Hot Topic at Thunderdome? Sugary buds?

klondike_bar · Post by **klondike_bar** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:35 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
klondike_bar wrote:apparently the hot topic dome was pulled off by the DPW...
Apparently.

The word on Tribe.net is that it wasn't. And my basic thought is that whether or not if was DPW, they are the ones that would be automatically credited/blamed by a majority of the people who credit/blame anyone.

that is possible, im just relaying what i finally got around to reading in the BeACON.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:28 am

I received the following e-mail this morning from the CEO at Advanced Nutrients, the company responsible for the aerial advertisement:

Hi Mary

We have certainly learned more about Burning Man after expressing some of our passion at the event, by flying what many feel is a beautiful piece of artwork.

There is plenty of literature and postings available as to why the banner was originally made and what it represents.

Many of the things we do each and everyday are viewed as gifts to a vast community. This includes thousands of dollars donated to the sick and needy each year through our Cannabis Care Program, and endless donations to many other worthy causes. We are a very caring small company that works hard helping people that are all part of one universe.

It had been suggested to us that Burning Man is a free spirited place that totally embraces helping and supporting each other and highly encourages everyone to express themselves through a unique art form. However, we were totally unaware of one of the guiding rules advertised on websites about labels prior to expressing ourselves the way we did.

We now understand this and have other ways to help serve the community of Burning Man, without the labels or offending a single person in the future.

Our gifts to others are typically viewed as heart felt and very generous, however this was obviously not the case with everyone who attended Burning Man.

I sincerely apologize for offending you or any one else at this year's event as that was certainly never our intention.

Rest assured our name will never appear in association with any help we offer to the BMC in the future, though many helping hands will be there for you.
warm regards
rob

Also the following:

Burning Man
Subject Line: Spectacular Burning Man Mistake
Hey- and I made a spectacular mistake and Iâ€™m sorry.
Itâ€™s not very often I have to write a letter like this. At Burning Man this year I made a decision to fly the Advanced Nutrients Bud Banner.
It was a mistake to do it and I humbly apologize for that. The last thing I wanted to do was interfere with the vibe that was happening there.
As CEO of Advanced Nutrients I take full responsibility and the decision to fly the banner at Burning Man lays squarely on my shoulders alone.
In 1986 when Larry Harvey and Jerry James burned a wooden man and small wooden dog on the beach in San Francisco. Harvey described his reason for burning the effigies as an â€œact of radical self expression.â€

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:32 am

That doesnt seem like much of an apology to me. In fact, it seems to say, "You are trying to stifle our creativity by not letting us fly advertisements over your event". I really hope that all of you growers out there who attend BM have now decided that this company is not someone you will deal with.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:05 am

Yup - I appreciate the "deeply and humbly apologize" part, but these letters leave a very bad taste in my mouth (pun intended). I'm interested in what the general consensus is among us before I respond.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:16 am

I can see enthusiasm with an idea taking over.
But it seems odd to me not to research better, even to the extent of asking a burner if this was the best approach.
It was surely an expensive thing to do.

In another area, if I had been asked, I would have advised against the press release used by loa, even if they had been determined to release the information.
There are better approaches.

And then there is the fact that Cera is currently the dominant electrolyte out there...

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:42 am

BitterDan wrote:That doesnt seem like much of an apology to me. In fact, it seems to say, "You are trying to stifle our creativity by not letting us fly advertisements over your event". I really hope that all of you growers out there who attend BM have now decided that this company is not someone you will deal with.

Hmm. I wonder how you came to that conclusion? I have re read this email many times, and it seems really sincere; he specifically says he made a mistake, and that his mistake was a product of not seeing or understanding the rules as posted on the web (sort of like running a stop sign that is obvious. I have done that, and was sincerely shocked and sorry i did that.) Specifically, I do not see from where you have drawn your conclusion regarding stifling creativity. Have I misread something?

I have never heard of this organization before, and frankly, I am not very 420 friendly because of the egregious damage being done to this nation's open space and forest lands, particularly here in CA. I don't have an ax to grind regarding this organization, since I will assume they know where their weed is grown and can document the entire chain.

I am just curious and wondering if I am not getting something really obvious here.

Artemis · Post by **Artemis** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:40 pm

I read it the same way Chief DanFox, not sure why others didn't see this as an apology. The first message (rob's) may have seemed a bit like a defensive apology but the CEO's one seemed valid to me. I don't see why we should boycott them (not that they I knowingly buy their product anyway).

Risky · Post by **Risky** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:47 pm

Only the kind are able to leave room for apologies.
Your acceptance of their apology says more about you than it does them.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:47 pm

As clueless, self-serving & unrepentant as any apology coming from your average politician CEO hippie.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:52 pm

Yes, Virginia, there is a bbcode option for 'strikethrough'.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:05 pm

Bob wrote:Yes, Virginia, there is a bbcode option for 'strikethrough'.

well.........?.............

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:12 pm

Well, if b.../b adds bolding, take a wild guess.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:52 pm

Bob wrote:Well, if b.../b adds bolding, take a wild guess.

nothin' better than a smart ass, cryptic couch.......hahahaha

I'll start guessing and trying it

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:02 pm

I dunno about the letters. I'll accept that it was an honest mistake, but I think if they want to try and cast it as some sort of creative expression then 'Big, Sugary Buds' is a lousy slogan. That says "PARTY!" not "social change" to me. If I need to be part of the Northern California Medical Marijuana activist scene to understand the social message behind "Big, Sugary Buds" then I seriously doubt the validity (or even existence) of that social message. Same thing applies here that applies in most of the 'Help' threads. READ THE SURVIVAL GUIDE!

I am going to continue to stick by my argument that these things are not intended for burners. Advanced Nutrients, Ola Loa (nutrient drinks), and Voxbone (cell phones) all issued press releases before the event. Burning Man is no longer an underground event; I had a relative who assumed I was out of town because they saw something about Burning Man on the news. In their press release Voxbone makes it quite clear that they intend the event to be a proving ground/showcase for their product, and it is a product that I would applaud under other circumstances. The increasing visibility of Burning Man has made it part of the public discourse, for better or worse.

Press Releases:
Ola Loa http://www.cnbc.com/id/32626011

Voxbone http://bit.ly/195qC4

Advanced Nutrients http://bit.ly/2KmFB (oops, issued during the event. Only adding to my argument that burners are not the intended audience.)

POWERCHAIR · Post by **POWERCHAIR** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:15 pm

.......

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:19 pm

At this point I think the BM Senior Staff should do their thing and handle this.

POWERCHAIR · Post by **POWERCHAIR** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:41 pm

.........

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:54 pm

I'm digging through over 4000+ images and seeing if I can find that damn helicopter...what I have you can't see the tail number in them...damn the luck.
As for the rest I think the CEO has heard enough from the hoi polloi so beyond answering the call of the JRS...let the Sr. Staff do their thing.

Edit: Bob, forgive me for cross linking but your image says it all:

Bob wrote:

DGMedic · Post by **DGMedic** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:42 pm

Okay folks now you get to the nitty gritty... so heres the fuzz on the Hot Topic sign... It was a prank as someone already posted by the bunny camp and yes one of our members is a manager for hot topic. We liked it so much that we left it up. A burner passed by climber up and tried to take it down saying we had gone "commercialized." So now you know.
Hit me up at thunder dome 2010 ask for junior if you want to chat ect ect...

-Thunderdome medic 07,08,09.

brcprincess · Post by **brcprincess** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:07 am

DGMedic wrote:Okay folks now you get to the nitty gritty... so heres the fuzz on the Hot Topic sign... It was a prank as someone already posted by the bunny camp and yes one of our members is a manager for hot topic. We liked it so much that we left it up. A burner passed by climber up and tried to take it down saying we had gone "commercialized." So now you know.

-Thunderdome medic 07,08,09.

If you like the Hot Topic banner so much, then I suggest that you hang it inside your tent or RV next time.

I doubt many people at BM share your humor or love of the banner, in fact everyone I've spoken to was offended and outraged by what you did.

We work hard to keep our community free of advertising and commercialism and your "prank" violated that.

Please keep in mind the principles next time:

Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.

Even if you didn't intend it to read as advertising and meant it in an ironic sense, that was your "in joke".

Ultimately it still read as advertising to the rest of us.

So now you know.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:29 am

brcprincess wrote:I doubt many people at BM share your humor or love of the banner, in fact everyone I've spoken to was offended and outraged by what you did.

really? thats interesting, just about everyone i have talked with absolutely loved the prank, and they understood it clearly.

We work hard to keep our community free of advertising and commercialism and your "prank" violated that.

well i hope you have let the org know how you feel about center camp cafe, the promotional opportunity of the green tech companies, and the official burningman merchandise available for purchase fom the website.

Fire_Moose · Post by **Fire_Moose** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:03 am

i didn't go this last year but when that picture came out of the Hot Topic banner on the Thunderdome I thought it was priceless....very VERY funny. Then the rumors that DPW did it were even better.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:59 am

Ha! I didn't even know what "Hot Topic" was. I figured it was some cable panel show, like "The View." (I barely know what that is, but whatever.) Only through reading this thread did it gradually occur to me that my supposition was wrong. (Hey, sometimes it take me years to figure something like that. Decades even.) I went into one two days ago in the City Centre (pronounced "Sentra") Mall in DT SF. Now I know that it's a loud place with lots of black, not very cleaver tee-shirts and more crappy merchandise in a place where I can't visit because there's too much clutter in front of the elevator. One more playa mystery solved.

brcprincess · Post by **brcprincess** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:25 pm

The Thunderdome banner:

Another example of a Hot Topic Banner - for those of you who thought that the banner was something created by the camp for the Thunderdome, it wasn't. Hot Topic is a clothing line.

At the end of the day, the Hot Topic banner is commercial advertising material. Hanging it at Burning Man violated one of our Principles.

It doesn't matter if everyone if your camp thought hanging the Hot Topic banner was the most ironic, hilarious, clever, irreverant act ever.

It still violated one of Burning Man's principles. If you want to be part of our community, please respect them.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:05 pm

did you contact the org yet about center camp cafe, green tech company promos, and burningman website merchandise?

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:19 pm

I passed by it and though... " hu, this Hot Topic place looks ALOT like Thunderdome ". and kept peddling till I found some fire.

carnivillain · Post by **carnivillain** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:47 pm

brcprincess wrote:The Thunderdome banner:

At the end of the day, the Hot Topic banner is commercial advertising material. Hanging it at Burning Man violated one of our Principles.

It doesn't matter if everyone if your camp thought hanging the Hot Topic banner was the most ironic, hilarious, clever, irreverant act ever.

It still violated one of Burning Man's principles. If you want to be part of our community, please respect them.

BRCPrincess --

As the photographer of the image you posted, and the guy who was woken up after but an hour of sleep by the pranksters themselves to get said photo (before Deathguild got wind of it as we assumed they'd take it down), please allow me to politely ask you to cut the self-righteous crap.

It was a prank. It was funny, whether or not you thought it such. It got picked up by Laughing Squid; my flickr page has a long list of comments expressing perceived hilarity.

Please see for yourself.

The team of pranksters (10) were made up of people from many different groups, including the DPW, and have done more to contribute to Burning Man -- from building the Man to setting up the city to huge art projects to writing for the Burning Man blog -- than I'm guessing you have. So take a deep breath, a shot of whiskey, and have a laugh. No one went out and bought Hot Topic clothes after seeing the banner: the whole point was we were making fun of Death Guild with Hot Topic, which would imply we (and others) perceive it as uncool. Right? Ok.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:03 pm

evil carnival worker wrote: -- from building the Man to setting up the city to huge art projects to writing for the Burning Man blog -- than I'm guessing you have.

have a small bit of unease with that sense of entitlement. nobody can claim greater rights or privelage because thier form of contributions are somehow better than everyone elses.

carnivillain · Post by **carnivillain** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:09 pm

spectabillis wrote:
evil carnival worker wrote: -- from building the Man to setting up the city to huge art projects to writing for the Burning Man blog -- than I'm guessing you have.
have a small bit of unease with that sense of entitlement. nobody can claim greater rights or privelage because thier form of contributions are somehow better than everyone elses.

I'm not saying they were my contributions, nor that they somehow have a license to do whatever they want because of them; my point being, rather, that the motivations for their actions should be viewed from the standpoint that they have heavily contributed and are some of the foundations -of- the community.

I mostly took umbrage at the statement "if you want to be part of our community" that BRCPrincess made. Please pardon any rudeness on my part, but statements like that make me gag -- especially knowing who was responsible and why they did it (short answer: hilarity).

brcprincess · Post by **brcprincess** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:17 pm

carnivillain wrote: The team of pranksters (10) were made up of people from many different groups, including the DPW, and have done more to contribute to Burning Man -- from building the Man to setting up the city to huge art projects to writing for the Burning Man blog -- than I'm guessing you have.

You seem to think that your many "contributions" entitle you to ignore the Principles.

They don't.

carnivillain wrote: please allow me to politely ask you to cut the self-righteous crap.

You are the one coming off as self righteous blowing your horn about your many "contributions".

Hot Topic at Thunderdome? Sugary buds?

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