Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

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Canoe
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:13 pm

@CDCgov changes high transmission definition overnight
.
CDC-director changes transmission def.jpg
.
Ok... So let me get this straight.
Two days ago @CDCgov said my county had "Substantial Transmission" and warned against being indoors unmasked.
And today @CDCDirector dropped all mask mandates.
Just wanted to make sure I got that straight.

https://twitter.com/dianaberrent/status ... 5465672705
New CDC Guidence based on COVID-19 Community Levels
70% of U.S. no longer on recommendation of wearing masks indoors.
Looks as though children are being thrown under the bus.
What the new guidance does NOT do:
1. does NOT change air/rail mask guidance which is set to expire 3/18
2. does NOT take into account that by the time you see hospitalizations increase, its a bit too late
3. does not utilize test positivity as a factor

lets remember that children under the age of 12 have almost NO therapeutic options if they get covid and that we have >1000 kids who have died from covid/many parents of kids under 5 are scared,

https://twitter.com/kavitapmd/status/14 ... 1220530179
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:12 am

Long Covid Kids
While Covid-19 causes relatively mild disease in most children, previously healthy youngsters are showing signs of longer-term issues related to the virus.

[includes] "So far I'd say that between two-thirds and three-quarters of children with long Covid recover after three months, but there are a subset, around 10-20% that have not recovered spontaneously,"

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2022 ... long-covid
Global Daily New Cases shows as on the backside of the Omicron surge, but current values are still above all prior waves. This wave is also very asymmetrical: the down slope is much slower than the surge.

Global Deaths shows signs of being past the peak. Despite cases being significantly higher (~400 %) than prior, this wave's Deaths peak was 75 % of the highest prior wave, and this wave also presents as a shorter period. But the whole down slope has yet to play out.

U.S. Daily New Cases is significantly down.
U.S. Active Cases has also started down from a peak around 300 % of the highest prior wave, but its down slope is significantly shallower than the surge's rise. Currently at ~89 % of the peak, the U.S. is still dealing with a large infected population.
Vaccines are doing their job as U.S. Deaths has also peaked at around 77 % of the highest prior wave peak, despite the huge case surge. It shows a different character on its down slope side, but it's too early to say what the character of that slope is other than to tentatively call it more drawn out.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:37 pm

Rural parts of the U.S. have fallen even further behind in vaccinating people against Covid-19 since all adults became eligible for vaccines, making reducing death tolls in those areas difficult, the CDC said.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1499487295547879429

Covid Live Updates: Rural Parts of U.S. Fall More Behind in Vaccination Rates, C.D.C. Says
The U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy, said top tech platforms must provide the major sources of misinformation and how much users may have been exposed to it. “This is about protecting the nation’s health,” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/03 ... tw-nytimes
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:59 pm

Global Deaths appear to be firmly down to pre-Omicron levels.

The U.S. still has over 25 million Active Cases. Moving up on one million deaths, while over one million Excess Deaths.

New Cases per million population. U.S. down to 62 (but that's on top of an already loaded health care system). Canada at 92. No sign of Omicron BA.2 surging New Cases.
Many countries in Europe (including the destinations of the Ukrainian refugees) are over 1,000, even over 2,000. I.E. Netherlands getting Omicron at 3,389. Omicron in Austrailia at 1,381. New Zealand 4,634. Ice Land 7,346.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by HarryN » Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:35 pm

Using this fairly simple graphic from Alameda County, California as an "indicator" and very loose interpretations.

https://covid-19.acgov.org/data.page

Roughly every 6 months there is another wave coming through. (peaks roughly December / January and July / August ).

The summer peaks look like they are roughly 1/2 of the size of the winter peaks.

This would imply that summer 2022 isn't looking so great if it follows this trend at all.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:12 pm

I believe you're looking at too small a data set.
  • Look at the whole of the U.S. for Daily New Cases. Waves.
  • Then look at Active Cases. Less wave like, more surge. Shows the time it takes for active infections to subside.
    Current U.S. Active Cases is 25,724,877, still over 2.5 times that of the highest pre-Omicron peak of 10,206,727.
For how low the Daily New Cases is, it's sure taking a long time for the accumulated infections to clear up. Hopefully the slope of the Active Cases down turn will get even steeper soon. It's certainly steeper than the negligible down slope that followed Delta from September 27, 2021, and is already meaningfully steeper than what followed the peak of late January 2021.
(Take where we are now, use that early 2021 slope, and see where that puts Active Cases for a Burning Man 2022. Hopefully the shorter infection time provided by sufficient vaccination will show up as a steeper & steeper slope, and not be impeded by those who gambled without being vaccinated, or started too late.)
Covid-19 2022-03-02 Active Cases (Currently Infected).jpg
And then, when is the next Variant of Concern going to turn up. Omicron BA.2 is hitting lots of places in Europe pretty hard. Elsewhere too. Will it make a run in the U.S.?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:27 pm

Wow. 😐
Today the Danish CDC announced:
* 30% ppl who caught covid have long covid 6-12 after
* 60% of Danes had omicron
18% of 🇩🇰 will have long covid 6+ months later w/those numbers.
Grim. For Danes, Denmark, and anyone following their trajectory.
https://twitter.com/_mbdr_/status/1499808551698587651
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Token » Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:03 pm

Canoe wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:27 pm
Wow. 😐
Today the Danish CDC announced:
* 30% ppl who caught covid have long covid 6-12 after
* 60% of Danes had omicron
18% of 🇩🇰 will have long covid 6+ months later w/those numbers.
Grim. For Danes, Denmark, and anyone following their trajectory.
https://twitter.com/_mbdr_/status/1499808551698587651
I’m pretty sure it’s grim for the whole planet.

The Danes just did the reasonable act of giving a fuck about it and doing the right thing. Like, science and shit

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:23 pm

Token wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:03 pm
The Danes just did the reasonable act of giving a fuck about it and doing the right thing. Like, science and shit
They did. And really really well.
Until they didn't.

They got hugely slammed by Omicron BA.2 out-competing on top of their Omicron BA.1 slam, making for a significantly higher slam.
Canoe wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:14 am
... Denmark has really been hit with its Omicron BA.1 & BA.2 surge. It's reached 260,445 cases /million population, and 1 case in every 4 people, 1 death in 1,585. Denmark has just under a half million active cases with a population of 5,824,186, for 8.46 % infected. ...
Canoe wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:46 pm
... Today #COVID death rates surge again in Denmark as restrictions are eased for many. ...
Easy restrictions right as the Daily New Cases peak finally eased, not after it dropped. And the Active Cases peak got extended. From an Active Cases highest prior peak of 43,345, to a week over 570,000 Active Cases, peaking at 579,645; that's 1,337 %. That's with a population of 5,826,299.
Then they tried to spin the numbers, and got caught out.
Canoe wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:47 am
[*]People have done the math with Denmark's numbers. Denmark authorities who removed the covid protective measures have been claiming that the resulting huge "perceived" wave due to including with-Covid numbers. This has been shown to be false. The from-Covid % of hospitalizations & ICU are shown to be huge waves by themselves, and avoidable had they not removed the country's covid protective measures.
Their Active Cases are only now almost down to 284,551, ~half of the peak of their slam, still over 6.5 times their highest prior peak.

Graphs here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/denmark/
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:20 pm

Oops
not overly material, but errors
Canoe wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:23 pm
... Easy Easing restrictions right as the Daily New Cases peak finally eased, not after it dropped. And the Active Cases peak got extended. From an Active Cases highest prior peak of 43,345, to a week two weeks over 570,000 Active Cases, peaking at 579,645; that's 1,337 %. That's with a population of 5,826,299. ...
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by HarryN » Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:46 pm

I am sure that you are right that my data set from using only Alameda County is too small.

There are a few reasons that I chose it though:
- I live in this county
- It is a "possibly indication" of the larger SF Bay area, so it "might" indicate the experience that many people associated with BM might experience and make plans around.
- My "perception" is that other areas with significant international airports might have share similar experience waves since these variants seem to be spreading out from the source(s) to other regions via international travel
- There has been a fairly decent acceptance of vaccines in the region, so it isn't as if people here are ignoring what options are available.
- We have had a lot of lock downs / travel restrictions, so as a practical level, the typical person in the area has been trying to avoid getting sick as an active strategy.
- Until very recently, mask wearing was extremely common, but this guardrail is coming off quickly

I am not really qualified to make the necessary extrapolations / interpretations that a true professional in the field can provide, even though at one time, I took the math classes. All I know is that if someone were to show me that graph as representing a stock price, I would be really tempted to buy in the spring and sell in late summer.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:13 pm

Still too small of a sample size. And anyways...
HarryN wrote:
Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:46 pm
... All I know is that if someone were to show me that graph as representing a stock price, I would be really tempted to buy in the spring and sell in late summer.
Timing the market based on past graphs. The pros would, as they always do, be sincerely happy to take your money. And that's with graphs that have years, sometimes decades, of data charted. Way too many simple changes and random events that make lies of historical charts. I've developed a number of custom indicators, a scaled-weighted-biased outlier formula, and once spent six months designing, building & testing DSP filters. With that assistance, and looking at periods with leading edge data for months, weeks, days & all the way down to quarter-second data, I still wouldn't time by neither charting nor a historical graph or graphs.

Now, how many years or decades of data do we have of COVID-19 cycles (and is it even a cycle, or just a series of outbreaks), from which to discern cyclic patterns with meaningful confidence factors? So much of what has happened with COVID-19 has multiple changing factors. Like waning of any post-infection immunity, changes in discovered science, changes in compliance of protective measures, political changes in protective measures, changes in vaccination/booster uptake rates, waning of vaccines/boosters, new variants' infectiousness, loads, severity, fatality, morbidity, immune avoidance & what level & duration of post-infection immunity, out-competing between variants, etc.. Science doesn't even know what factors will apply going forward, let alone how they will present; they can only run with what is now known. COVID-19 is one of the most random-event plagued (sorry, can't think of a better word) events we've ever seen.

Charts show where you've been, and potentially a tentative indication of what is happening 'right now'. But forecasting by charts is problematic to start with, now throw in all of the COVID-19 changes, changing and randoms. It's like you're riding a real roller-coaster you don't know, is constantly getting rebuilt, and your view of what is up next is only presented to you on a virtual reality headset - not viewing what is actually ahead, which is subject to change anyways.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by HarryN » Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:32 pm

There is a point where too large of data set removes the useful trends.

Let's take weather as an example. If we average all of the temperatures around the world, it would tend to smooth out the impact of winter and summer, but these are very real regional, annual events.

In general it doesn't matter what the temperature is in Argentina when it comes to predicting if it will be hot or cold on the playa in any given August. You don't need a large data set to know roughly what is going to happen and data taken in S America or even North Carolina isn't a good prediction of rainfall in Reno, NV.

Now that scientist are starting to understand the origins and medical causes of the variants, it starts to become more clear why these events are cyclical in nature - and why they will continue to happen for a long time.

It is possible that the very fast ending of healthy spacing guidance could cause the current cycle to drag out for quite a while, but that has almost nothing to do with when the next variant will begin it's cycle.

I don't mind being told that I am wrong, but it is helpful to have a basis for why my thinking is incorrect. I am pretty hard headed though - so I might still not get it.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Canoe » Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:46 am

I get your point about too large of a data set. One that includes data that's irrelevant. But if you're doing the analysis correctly, that will separate. (We'll ignore that your example shows nothing of how weather modelling works.) That's why with all of the continued movement of people within the United States, and a comparatively significant curtailing of international travel, I believe the U.S. data set is the best to be looking at. Although it should be noted: people come to BRC from all across the States (from the world, but likely a lot of that will still be reduced); and, variants found in one location in the world were quickly discovered to have moved (already moved, not detected yet) from one continent to another surprisingly quickly, regardless of the huge reduction in international travel. If you want an example where that travel was hugely curtailed, hence a population largely isolated, look at Australia then at New Zealand. Looking at such a small geographical area as you are, one that still had significant travel with the rest of the U.S., I put forth that such a small geolocation data set is only truly valid for seeing for that area "how screwed we are/aren't" right now, plus given what it's been doing in the near past (is it still going up, is it sill going down, waffling sideways or changing) what should we expect in the immediate future (before we have the latest from the proper models available from the epidemiologists).

While fine for us to dabble in it, using charts for such simplistic "analysis" is not how the professionals do it. There are validated models used for proper analysis, and have been available from surprisingly early in 2020, as data became available. There's a few people on eplaya that are familiar with such modelling. They've posted on that in prior topics and may or may not be inclined to get into trying to explain that with people like us who are using simple graphing/charting.

> Now that scientist are starting to understand the origins and medical causes of the variants, it starts to become more clear why these events are cyclical in nature - and why they will continue to happen for a long time.
I've seen nothing in the literature that the cause of COVID-19 variants are a puzzle, have special origins, or special medical causes, other that what is seen in other viruses, other coronavirus, and was seen in the origins of SARS-CoV-2. Variants occur due to recombination. The more infections taking place, the more times new clades can occur. With new clades, the more chances there are for a new clade, or more practically a group of clades, that end up being different enough genetically that they present with different properties as a disease: viral load, infection point, infection rate, infectious period, severity, fatality, morbidity, etc., etc., etc., ... From those, we get variants that "get noticed", and some of those get recognized as "Variants Of Concern" and some of those can cause events like the Delta 'wave' or Omicron 'wave'. (One thing that may surprise you, is how often genome sequences of samples discover a new variant - as much as six months after that variant was in the population.)

There is hope that in time there will be cyclic patterns, like we see seasonally with the flu. And there was hope for climate effects on transmission, like heat, humidity & sunlight/UV, hence geographic locations that would appear "immune" due to reduced transmission exposure, and that could end up having cyclic infection increases due to seasonal variations in influencing factors. Note that the effect of factors vary with variants. Within that, as more infections equals more opportunities for recombination that results in mutation, cyclic infection increases would include an increased risk of ending up with a Variant of Concern. You also have human behaviours changing seasonally that can result in transmission "seasons"; like spending more time indoors with other people with windows shut increasing exposure hence transmissions. Another example of the human factor is how COVID-19 related social distancing and hand washing resulted in flu infections plummeting.

For practical example of variants, to use something more recent, tell me when Omicron was first in a population, what population, and do that for both Omicron BA.1 and Omicron BA.2.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Popeye » Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:40 pm

I recall reading that the timing of the cycle for flu had a lot to do do with the migratory timing of birds. ie that birds carried a slightly different type of flu across the world every year and the onset of flu season matched the arrival of migratory birds.
If that is true, I don't believe covid arrival would have any relationship to natural phenomena and would be more in sync with vacation/business travel and be unpredictable.
Everyone is so politically fucked up that they're segregating themselves in the name of equal rights and liberation.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by HarryN » Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:50 am

Apparently one of the paths for new covid variants appears to be in people with heavily compromised immune systems. Some preliminary studies are indicating that it evolves fairly aggressively in them and since their immune response isn't strong enough to kill it all off - it just continues to evolve until it escapes as a new variant.

There appears to be a fairly significant population in Africa with HIV who are receiving medication / treatment, so this keeps it under control for a while - until it doesn't.

I am not sure why, but there was a multi months time constant involved somehow.

Since international travel restrictions are not sufficient to completely stop the spread, it tends to next appear in places like UK, Netherlands, and other locations with international airports.

You will need to do the searching on your own to see if you agree with these preliminary findings or not.

_______

As a practical matter, if each burner on average spends $2-3 K going, including clothing, transportation, etc, then

(~ 70K people) x ( ~ $3K / each) ~ $200 million.

Probably even if there is a major covid outbreak, people will still go and just do another rebel type.

It is difficult to stop the water coming out of a fire hose by putting a hand in front of it, and it is an election year.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Elorrum » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:41 am

SARS-CoV-2 is associated with changes in brain structure in UK Biobank
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586- ... 7d0a1c0e11
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by HarryN » Sun May 22, 2022 8:11 pm

Looks like Alameda County, CA is entering another covid rate rise.

Somehow still on track for the every 5 - 6 month surge.

UC Berkeley area seems to be fairly hard hit (not surprising due to high density housing) and Dublin / Pleasanton area - not long after some public events.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by some seeing eye » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:35 pm

increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by The Rod » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:42 pm

It says right there in the official decree, we cant even make fun of our unvaccinated neighbors, and make no mistake, they are gonna be out in BRC and camping in your neighborhood.

Whats the fucking point in even bringing a megaphone to burning man nowadays?

#cancelculture
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by wraith » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:05 am

Don't worry, when the spread starts and they find out how much it costs to be airlifted to Reno because you can't breathe when COVID meets a dust storm...

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by some seeing eye » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:36 am

My observation is that decisions are a mix of the diverse views of the inner board, business reasons - revenue vs expenses, regulatory reasons, and the legal team.

We may think we have the perfect solution, but we are not party to their internal discussions or internal data.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Ballpark » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:41 am

Man, this bug just doesn’t want to die gracefully.
The next door neighbor caught it in December. Today he tested positive again and has congestion and a low grade fever of 100.6. One might think after catching it the first time he would have formed antibodies to fend off subsequent exposures. Apparently the mutations are different enough that the antibodies don’t have an effect on the new mutation.
I was reading on the Reddit LIB page regarding case spikes and it appears that there were quite a few new cases spawned at that event.
It’s got me wondering about this years burn. Will it be a super spreader event? I went the last two years without issue but there wasn’t 80k people there either.
It’s going to be interesting to see the results after this years burn.

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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Elorrum » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:58 am

With a lot of air travel to the burn and folks coming from all over the world, risk is there. Risky behavior adds to that. Consider monkey pox as well. A small percentage of a large number, is a large number.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by BBadger » Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:44 am

At least one regional, SOAK, has been a spreader event, despite requiring vaccines for attendance. BM probably will be a spreader event, but whether it is something that makes for a noticeable blip among the rest of the infections, is another matter.

Maybe we can strive to propagate our own variant/subvariant, the BM.22 variant or something.
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Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Token » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:15 am

UK is having a big spike of ba.4/5 right now.

Usually we trail them by ~ month or two.

It’s not looking good for timing on TTITD.

Let’s hope the extreme aridity on Playa nips the damn thing in the bud.

pink
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic
Location: Stagecoach, NV

Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by pink » Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:33 pm

I just took my first vacation in 2.5 years and got Covid (masking indoors) and ended up spending an extra 11 days at my sister’s house when I tested positive the day before I was supposed to fly home. And yeah, I was symptomatic (cold symptoms & fatigue). Gonna take a bunch of masks to the burn. Better to breathe in all the dust anyways.

And I’m vaccinated & boosted.
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!

HarryN
Posts: 87
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Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: None this year
Location: Livermore, CA
Contact:

Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by HarryN » Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:01 am

In spite of all of our efforts and avoiding it up until now - we now have a house full of covid - home tested positive. We have been behaving the entire time as if it is in full swing pandemic and still failed to avoid it. We made just one exception and went inside of a fast food place to buy a milk shake but still were masked.

Interestingly while there are symptoms in common - each has their own set as well. What is in common - more or less we are jellyfish at our most ambitious moments.

It definitely isn't a 3 day cold and not that pleasant, but we are feeling like it has an end in site.

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some seeing eye
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Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:59 pm

What's your radically self-reliant Covid plan?
1 Bring a fever thermometer and a timepiece with seconds for vital sign gathering.
2 Make a personal evacuation plan with your camp. Every camp should have a plan.
3 Write your will and legal incapacitation or death directives.
4 Bring those N95 masks.
?
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Elorrum
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Burning Since: 2007

Re: Round 3 of Covid vs the timeline (2022 episode)

Post by Elorrum » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:42 pm

Emergency services are discussing a plan for monkey pox. I don't know what it is, but If folks show up symptomatic for covid or pox, what will they do?

Here are some numbers. R naught or R0 is the reproductive number indicating the transmissability of a disease in a completely naive population. I think they are interesting for comparison. From Adrian Esterman Professor of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, University of South Australia. Right now, it indicates that this varient of covid is the most virulent disease ever. Do have a plan. Consider how you will navigate close contact: driving in vehicles, enclosed a/c chill spaces, rvs. Will you be able to seek medical care, if you need it? Read the updated info on main site about how to approach the medical services, if positive or symptomatic. You will need masks. They also have good suggestions for before and after burning.

I mentioned to a friend today that repeated infection and subsequent inflammation is causing long term issues in many individuals, and exacerbating preexisting conditions. Their response is ,"I don't do news." And if somebody gets infected, she's making stickers: "It's not your fault, It's your turn." I strongly dissagree. So much we do not know about this disease. I still think it is a risk to try to mitigate and not simply a lottery.

Wuhan original was 3.3
Omicron this winter was 9.5
Mumps 12
Omicron BA1 13.3
Measles 18
current BA 4/5 18.6
BA2.75 currently becoming dominant in India might be higher.

Update on main burning man site 7/13/22
https://burningman.org/event/preparatio ... care-2022/
”On second thought, Let’s not go to Camelot. It’s a silly place.”
Roll on through, Tumbleweed.

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