Ebike regulations

[M F Bonz]

I love horse power.
More is better as far as I’m concerned.
Nitro is my favorite fuel.
Gasoline Is for washing parts.
Alcohol is for drinking.
Nitro is for Racing
Electric is the future.

I don’t know where all this is going but I’m keeping a wait and see on the bike problem.
Public shame works pretty good in black rock.

I’m thinking an E-Lot.
Separate checks line from the tickets.
No registration for any E-bike off to E-Lot.
Get caught with an Unregistered E-Bike. Lose the bike for the event.

Get caught with an Unregistered E-Bike and speeding. Banned from the event.

But I really don’t know. Let’s wait and see.

[Elorrum]

The journal entry emphasizes the problems, feedback received, stresses the speed limit… and then disqualifies most of the bikes people already own, even if they were being safely operated and within power requirements stated previously.

Only Class one e-bikes will be allowed: motor activated by pedaling only. No throttle.

They might have chosen an actionable adjustment, because, you know, safety. Instead they put out a requirement that many will consider ignoring.

Since most never read, much less follow, burning man rules, this will be interesting.

If you are getting an ebike and are considering what to purchase, you are in a position to be compliant with new policy.

https://journal.burningman.org/2023/07/ ... c/e-bikes/

“What You Need to Know About e-Bike Class
Tl;dr: Class 2 and 3 e-bikes are NOT permitted in BRC! If you choose to accept the limitations and risks of riding an e-bike in BRC, understand the different e-bike classes as you look around at the options for investing in one:
* Class 1: The Class 1 e-bike provides assistance only when you pedal, and stops assisting when you reach 20 mph — great for bike lanes, bike paths, roads or anywhere you’d take a traditional bike.
* Class 2: The Class 2 e-bike is equipped with a throttle that provides a boost without pedaling, and stops assisting at 20 mph.
* Class 3: The Class 3 e-bike is equipped with a speedometer, and will assist when pedaling and respond to the throttle separately, until the bike reaches 28 mph.
Inside Black Rock City, Class 1 are allowed, and Classes 2 and 3 are NOT permitted — these are essentially motorbikes. “

[mdmf007]

Working ESD has shown me the evolution of BMAN in more ways than one - the latest trend the last few years I notice is the E bikes - thee things are simply motorcycles IMO. Easily see them doing 40-45MPH on open playa. Some major risk management needs to be done there.

[Elorrum]

Working ESD has shown me the evolution of BMAN in more ways than one - the latest trend the last few years I notice is the E bikes - thee things are simply motorcycles IMO. Easily see them doing 40-45MPH on open playa. Some major risk management needs to be done there.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is out of hand, maybe this is an easier actionable way to cull the dangerous, since a throttle is more evident upon a cursory inspection than a motor’s wattage. Still I am sensitive to the money people have already spent, pretty close to the event, on bikes that don’t have the assist only circuitry. People with mobility issues who can’t pedal with both legs perhaps. I think of the volume of bikes coming blissfully unaware, never reading rules.

It may nudge good safe burners who invested heavily to say “fuck that.” and new burners who paid to have a bike brought for them, who knows what they say. I’m curious to see how it turns out.

[lucky420]

[ygmir]

"Since most never read, much less follow, burning man rules, this will be interesting."

*notes old time, early Burners fainting*


** this is not an indictment of any sort, of Elorrum, just a note on the irony of reading this sentence**

[lucky420]

Raises hand over here in the corner “fuck that”

[some seeing eye]

Believe it or not, for all the complainers from the Temporary Autonomous No-Rules-Zone, almost every single rule is the result of participant serious abuse of other participants, or it is because BRC actually exists under federal law, state law, and the permit. Liability comes into play too.

The BORG has shifted ticketing to camps, so camps, be responsible for acculturation of your campers.

Burners are wealthy. They can take a week off from work, travel there, buy a ticket - even low income, and all their camping and survival gear. E-bikes are not cheap compared to a used beater bike.

Burners are experimentalists and early adopters, chalk this up to an agile dead end. Veterans have a good sense of what to bring and not bring, and virgins should seek advice in advance if they are not sure.

Personally, I would like to have the Census qualitative researchers find these bad things early and head them off, rather than let them get out of control. For instance, PnP was "discovered" in 2014 by ePlaya's Mr Jackass, and after a lot of navel gazing, we are still trying to dial it back!

[Token]

Hahahaha!

5 mph

That’s what they’re pushing all of a sudden.

I walk at 4mph.

Most walk 3.7mph - the number in all the EN, ISO standards worldwide for walking speed (6 km/h to be precise)

I couldn’t pedal a beater bike at 5mph without looking like a wobbly drunken fool if I wanted to!

But, no, seriously … it’s been 5 mph for twenty years … yeah, and it was ridiculous 20 years ago and no one cared to follow the rules.

Let me tell you all a little secret … for 10 years I pedaled my thrift store bought $50 beater Diamondback at the very least 15 mph and when crossing the morning to evening side of the clock - gasp - 20 mph! All by my lonesome, glutes n hams baby! I had places to be!

So, to wrap back to my original post in this thread …

Mr Biggus Dickus Supreme himself, Charlie Dolman, (who BTW zips around in a staff golf cart and it ain’t going 5mph, not even close), decides to slap-a-big-dick-down 30 days before build week and ban most e-bikes!

I’m gonna need more popcorn.

[Elorrum]

A question asked in the comments section of the journal announcement indicates to me that this is a soft rollout, maybe only a liability hedge with no policy for enforcement per se. They may catch who they choose to if any at all. The responder to a question about the new requirements said he had a “feeling” about playa enforcement. Oh, ok. Google playa ebike, there are companies committed to selling e-bikes for burning man and they have not limited their wares to class 1.

Q: Will they be checking for throttles on e-bikes at gate?

A: Thomas Monroe says: July 22, 2023 at 10:40 am
Gate volunteers won’t all be trained to know what a throttle is, and they won’t have time or energy to go through all of the bikes that come in piled onto trailers, while 2,000 vehicles are on gate road anxious to get in. I feel it’s going to be more about enforcement within the city.

[Elorrum]

They’ve redacted the whole section about the ebike classes, that stated, “class 2 and 3 are not allowed in BRC. “
What You Need to Know About e-Bike Class
Tl;dr: Class 2 and 3 e-bikes are NOT permitted in BRC! If you choose to accept the limitations and risks of riding an e-bike in BRC, understand the different e-bike classes as you look around at the options for investing in one:
* Class 1: The Class 1 e-bike provides assistance only when you pedal, and stops assisting when you reach 20 mph — great for bike lanes, bike paths, roads or anywhere you’d take a traditional bike.
* Class 2: The Class 2 e-bike is equipped with a throttle that provides a boost without pedaling, and stops assisting at 20 mph.
* Class 3: The Class 3 e-bike is equipped with a speedometer, and will assist when pedaling and respond to the throttle separately, until the bike reaches 28 mph.
Inside Black Rock City, Class 1 are allowed, and Classes 2 and 3 are NOT permitted — these are essentially motorbikes. “

(I added the glow and italics.)
I’m seeing borg folks saying that readers were confused by this, mistaking it for a prohibitive thing, freaking out unnecessarily, that it didn’t mean there was any rule change. (It was stated twice, It was in bold type, the word NOT was capitalized and there was an exclamation point at the end. C’mon.) so same rule as before: 750watt motor max, go slow.

“…before we create prohibitive e-bike rules in BRC, confiscate e-bikes at the Gate, require e-bike registration, or connect incidents of speeding to your camp performance (all potential solutions that have been asked of us to implement), let’s try this: 
Let’s solve it together. Whether on an e-bike, pedal bike, one-wheel, unicycle, or mutant vehicle: don’t be a dick, slow down.”
https://journal.burningman.org/2023/07/ ... c/e-bikes/

[Sham]

It appears to be a reconsideration, rather than participants being confused or misunderstanding.

[Elorrum]

It appears to be a reconsideration, rather than participants being confused or misunderstanding.

It was written clear as a bell. Now I’m seeing an explanation it was an editing mistake, and “a gap in communication” (and I don’t know what that even means)
And I don’t appreciate representatives inferring that the negative response people had to it was “freaking out.” Yes, because thousands upon thousands of e-bikes did not qualify, and at what $700 to 3 and 4 times that for each one. I wouldn’t dismiss people’s negative response.
Someone had an idea that the three class thing was a neat way to approach the problem, though they were lacking knowledge of the reality of how the majority of e-bikes work. A big Ooops would be acceptable, don’t you think? He’s a burner right? I’d laugh with him if he could swallow that. Pretending that it wasn’t a huge mistake or saying that it was over reacted to, doesn’t set well with me.

[mgb327]

I agree. The "original" wording was precise and absolute. "Freaking out"? Damn right Skippy. I am an "old fart", and my e-trike that I built pretty much is a necessity. Cheese and Crackers.

[Skuzzy61]

So, basically, we are back where we started. No rules and e-bike riders can do what they want as fast as they want. Why? Because X number of folks went and bought 50mph e-bikes to use on the playa and cried woefully about it when the original restrictions were released and they may not be able to get away with the abuse.

If my understanding is off the mark, then feel free to hammer me for it.

If e-bike riders had any respect for the people around them, then this would have never been an issue. I think.

[Elorrum]

If e-bike riders had any respect for the people around them, then this would have never been an issue. I think.

That’s it. It’s the same again, but maybe emphasized better? They have another year to count the accidents. Then maybe next year, if they give adequate time to participants, try to at least establish liability guidelines for the abusers.

I read this yesterday and it stood out: “While Burning Man wanted to bring change outside itself, the Default World was steadily infiltrating and changing Burning Man.”

[Token]

They’ve redacted the whole section about the ebike classes, that stated, “class 2 and 3 are not allowed in BRC. “
What You Need to Know About e-Bike Class
Tl;dr: Class 2 and 3 e-bikes are NOT permitted in BRC! If you choose to accept the limitations and risks of riding an e-bike in BRC, understand the different e-bike classes as you look around at the options for investing in one:
* Class 1: The Class 1 e-bike provides assistance only when you pedal, and stops assisting when you reach 20 mph — great for bike lanes, bike paths, roads or anywhere you’d take a traditional bike.
* Class 2: The Class 2 e-bike is equipped with a throttle that provides a boost without pedaling, and stops assisting at 20 mph.
* Class 3: The Class 3 e-bike is equipped with a speedometer, and will assist when pedaling and respond to the throttle separately, until the bike reaches 28 mph.
Inside Black Rock City, Class 1 are allowed, and Classes 2 and 3 are NOT permitted — these are essentially motorbikes. “

(I added the glow and italics.)
…snip

I’m good that they stripped out the classifications.

They messed up Class 3 which is exclusively pedal-assist and has no throttle. They cannot be ridden like “motorbikes”.

Also happy BDS got slapped down a notch. Fucking bro culture dude.

[lucky420]

So, basically, we are back where we started. No rules and e-bike riders can do what they want as fast as they want. Why? Because X number of folks went and bought 50mph e-bikes to use on the playa and cried woefully about it when the original restrictions were released and they may not be able to get away with the abuse.

If my understanding is off the mark, then feel free to hammer me for it.

If e-bike riders had any respect for the people around them, then this would have never been an issue. I think.

Dude, the rule is 5mph. What are you on about?

[Skuzzy61]

So, basically, we are back where we started. No rules and e-bike riders can do what they want as fast as they want. Why? Because X number of folks went and bought 50mph e-bikes to use on the playa and cried woefully about it when the original restrictions were released and they may not be able to get away with the abuse.

If my understanding is off the mark, then feel free to hammer me for it.

If e-bike riders had any respect for the people around them, then this would have never been an issue. I think.

Dude, the rule is 5mph. What are you on about?

I know that, but the issue is it is being ignored and there does not appear to be much being done about it. I am "on about" the fact that it is contributing an unneccessary risk.

[Token]

A class 2 e-bike, motorized couch, staffer in a golf cart, and a Zorb simultaneously arrive at an intersection from unique directions at a speed of 7.3 mph.

Who has the right of way?

[mgb327]

The stoned darkwad sparkle-pony you never saw, coming in at 25 mph.

[lucky420]

[Skuzzy61]

A class 2 e-bike, motorized couch, staffer in a golf cart, and a Zorb simultaneously arrive at an intersection from unique directions at a speed of 7.3 mph.

Who has the right of way?

Wrong question. Which one or ones, if any, do not give a shit about being hit or hitting someone else? Better yet, which one or ones will not realize there is anyone at the intersection?

[Token]

People often wondered why I went tooling around at night in a two-piece motorcycle racing leather ensemblé with full body armor …

… then the giant slide appeared, I went down a dozen times, going wee weee weeee!, while the rest of the crowd went limping and crying to medical.

Curate your OWN experience!

If you don’t feel safe, stay at camp and have a jolly time!

[junglesmacks]

First, HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII HEY GIRL HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

Yeah, I do love my e-bike and it's a complete game changer for the level that you're able to experience things. Two different worlds. See someone speeding like an asshole? TELL EM!

I'm officially switching from the white light police to Officer Dangle this year.




We built this city on rock n' roll n' bacon, kids. Immakeep buildin'.

See you in the dust, blinkin!

[art walsh]

The suggestion that LEOs would enforce the speed limit is wrong. The speed limit is a BORG rule. It is not a law.
Let's take a dumb example.
The BORG makes a rule that people must be naked from 1 AM to 6 AM. I wear a shirt. I haven't broken any law. I broke a rule. Do you really think a Washoe county sheriff would be able to cite you? They are law enforcement officers and you have broken no law.

[ygmir]

People often wondered why I went tooling around at night in a two-piece motorcycle racing leather ensemblé with full body armor …

… then the giant slide appeared, I went down a dozen times, going wee weee weeee!, while the rest of the crowd went limping and crying to medical.

Curate your OWN experience!

If you don’t feel safe, stay at camp and have a jolly time!

+1

[Skuzzy61]

People often wondered why I went tooling around at night in a two-piece motorcycle racing leather ensemblé with full body armor …

… then the giant slide appeared, I went down a dozen times, going wee weee weeee!, while the rest of the crowd went limping and crying to medical.

Curate your OWN experience!

If you don’t feel safe, stay at camp and have a jolly time!

Look at it this way. You are crossing a rope bridge, over a lava pit. Hundreds have gone before you, so there is a reasonable expectation that you will make it okay. However, some numchuk at the other end with an axe is now whacking at the ropes, laughing his arse off not realizing, or caring, you are on the bridge.

There is no amount of preparation which will make it okay to get hit by someone going 30 or 40 MPH, short of wearing a concrete bunker.

Zero consequences, for being irresponsible, has never lead to anything good.

Personally, I am not going to let these morons ruin my fun, unless they run over me and put me in the hospital.

[Elorrum]

Skuzzy, I agree that the guy with the ax chopping the bridge should be prevented from doing so. Having a sign that reads “people may like chopping on this bridge. Fuck you if you can’t handle it. In fact this sign shouldn’t even be here ” Isn’t the same.

I also think there would likely be a long drawn out argument here, even if the topic were murder. If anything, eplaya tries to teach me to pick my fights.

[Papa Bear]

The suggestion that LEOs would enforce the speed limit is wrong. The speed limit is a BORG rule. It is not a law.

I have it from people in the know that it is actually part of the agreement with BLM. If you doubt that, look at all the people who get pulled over on gate road for going a few miles over and then get their vehicles searched.

I'm not sure that agreement extends beyond motorized conveyances to non-assisted bikes, but it certainly applies to even pedal assist.

Apparently speeding was a common thing for people to get ticketed for at the renegade burn in '21, too. They don't really care out away from groups, but get twitchy when people are going fast in populated areas.