Gifting economy in our life

[MisaBlue]

Very interesting thing has happened today. Our government (for those who don't know, I speak about Czech government) is proposing new law on universities - they want more political power over them, trying to cut academic freedom, cutting the rights of students and putting tuition fees into the system. It is quite horrible. They already stepped against the law by not giving the proposal out to universities representatives to comment it and it remind to many of us the communist times.

Getting to the point. We had discussion at our university today and of course we had spoken about all of the above and the hot topic was tuition fees. At one moment the vice dean of Charles University (BTW university which was founded more then hundered years before Columbus landed in America) had stepped out and said, that the tuition fees at universities are very idiotic. As we know two kind of economics - exchange/barter and gifting and that the principals of giting economics should be strong in education...not because it should be for everyone, but because when you are gifted you have strong feeling to also give and share and you also learn it and that is how it shall work.

In further discussion was said that nothing in that law will actually apply on us, who are currently studying, but our gift should be to remain strong in our moral principles and go to the streets to protest and help to the younger ones and their parrents, who will be affected. Than one guy had stood up and said, well, we will be the parrents one day, we are helping ourselves anyway. 

And with that statement that we are the future parrents we went home and tomorrow we are going for the demonstration.

[Savannah]

Wow!

[EspressoDude]

question Misa: What do students now pay at university?

[graidawg]

sorry Misa i must disagree it is NOT giftingwith a gift i have choice, but your tuition fees are paid for by tax with there is no choice about, in england i have lived from grants to fees. i have also lived from 10% of school leavers to 50% of school leavers going to uni. should I pay for your better chance of a job and better wages? i already pay for your education (figuratevley i live in england and you dont).

[EspressoDude]

local universities:
Oregon 2581 to 2929 usd per quarter year based on 15 credit hours for residents. non-residents are 3x
Washington 3449 usd per quarter year based on 15 credit hours for residents. non residents are 3x also.

above does not include housing, room and board costs

[MisaBlue]

@ED, nothing...only if we prolong the studies, if we study second school...

@Grai, thanks for that! It is good point, stated as that it is not gifting.
On the other hand - bigger salary = bigger taxes (and yes, tha taxes goes to the health care and unemployment care/help, social benefits as well)...well, still not gifting...

[graidawg]

misa i do approve of free uni education but only fo those that earn it, by studying. if its for everyone then pay for it, no free rides for the masses. i am sure thats a contradiction
. I could of gone to uni for free ( back in the day) but i didnt study. ironically i could go now and get a bursary but if i was 18 and got the grades now that i got then could go but pay for it which is fair. studying is not a free ride most of my friends from school did it and now their degrees dont mean much beacuse every other 21 year old has one.
either esrn it by being clever, studying a lot or pay for it. simple

[MisaBlue]

misa i do approve of free uni education but only fo those that earn it, by studying. if its for everyone then pay for it, no free rides for the masses. i am sure thats a contradiction
. I could of gone to uni for free ( back in the day) but i didnt study. ironically i could go now and get a bursary but if i was 18 and got the grades now that i got then could go but pay for it which is fair. studying is not a free ride most of my friends from school did it and now their degrees dont mean much beacuse every other 21 year old has one.
either esrn it by being clever, studying a lot or pay for it. simple

I am not sure what you mean.

[theCryptofishist]

I think he's saying that the free tuition grants should be dependent on your studying and getting good grades. If you play around and don't do well, then you can pay or go to work.

[MisaBlue]

I see...

But if you dont study they kick you out of the school.

[theCryptofishist]

That's what I meant by "...or go to work." Forgive me. I'm sick and I should go to bed. My english is kinda crappy as a result.

[mudpuppy000]

Hmm, here we have to pay and they still kick you out of school if you don't study.

[MisaBlue]

Hmm, here we have to pay and they still kick you out of school if you don't study.

and I completely agree with that



Well, it was very interesting to listen to that discussion. There was also opinion that if you pay the education, you buy it as a product and you don't have the relationship with it, that you just expect to get it. There was pretty big arguing about that.

[BBadger]

You have some severe misconceptions about what constitutes a "gift" and how that relates to tuition rights.

That tuition isn't free. It's paid for by your citizens' taxes. If you want to call "free" tuition a right then you're entitled to believe that; however, that tax-paid tuition is not a "gift" by any measure. Fundamentally, anything you're forced to provide is not a "gift", but an obligation.

Nor would I believe that rights teach much about "gifting"--maybe cooperation, the benefits/problems of socialism, or rights. Gifting is something personal, a decision to willingly provide someone with something--not be forced to through tax machinations.

For myself, I'd be more upset that the state can meddle in the schools more if they're going to require tuition. Forcing students to pay tuition should make the universities more autonomous than they otherwise should be being dependent on state taxes.

[wh..sh]

You have some severe misconceptions about what constitutes a "gift" and how that relates to tuition rights.

That tuition isn't free. It's paid for by your citizens' taxes. If you want to call "free" tuition a right then you're entitled to believe that; however, that tax-paid tuition is not a "gift" by any measure. Fundamentally, anything you're forced to provide is not a "gift", but an obligation.

Nor would I believe that rights teach much about "gifting"--maybe cooperation, the benefits/problems of socialism, or rights. Gifting is something personal, a decision to willingly provide someone with something--not be forced to through tax machinations.

For myself, I'd be more upset that the state can meddle in the schools more if they're going to require tuition. Forcing students to pay tuition should make the universities more autonomous than they otherwise should be being dependent on state taxes.

+1000. I deleted everything I just typed. Spot on!

exchange/barter and gifting and that the principals of giting economics should be strong in education...not because it should be for everyone, but because when you are gifted you have strong feeling to also give and share and you also learn it and that is how it shall work.

This really doesn't work all the time and for most part is an assumption. Most university students are really only at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy. Money is a strong driving and motivating factor at that level.

[maryanimal]

Misa, Where I live in Washington state, Anyone can apply for grants if they meet the income requirements. These are helpful and don't have to paid back. Then there are student loans that have to be paid back.

If you keep your g.p.a (grade point average) up, you can continue to get grants/student loans. However, if your g.p.a continues to plummet and doesn't get better, you'll have your grants/loans suspended until your g.p.a shows a solid improvement, then you can get your grants/loand again, But until that happens, you have to pay for the schooling by yourself. Most students can't afford it on there own, so they never go back to school. But that's their fault for not studying like they should.

[gyre]

Access to schools was cut here, so college could be used to force the poor into military service.
Works too.

[BBadger]

My cousin had her schooling paid for by her dad, and even after 7 years has still not graduated, nor even settled on a major for that matter. I think paying your own way sets higher expectations for yourself (like not wasting your money), and it's one reason I think "college trust funds" and other "saving for my kid's education" funds are handicapping rather than beneficial.

[theCryptofishist]

There are broad social benefits to having more well-educated people who are trained in critical thinking.
College is not for everyone.
Having people in school keeps them out of the workforce, which means the labor pool is smaller and there is less unemployment.
This country is importing doctors and exporting medical care, a trend I find disturbing. We aren't making as many mathematicians as we should, either.
All my above statements are broad and can be argued about and refined. I don't feel like it right now.