world and whatever flavor of brutal corrupt gangster state is now Russia is not the alternative. I'm starting to think that the federal government is beyond hope, beyond repair. I guess I'm favoring a states rights approach. It will be up to individual states to save themselves. The Federal government certainly won't no matter what douchebag from what party is running it. The key is banking and the "republican", "red state" of North Dakota is oddly enough, leading the way with its state bank as a model. Over 13 states now have some form of state bank legislation winding their ways through legislatures now. Private banks are insolvent, too big, and too dangerous. We need some form of government...let that be on the states level. I think we'd have a stronger nation. I'm not a states rights neo-civil war kind of guy either. We need some combination of the two that serves the common people first.

Bucky Fuller said that the best way to overthrow something is to create a better system. State Banking may be that start.

I'll high five ya there, CA and thanks for putting that out there.......after all, the orignal thought, was "nation states" loosely combined by a small fed. gov., but, most of the power, was to be with the state. And, it should still be.
I'm very 10th amendment.........

[Elderberry]

Capitalism is the only way to go IMHO; but only when carefully regulated.

l

on that we agree.
so, then, it comes down to, a discussion of regulations.
What I hate, is, a bunch of shit heads in d.c. doing it, with little or no regard for what's right, or what will help, but, based on re-election funding, personal power, and spite.

the spot were in now, (IMHO) is purely a function of the fed. gov. With the correct rules in place, and, a certain amount of inherent intellect in the populace, it would not have happened.
But, we had a combination of shit head politicians, regulating, de-regulating, making legal, then not, so many rules, no one could keep up, and understand. And their corrupt brethren, in some financial circles, inventing new ways to cheat and lie, knowing it for what it is, and buying the acceptance and mis-direction of said politicians, who, should have seen it for what it was.

Couple that, with a self entitled populace, too lazy to read fine print and think for themselves, but, so wanting instant gratification of goods and services, that, they'll do anything to "keep up with the neighbors", including investing in obviously flawed (Madoff, et al) schemes, loans they can't afford, credit cards beyond their limit to repay, and, a feeling they "deserve" new cars, houses, boats, whatever. Immediately

Given the above equation, how can anyone expect it to last, or work for long?

*steps down off rock*

All the money needs to be taken out of politics. Corporate personhood needs to be reversed. How can politicians regulate companies and banks that, in effect, have them on their payroll?
Political campaigns need to be funded by the government and small, limited, personal contributions.

[Dr. Pyro]

Cowboyangel, we actually agree more than you think. I believe the North Dakota system, using a state (read: local) financial institution to save money and red tape is a wonderful idea and I would support that whole-heartedly. It's sending money to D.C. just to have some of it sent back to, say, California to be put to work is stupid and wasteful. A layer of burearucracy that is simply unnecessary. Anybody who argues otherwise needs to be watered twice a week. If you can keep the money locally (and I recognize that non-locals use the roads, bridges, etc. but that is also reciprocal) and used appropriately, who wouldn't think that was a better system? Oh, wait, I think I could name a few.

[Bob]

CFLs are still stupid to use in many cases.

Another cite.

[Elderberry]

Yup, leave it all to the states. They have proven how wonderfully they handle things like education, civil rights, women's rights (abortion), seperation of church and state, and the list goes on.

[Ugly Dougly]

I don't know how much N Dakota money is coming to California, likely the other way around, but I get your tack. Generations of "lawmakers" digging up pet projects for their districts is rotting away our ship of state.
What do we say at TTITD? Oh, yeah, burn it down and build a new one.

[Ugly Dougly]

CFLs are still stupid to use in many cases.

Another cite.

Like most products, including tap water, they require precautions. I wouldn't say "stupid".

[ygmir]

Capitalism is the only way to go IMHO; but only when carefully regulated.

l

on that we agree.
so, then, it comes down to, a discussion of regulations.
What I hate, is, a bunch of shit heads in d.c. doing it, with little or no regard for what's right, or what will help, but, based on re-election funding, personal power, and spite.

the spot were in now, (IMHO) is purely a function of the fed. gov. With the correct rules in place, and, a certain amount of inherent intellect in the populace, it would not have happened.
But, we had a combination of shit head politicians, regulating, de-regulating, making legal, then not, so many rules, no one could keep up, and understand. And their corrupt brethren, in some financial circles, inventing new ways to cheat and lie, knowing it for what it is, and buying the acceptance and mis-direction of said politicians, who, should have seen it for what it was.

Couple that, with a self entitled populace, too lazy to read fine print and think for themselves, but, so wanting instant gratification of goods and services, that, they'll do anything to "keep up with the neighbors", including investing in obviously flawed (Madoff, et al) schemes, loans they can't afford, credit cards beyond their limit to repay, and, a feeling they "deserve" new cars, houses, boats, whatever. Immediately

Given the above equation, how can anyone expect it to last, or work for long?

*steps down off rock*

All the money needs to be taken out of politics. Corporate personhood needs to be reversed. How can politicians regulate companies and banks that, in effect, have them on their payroll?
Political campaigns need to be funded by the government and small, limited, personal contributions.

I'd go with all that, except, NO personal contributions.......if it's ok, someone will find a loophole, and, it'll be business as usual.

I'd even go so far, as to set media time, debates, print ads, and, that's what they get. period.

I could see unlimited personal appearances for speaches and "stumping", though. No media coverage, just plain ole talkin.
And, I'd either pay them, nothing, to attract the virtous, or, a lot, to attract "the best". not that those two have to be mutually exclusive. And closely monitor their wealth, personal and "remote".

[Elderberry]

CFLs are still stupid to use in many cases.

Another cite.

The risk is minimal. I can remember actually playing with the mercury from an old thermometer that broke when we were kids. Something is going to kill you, but I doubt it will be those light bulbs. There are things on the playa that should be much more cause for concern than those bulbs.

But I'm not even sure why I'm defending them, I don't care if people use them or they don't. I don't use them in every lamp either.

[ygmir]

Yup, leave it all to the states. They have proven how wonderfully they handle things like education, civil rights, women's rights (abortion), seperation of church and state, and the list goes on.

well, CA handles that stuff fine, no?
and, I bet a lot of other states would, too.
and, well, if Mississippi doesn't, then leave.
and, what if the folks in Idaho want to allow the pledge of allegiance?
How, is it up to people from NV and WA, or wherever, to tell people in ID how to do things?
As long as people would be free to move, how, could each state, setting it's own standards and practices, be bad?

[ygmir]

I don't know how much N Dakota money is coming to California, likely the other way around, but I get your tack. Generations of "lawmakers" digging up pet projects for their districts is rotting away our ship of state.
What do we say at TTITD? Oh, yeah, burn it down and build a new one.

wait.......Dougly, didn't you just defend, the HST in CA, and or L.A to L.V., even though it's totally a pet project of Reid/Boxer?

[Bob]

Trouble is, you have to read the warnings for your dimmers and recessed cans too.

Oh, your electrician threw them out?

[Sola Gangsta]

philosophercommedian.jpg

[Sola Gangsta]

Hope I don't see too many more ideas...

I really didn't intend to focus on this as an issue, it was just a bit of dry humor in response to Cowboy about stuffing envelopes in response to spam credit card offers. But since we apparently want to talk about this here, I'll say that what I do find disturbing is not so much the single incidence of this type of light bulb, but the cumulative effect that all these laws have to poison us. It's not just the bulbs, but the mercury fillings in our teeth, the flouride in our toothpaste and water, the MSG and thousands of various chemicals in our food and general lack of concern for the environment. The effect is cumulative and there seems to be a concerted effort by some in high places to mis-place the blame for our health. The Framingham heart study has been called a scam by some of my friends in the medical profession. I don't know enough about chemistry (my main field is computer science), but anyone who isn't concerned is just sticking their head in the sand because these reports are so prevalent.