Are plug and plays brainwashing the new burners?

[TomServo]

If your dead set on justifying your comfy lifestyle, I guess anyone will believe their own rational.

That's all any person can do when finances are limited. Why should someone that can afford a comfy lifestyle on the playa or anywhere else for that matter have to defend, explain or rationalize it to those that can't?

I'm sure you love it, but people who flaunt their wealth deserve ridicule, in my opinion. But really, I just don't like lazy fucks.

[lemur]

lol.

yes yes, just existing is flaunting it..

where have i heard that one before.

[lemur]

I'm sure you love it, but people who flaunt their wealth deserve ridicule, in my opinion. But really, I just don't like lazy fucks.

please quantify how paying money for services used on playa equates to "lazy"

[TomServo]

Flaunt your freedom, flaunt your hippie ass till you're blue in the face! And I will cheer you on! But flaunt your wealth, and I will hold my nose and raise a finger.

[TomServo]

I'm sure you love it, but people who flaunt their wealth deserve ridicule, in my opinion. But really, I just don't like lazy fucks.

please quantify how paying money for services used on playa equates to "lazy"

Paying to have everything done for you is pretty fucking lazy.

[TomServo]

The great thing about camping, whether in the woods or on the playa, is it's GEARED towards helping you LEARN how to do things for yourself. And, the more SERVICES you buy the more it DEFEATS the purpose.

[Elderberry]

I hate camping, but I respect your right to do it.

[canexplain]

I get more confused after reading some of these threads. I like peeps and a community camp does have it's advantages. My problem just day to day is I don't like to depend on anyone for anything. I'll die trying to help you, give you the shirt off my back, but no I don't need help pounding in a stake. I'm older than most so sometimes I'll let a young dude help me but mostly it's because I think it makes them feel good. The only real thing I think about is H2O. Medical a bit although I haven't been to a doc in maybe 5 years. Just last month I was gone for a month camping (about 25 days total with only 2 hotel nights). You can say over and over that BMan is sooo different than other events but maybe that is a bit elitist? I'll figure it out because a few weeks after that, I have to head to NOLA for an event.

[lemur]

please quantify how paying money for services used on playa equates to "lazy"

Paying to have everything done for you is pretty fucking lazy.

how is it lazy?

lazy where? to whom ? in what way ?



is enjoying the MAN BASE lazy, or the temple? i didnt set it up, am i a lazy fuck for enjoying it?

theres only so many stakes to pound in the ground... if you dont spread the stake pounding load amongst every single camp member, are the ones who dont do it lazy?

it reads like you have a warped view of what 'lazy' is..

it seems like what youre saying is:

if you dont live in a tent: youre lazy.

so 1 hour or less for a couple in a single tent ..maybe 3 or 4 hours of setup if you have lotsa shade in a tiny camp.. = makes you not lazy?

i dont see much connection between how long it takes to setup camp.. or how tough it is to cook dinner to being lazy.

[TomServo]

JESUS H FUCKING CHRIST!

[Elderberry]

Please don't use The Lord Jesus' name in vain.

[graidawg]

And lo, the thread did end with much disagreement and gnashing of teeth, for the people of the tent and the people of the rv could not agreee. While those who paid for their camp and did reside in trailers pulled by lackeys did look down and laugh greatly, for they would not drink the kool aid, nor would they read of the eplaya. Thus their burn would be affected not at all
And it was prophesised that in less than the passing of one page the dead horse gif would appear, though this would not signal the end of posting it would show that henceforth none would in anyway be listening nor even comprehending.

[Elderberry]

And lo, the thread did end with much disagreement and gnashing of teeth, for the people of the tent and the people of the rv could not agreee. While those who paid for their camp and did reside in trailers pulled by lackeys did look down and laugh greatly, for they would not drink the kool aid, nor would they read of the eplaya. Thus their burn would be affected not at all
And it was prophesised that in less than the passing of one page the dead horse gif would appear, though this would not signal the end of posting it would show that henceforth none would in anyway be listening nor even comprehending.

And the winner is!!!! Great post.

[TomServo]

Please don't use The Lord Jesus' name in vain.

was not in vain

[TomServo]

graidawg, I love your enthusiasm!

[CornMan]

One interesting thing about the big time Plug and Plays is that the employees have their own living quarters, and when they are off shift, they are not to attempt to visit and fraternize in the paying clients' area. While the client's who pay $10,000 to for Plug and Play membership will occasionally go out and slum on the open playa, they do not wish to intermingle with the non paying members while in their private space. There were a few cases of some of the paying clients having a lot of fun with the working people and hanging out in the worker's quarters almost exclusively, but this was the exception.

[CornMan]

I have a friend who is an employee of the biggest P&P. I don't think the people here on eplaya realize just how Beverly Hills the P&P dynamic is.

[Simon of the Playa]

I have a friend who is an employee of the biggest P&P. I don't think the people here on eplaya realize just how Beverly Hills the P&P dynamic is.

so, now its a Jew thing, huh....


meshugganah fecotah putz.

[TomServo]

Why? Is this what you want?

[media]

[CornMan]

I have a friend who is an employee of the biggest P&P. I don't think the people here on eplaya realize just how Beverly Hills the P&P dynamic is.

so, now its a Jew thing, huh....


meshugganah fecotah putz.

I'm sorry, but i don't understand the Jewish reference.

[ygmir]

wealth? flaunting? lazy? entitled? jealous?frustrated?

the segment of humanity in which this argument is occurring, is so, so narrow, really.

How about looking at it from the average 3rd world POV?

"......and this rich guy, in America, is pissed at another rich guy, because the second one has more luxury"..........
"well, how much luxury does a person need?" " hell, "poor" rich guy spent more than our whole family lives on for a year, just to go to some camping trip in the desert. And the person he's mad at, spent the entire budget for our village! ...............

First world problems? First world anger and judgement?

well sure, you're totally entitled to be pissed, resent or even hate, anyone, for anything.

But really, the anger and energy seems misplaced. How about "Burn and let Burn" and, use that energy to have more fun, do something that makes you feel better about yourself, and that might be helping someone even less fortunate, than yourself.

[ygmir]

I have a friend who is an employee of the biggest P&P. I don't think the people here on eplaya realize just how Beverly Hills the P&P dynamic is.

so, now its a Jew thing, huh....


meshugganah fecotah putz.

I'm sorry, but i don't understand the Jewish reference.

[Elderberry]

Please don't use The Lord Jesus' name in vain.

was not in vain

It is any time you use a word like fuck in the same sentence. Like Fuck the Lord for example. Or Fuck Christ, or Jesus Fucking Christ.

[CornMan]

wealth? flaunting? lazy? entitled? jealous?frustrated?

the segment of humanity in which this argument is occurring, is so, so narrow, really.

How about looking at it from the average 3rd world POV?

"......and this rich guy, in America, is pissed at another rich guy, because the second one has more luxury"..........
"well, how much luxury does a person need?" " hell, "poor" rich guy spent more than our whole family lives on for a year, just to go to some camping trip in the desert. And the person he's mad at, spent the entire budget for our village! ...............

First world problems? First world anger and judgement?

well sure, you're totally entitled to be pissed, resent or even hate, anyone, for anything.

But really, the anger and energy seems misplaced. How about "Burn and let Burn" and, use that energy to have more fun, do something that makes you feel better about yourself, and that might be helping someone even less fortunate, than yourself.

I think you're completely off base. If this were a car show, motorsports race, wine tasting event, State Fair, or any other event that does not request that participants honor the 10 principles of Burning Man, we'd show none of what you perceive to be envy or anger. Many of us here do not consider the large payments of legal tender in exchange of offloading their radical self-reliance to some paid employee on the playa in favor of radical entitlement does not pass the test. Yes, there are degrees of camp dues for infrastructure, but what we're witnessing here is blatant bullshit. How did you feel about the Krug Champagne dinner? Did you feel radically included?

[ygmir]

wealth? flaunting? lazy? entitled? jealous?frustrated?

the segment of humanity in which this argument is occurring, is so, so narrow, really.

How about looking at it from the average 3rd world POV?

"......and this rich guy, in America, is pissed at another rich guy, because the second one has more luxury"..........
"well, how much luxury does a person need?" " hell, "poor" rich guy spent more than our whole family lives on for a year, just to go to some camping trip in the desert. And the person he's mad at, spent the entire budget for our village! ...............

First world problems? First world anger and judgement?

well sure, you're totally entitled to be pissed, resent or even hate, anyone, for anything.

But really, the anger and energy seems misplaced. How about "Burn and let Burn" and, use that energy to have more fun, do something that makes you feel better about yourself, and that might be helping someone even less fortunate, than yourself.

I think you're completely off base. If this were a car show, motorsports race, wine tasting event, State Fair, or any other event that does not request that participants honor the 10 principles of Burning Man, we'd show none of what you perceive to be envy or anger. Many of us here do not consider the large payments of legal tender in exchange of offloading their radical self-reliance to some paid employee on the playa in favor of radical entitlement does not pass the test. Yes, there are degrees of camp dues for infrastructure, but what we're witnessing here is blatant bullshit. How did you feel about the Krug Champagne dinner? Did you feel radically included?

\
I was more aiming at perspective:
such anger of such a problem! such energy wasted, with resentment, whatever the reason.
really, though. How important is it, that everyone use a tent? or whatever?
I read radical inclusion, as just that.
Just as you have every right to judge how others Burn, they have the right to do it as they will.

drawing lines is a slippery slope.
Is a 10' camper ok if it's more than 20 years old?
what if it's bigger? or newer?

[CornMan]

I'd say one simple line in the sand not to cross would be giving placement to camps that use paid employees to work in the camps at the BM festival while the festival is going on to take care of basic camping needs for able bodied attendees.

[theCryptofishist]

It needs to be dirtier, muddier, hotter, biting insects, colder at night, rainy. Why aren't people telling their friends how fucking awful this whole experience is? I don't get it.
Can we at least agree on leave no trace? I think the commodification horse has left the barn.

Actually, the commodification horse will not have left the barn until you can actually sell stuff on the playa. Everybody has always been spending lots of money on camp, shade, art, gifts, fire, art cars, etc. but once through the gate, the commodification principle starts. (except for ice and coffee)

There are others. RV potty servicing and locksmith being two more. I forget how many in all.

[Elderberry]

I'd say one simple line in the sand not to cross would be giving placement to camps that use paid employees to work in the camps at the BM festival while the festival is going on to take care of basic camping needs for able bodied attendees.

Are you then suggesting that first camp not place themselves!

[CornMan]

I wouldn't include the BMORG. They don't apply for placement anyway.

[Elderberry]

It needs to be dirtier, muddier, hotter, biting insects, colder at night, rainy. Why aren't people telling their friends how fucking awful this whole experience is? I don't get it.
Can we at least agree on leave no trace? I think the commodification horse has left the barn.

Actually, the commodification horse will not have left the barn until you can actually sell stuff on the playa. Everybody has always been spending lots of money on camp, shade, art, gifts, fire, art cars, etc. but once through the gate, the commodification principle starts. (except for ice and coffee)

There are others. RV potty servicing and locksmith being two more. I forget how many in all.

I'm sure there are others. You also forgot the purveyors of party favors. I'm not really bothered by those sorts of services. I would "draw the line" on street vendors, food trucks and the like. And anyone sponsoring an event that they intend to use for publicity and profit.