Rest In Peace Kurt Cobain

angrykittie25 · Post by **angrykittie25** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:20 pm

First off I think that dangermouse was a bit rude by posting what he said in a post that was meant as a eulogy, however this is a public forum and he has a right to post his opinions just like the rest of us, no matter who they offend. I also think that kelly went too far in her retaliation.
Now on the topic of suicide I can only speak from my own experience. I have been diagnosed as having severe chronic depression. I was once suicidal and had attempted it a few times, but with no success (I am thankful for that now). In those dark years of my life I didn't feel that I was going to inflict horrible sadness on those who I had left behind. Rather I thought that their lives would be better after I was gone. Everyone around me had been trying to hard to help me for so many years with no avail that I thought that by me killing myself that I was ending all of our pain. I thought that atleast they would have the peace of mind knowing that I was no longer hurting and they could move on with their lives. I do not believe that people that commit suicide go to any sort of hell, so I would be at peace it whatever came after death. I did not have a child at that point in my life so I had no responsibility to anyone other than myself. I now have a beautiful 14 month old daughter and I believe that she is the one who saved my life. She gave me meaning and made life worth living and I am thankful for every day I have with her. I do not look down on people who commit suicide whether or not they have children. When you are in a frame of mind that you could ever even think of commiting suicide, you are so focused on the agony and pain that you are enduring and that you have cause your friends and family by making them stand by helpless as you lose all hope, that you truely believe that they would be better off without you. No one really knows what a suicidal person feels like unless they have walked that line themselves, some stepped back and others jumped over.
Well there is my two cents.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:45 am

I don't see Kelly's post as "retaliation", I see it as an emotional reaction. The comments hurt, and she responded. Granted it wasn't pretty, but I've done the same thing on this very board, that's my take on why she wrote what she did.

As for Black Rock Rick....your words make me recoil in disgust.

I was one of those who cried when I learned Kurt was gone. And I've been down the same dark path...take Bob's picture, substitute another bridge, and I've been there. AG's comments are worth reading again; so many people just don't understand.

People are going to continue dogpiling on Kelly but as I've posted elsewhere, I feel like I understand where she was coming from and if I can say something to support her I will and plan to continue doing so.

And it's hard to believe it's been 10 long years.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:01 am

Black Rock Ric wrote:Suicide is the ultimate,"look at me, I hurt so much!" cop out.

Consider some problems with certain mental illnesses like schizophrenia: hallucinations, delusions, chronic fear, constant emotional pain, and insanity. If a person has a choice to continue living under those conditions most would not. A rational person would seek help, but that's part of the problem, when suffering from insanity you are never in a rational state of mind. Forced intervention can be crucial, but once again contact with people is severely limited as part of the mental condition. Intervention is still a legally vague area due to personal freedom laws that oppose the efforts of protecting a person from doing harm to themselves.

Clinically speaking from most research to date, the circumstances of suicide are not viewed as a choice by the suffering person, but an irrational decision made in a percieved hostile environment. Consequences of the decision have little importance or may never be considered.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:41 am

Ultimately it is a weakness. Suicides are doing the gene pool a favor, if they do it before they have children. If one lives in chronic physical pain, I can see it.. if all alternatives are exhausted. Beats living in extended care in a hospital. (See John Wayne in the Shootist) Most of our Mental Illnesses are the rats in an overcrowded cage routine. Nevada has the highest rate of suicide per capita in the Nation (Last time I checked the stats) One would think with all that country to wander in it must drive them crazy, but the suicides in Nevada are typically linked to alcoholism and gambling.. and occur mostly in Las Vegas. I have assisted in a number of body recoveries, "clients" who decided they did not want to spend more time in the can. Life would be better for law enforcement if suicides thought about it a bit more. Bought a body bag, got in it.. zipped it.. it is a real drag to bag up a pill popper that has laid in bed for two weeks before being found. Or as in the case of Cobain,, he made a big mess, completely inconsiderate..

I have written a long poem regarding a suicide.. at the end of a long life,, dying of cancer, hobbling to a hollow tree at the headwaters of the Big Sur River. To write it I followed the path of my character,, from the mouth of the river to the headwaters, found a suitable tree.. My character was old enough that his parents were dead, his estranged son was an insurance agent in a large city, great disappointment to his father.

Look, one of you readers may be suffering from depression. Suicide may be in your thoughts. Here is what you do. Zoloft works, course it kills off your sex drive. Get a puppy.. nothing like caring for another carbon
based life form to get your mind off yourself. Dogs will give you unconditinal love, unlike llamas which don't really care about you. GET THE HELL OUT OF THE CITY!! Dang they are depressing places. Don't watch TV. Move to the country, grow stuff, raise stuff, Jefferson was
right.. Stay off the liquour.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:53 am

Deteriorata

Go placidly amid the noise & waste, & remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. Avoid quiet & passive persons unless you are in need of sleep. Rotate your tires. Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself and heed well their advice even though they be turkeys; know what to kiss and when. Consider that two wrongs never make a right but that three do. Wherever possible, put people on hold. Be comforted that in the face of all aridity & disillusionment and despite the changing fortunes of time, there will always be a big future in computer maintenance. Remember the Pueblo. Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, & mutilate. Know yourself; if you need help, call the FBI. Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons closest to you. That lemon on your left, for instance. Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet. Fall not in love therefore; it will stick to your face. Gracefully surrender the things of youth, birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan; and let not the sands of time get in your lunch. Hire people with hooks. For a good time, call 606-4311; ask for Ken. Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese; and reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only be worse in Milwaukee. You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here, and whether you can hear it or not, the universe is laughing behind your back. Therefore make peace with your God whatever you conceive Him to be: Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin. With all its hopes, dreams, promises & urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate. Give up.

By Tony Hendra - 1972

drowned_saved · Post by **drowned_saved** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:42 am

Dear Ric,

You seem like an interesting guy. I'd like to get to know you better. Maybe the two of us could meet at Thunderdome?

Nothing like a good exchange of viewpoints, eh?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:29 am

BRR,

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

anecdote is not equal to data (an oldie but a goodie).

that goes for all of you who think you know the mind of someone driven to such extremes. I suggest you STFU and go research bi-polar disorder for a little while. Ever heard of a fucking chemical imbalance? Brought it on themselves, yeah. Ever heard of organic causes for mental illness?

FWIW I did not think cobain was any kind of rock god.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:31 am

Black Rock Ric,

Your posts on suicide and depression give the impression that you have the sympathy, knowledge, compassion and understanding of someone who goes to a person suffering from multiple compound factures and tells them to "Shut up, stick the bones back in your leg, get back to work, quit crying for attention, and hurry up while you're at it! Don't bleed on anything and quit making problems for others, ya worthless POS."

If you don't feel that way, then you might want to rephrase yourself--however it seems like you are showing a depth of loathing and hatred you have for other people that in and of itself maybe pathological.

If you wish to be cruel and hurtful, then take someplace else.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:42 am

BRR - why do you post here? I thought you were finished with your... little science experiment or whatever the hell that was.

As far as I can tell you are only here to to be disagreeable. To have a place to be an asshole where there are no repercussions. Is it a hobby? A (sad, pathetic, *weak*) pathological need? You aren't apparently a part of the community, nor interested in becoming a part of it.

I gotta say you show all the signs of being the sort of person I'd chew my own leg off to get away from at parties. Unfortunately you can exist in every room at once at *this* particular party. I just for the life of me can't figure out why you'd want to.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:56 am

Everybody has an opinion, and frankly, I find the reactionary opinionating on all sides here no more comforting than Sunne McPeak's. I suppose she'll now be pushing for new regs prohibiting swarthy Mediterranean types from brandishing sharp metal objects on public conveyances... oh, we already have that...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:10 am

Stuart and Zane I had an interesting time in Vietnam. Since I came back I have plumbed the depths, I doubt there is a human with a better first hand experience at Depression and the treatment of depression than I (why do think I am out in the middle of the desert) , the contemplation of suicide and I are very old friends... But way down in the depths I always knew the sun comes up tomorrow. It does.. I have no sympathy for those who give in, it is pure selfishness, few of us leave no one behind. A suicide is a mean thing to do to those who are left.. My younger brother died suddenly two months ago, watching my mother go through what she went through made me realize that my suicide would have been a horrendous thing for her to have to live with. Pretty much all suicides have a mother, a father, brothers, sisters, lovers... To inflict that misery on someone is the true definition of an asshole.. Lydia, there are plenty of people who would love to chew their (or my) arm off when they are found by me... Luckily for them it is just a rhetorical statement... Darwin wins in the end.

DangerMouse · Post by **DangerMouse** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:12 am

Bob wrote:sharp metal objects

You forgot blunt objects as well...

angrykittie25 · Post by **angrykittie25** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:22 am

Tancorix wrote:I don't see Kelly's post as "retaliation", I see it as an emotional reaction

I that I used poor word choice in my earlier post and you are right. For some reason I couldn't come up with the wording. But I still think that it was an overreaction.

Black Rock Ric wrote:Look, one of you readers may be suffering from depression. Suicide may be in your thoughts. Here is what you do. Zoloft works, course it kills off your sex drive.

There is no universal pill that makes everyone normal or feel better. There are hundreds of medications out there and there may be only one that can help an individual with their problem. When you go to seek profesional help they basically tell you that they are going to try you on a certain medication and if that one doesn't work they will keep trying, they told me that it may take years to find the one that works for me. After 16 different medications and just about ever horrible side effect you can think of, I gave up and decided not to subject myself be being their guinea pig. If there were one pill that would make everyone better, I am sure there would be alot more mentally healthy people in this world.

Black Rock Ric wrote:If one lives in chronic physical pain, I can see it.. if all alternatives are exhausted. Beats living in extended care in a hospital.

You obviously don't understand severe depression because sometimes, in my case most times, worse than physical pain because you can't define it, you can't tell where its comming from or why it hurts so bad. Atleast physical pain comes with some answers, like what's causing it.
My father is in pain all of the time, he has been on every pain medicine and grown immune to them. He is now on methadone because that is the only thing that can manage his pain, but he would still rather be in his physical pain, than the emotional pain that I felt for all those years.
Stuart thank you for your post mentioning bi-polar. If this thread continues on mental illness I will most likely post on that subject at a later time as I am diagnosed with that as well.
Black Rock Ric, I was wondering...when you were suicidal were you thinking about how your mother would feel if you went through with it? Did you have a clear enough mind to think of the consequences, because most cannot when they lose hope and wish to die.
I would also like to say that I was never a big nirvana fan, but I can still understand how upset some of you feel.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:24 am

Once again Ric you believe that your experience is the end all testament on the subject. If you would have read (and understood) my post you might have got the point that many types of mental illness have nothing to do with what you may or may not have experienced in life. In your self centered (suprise) response you are referring you your PTS. Again with the I I I I I I I I I. This has nothing to due with organic causes of acute depression. Clearly, if you did not off yourself, then you have not been to the depths that others have. But from your brief history here I would never expect empathy and understanding to overpower egocentrism.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:28 am

I am pretty amazed that I have actually participated in this thread relatively unscathed.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:40 am

Black Rock Ric wrote:Stuart and Zane I had an interesting time in Vietnam. Since I came back I have plumbed the depths, I doubt there is a human with a better first hand experience at Depression and the treatment of depression than I (why do think I am out in the middle of the desert) , the contemplation of suicide and I are very old friends... But way down in the depths I always knew the sun comes up tomorrow. It does.. I have no sympathy for those who give in, it is pure selfishness, few of us leave no one behind. A suicide is a mean thing to do to those who are left.. My younger brother died suddenly two months ago, watching my mother go through what she went through made me realize that my suicide would have been a horrendous thing for her to have to live with. Pretty much all suicides have a mother, a father, brothers, sisters, lovers... To inflict that misery on someone is the true definition of an asshole.. Lydia, there are plenty of people who would love to chew their (or my) arm off when they are found by me... Luckily for them it is just a rhetorical statement... Darwin wins in the end.

Your lack of compassion is even more remarkable in light of your experiences. A degree of hardness is needed to survive, let alone continue on, and is something we agree on. I do not agree when hardness/toughness turns into contempt for others. It sucks what you went through. However, whatever happened to you does nothing to allow you to minimize or qualify the pain of others. I still feel compassion towards you even though I strongly disagree with your callous regard for the pain of others.

Cleaning up the pieces (literally and metaphorically) after someone's blown their brains out (or done something equally as sticky) is a singular experience that will scar whomever it is that has to do it. Anger at the person who caused the mess is understandable, but it's only part of dealing with the pain (as I'm sure you've heard before, ad naseaum). That kind of pain is like eating yourself to keep from starving--it maybe satisfying at first, but eventually you're going to get to something that'll do you in if you don't stop. Not to mention it's hard to do sutures with one hand.

Do what you will with your anger and hatred, but lashing out at other people's mourning is not going to help you find what you need.

Post by **actiongrl** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:29 pm

>Their lives were truly miserable. For us to think we have it rough is just our over active imaginations.

Actually, aside from the pain of depression and the shyness that caused Kurt to rather disdain his fame, he suffered from nonspecific chronic stomach pain from the time he was very young. Sounds kinda horrid to me. I almost killed myself in 1997; I'm of course thrilled that I didn't, but I definitely understand the irrational mindspace that surrounds such an act.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:54 pm

I hold no more contempt for suicides or potential suicides than I do for urban dwellers..

That can be read two ways, you get to choose..

George Mallory who died on Everest in 1924, stated, "To Suffer is to Understand, Never one without the other," some other famous person said, "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation" When the ultimate fate of all of us is Death one wouldhave to be an idiot to be an optimist. But, given free will, and given the power of the will, we can contest our fate to the ulitimate end. It provides some meaning to our lives. Those who choose to bail out before the end,,, I have no sympathy for them , that does not mean I have contempt for them.. Racing along the edge of death without going over the edge is rather fun.

III · Post by **III** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:01 pm

>>contempt

you realize that for your contempt to actually be worth anything, we'd have to care about your opinion, right?

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:32 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:When the ultimate fate of all of us is Death one wouldhave to be an idiot to be an optimist. But, given free will, and given the power of the will, we can contest our fate to the ulitimate end. It provides some meaning to our lives. Those who choose to bail out before the end,,, I have no sympathy for them , that does not mean I have contempt for them.

I think I see your point, however having no compassion for someone in pain is very close to being in a state of contempt. It just seems to be a very harsh way to go about viewing life--especially when you don't have to.

Life's hard enough as it is, no point making it more painful than has to be.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:55 pm

> Most men lead lives of quiet desperation

Henry David Thoreau.

Full quote:

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:00 pm

iIi I care? You must have me confused with someone else..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:06 pm

Zane, I like harsh, I like the purity of harsh dessicated desert, life, thoughts, psyche. The heat, the clarity, the stark beauty of life reduced to its simplest terms. Life exists by constant struggle, doomed in the end

Unlike the moss and spiderweb infested dampness of the coast. The needless complexity of the damp soul. Still doomed.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:21 pm

How about the needless simplicity of a stunted life?

hunter42 · Post by **hunter42** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:47 pm

I think the way his life turned out was from where he grew up which was Aberdeen Wa. My wife grew up there and it's the arm pit of the world.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:44 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:Stuart and Zane I had an interesting time in Vietnam. Since I came back I have plumbed the depths, I doubt there is a human with a better first hand experience at Depression and the treatment of depression than I (why do think I am out in the middle of the desert)

The examples that I previously stated were generalizations, which are only convenient frames of reference for the purpose of forum discussion. There may be similarities between the generalizations and specific cases, but the majority of mental illness cases are varied, can be uniquely distinct, and very complex. This would apply to your experience; it is not necessarily shared among many others.
I do feel compassion for your condition, but relating your experience to others on the basis of a severity judgement is a limited understanding not only in measurement of mental distress, but also discounts the many factors of causes and symptoms. To believe that your condition warrants expertise in this subject matter is dangerously incomplete, for example the highest ranked problems among psychologists and psychotherapists is projection.

Black Rock Ric wrote: But way down in the depths I always knew the sun comes up tomorrow. It does..

Obviously many mentally ill people never have this perception, and it is very fortunate that you had and still do. This is another example of the difference between yourself and many others.

Black Rock Ric wrote: Luckily for them it is just a rhetorical statement... Darwin wins in the end.

I think most will agree that countries with advanced standards of living have mitigated most Darwinist influences. For example, if you had children and your daughter suffered from childhood diabetes, I hope you would not hold the "survival of the fittest" attitude and bar her from insulin treatment.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:24 am

Your points are well taken.. Curiously,, mental illness is common in the great state of Nevada. Those we would consider the "walking wounded" they live in trailers up side canyons, they live in the small towns scattered through the landscape, they work in mines, by and large. Because of this, there are some rules about back roads travel in Nevada, #1 is don't go to those trailers up the side canyons, if you are talking with someone and something seems a bit off, leave. Don't ask questions about backgrounds, where someone is from or where they are going. If I need to talk to someone who lives up some canyon in a trailer, I make a lot of noise from far away, letting him know I am coming.. That includes coming up my side canyon if you are visitor.. I keep a locked gate... Usually best not to try to pass it.
To take your point the opposite direction... What is not mentally ill? You describe people that by and large should be housed and cared for. My lack of sympathy and indifference is directed at those who function in society, but weep at how difficult it is for them, not those who are out of it. My wife is a consultant for the State of Nevada on Autism.. The population she works with is tragic, in my opinion, children, some of whom cannot concieve of television, even when it is on in front of them,, etc.. My area of expertise, although I am semi retired from it (easier and more money doing what I do) is the highly gifted, among whom are both the Bill Gates's and the Ted Kycynskis's of this world. The people among whom I make my daily bread,, actually my one week out of the month, are usually mentally unbalanced, really stupid, neurotic and or psychotic, usually because of alchoholism/drugs. It is these people, the dreggs of society, that help me with my jaundiced view of lack of personal responsibility, it is never their fault for what they do..

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:58 pm

Something from the New York Times... and yeah, it is political too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 8, 2004
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
When the Edge Moved to the Middle
By THURSTON MOORE

The boy looked just like Kurt Cobain. He was no more than 19. Same yellow hanging hair, fallow blue eyes, the sad square jaw, innocent and adult.

We were in a Brooklyn basement full of artists and sound-poets gathered to watch musicians throw down extreme noise improvisation. One performer played records with two customized tone arms on his turntable; the discs broke and scratched, creating shards of hyperfractured beat play. He was followed by a quartet of young women scraping metal files across amplified coils mixed through junk electronics. I was to perform a spontaneous guitar/amp feedback piece with a stand-up bass player on loan from his teaching post at Berklee College of Music and a free jazz percussionist who had traversed through New York's downtown underground in the 60's. Not your typical night of alternative rock.

And I had a feeling this kid was looking for alternative rock. It was the year 2000. Kurt had died six years earlier, and through whatever fleeting friendship I had with him, this ethereal look-alike saw me as some connection.

Before being labeled alternative rock, Sonic Youth, the band I started in 1980 (and continue in still!), was called "post-punk." By the early 90's, we existed as a sort of big brother (and big sister) group to Kurt's generation of underground America. When Nirvana became popular, we were all called alternative rock — a less threatening term than anything with punk in the title (though with Green Day and Blink 182 in the late 90's, punk ultimately became accessible and extremely profitable — at least for the new MTV punks). The original alternative rock bands — Nirvana and Sonic Youth included — never had any allegiance to alternative rock. We all had come too far and through too much for any professional advice toward stylistic adjustment.

Kurt was not enamored with new traditionalism. He was more attached to the avant-garde rock of his hometown pals, the Melvins, who continue to stretch the parameters of what rock music can be. The traditional aspects of Nirvana's music — aspects that lent it accessibility — were expressed through Kurt as if they were experimental gestures. (The Beatles, also grand pop experimentalists, were loudly whispered by Nirvana as a primary influence, something unusual for punk devotees.) These elements were an important part of Nirvana's appeal. But what is transcendent about Kurt's art — what today, 10 years after his death, gives him rock immortality — was his voice and performance ability, both of which exuded otherworldly soulful beauty.

The initial popularity of alternative rock was in conflict with punk culture, which has a history of denouncing commercial success. Nirvana's second album, "Nevermind," along with the success of the Lollapalooza tours, changed the game. Both announced the discovery of an unaccounted-for demographic, cynical and amused by the pop rebellion displayed by new wave (Duran Duran) and hair-metal (Guns N' Roses). This newly discovered audience, one that surged well beyond the punk elite to the greater population of alienated and dislocated youth, was all at once represented by Kurt.

Kurt was aware of his sudden high profile and how it could be perceived as uncool in the punk scene. He made snotty comments about the fresh-minted alternative rock acts being touted by MTV. We all did. At the request of The New York Times, Nirvana's first record label, Seattle's Sub Pop, created a mock lexicon of "grunge" culture. Remarkably, the news media ran with it — to our disbelief and delight.

In the face of success, Kurt seemed to feel the need to maintain this stump position of punk rock credibility. Save the mainstream acceptance of the relatively straight-ahead pop of R.E.M. — which Kurt loved as much as hard-core thrash — there really was no model for such success from our community. He told Flipside, the iconic Los Angeles punk rock fanzine, that he hoped the next Nirvana album would vanquish their affiliation with the "lamestream." He recounted being taken aback by an audience member who grabbed him and advised him to, "Just go for it, man." I remember smiling at this, as it was how most of us felt. We didn't perceive Nirvana's status as lame. It was cool.

After all, the kids chose "Nevermind." Geffen Records, the band's label at the time, had no real plans for it, hoping for modest sales. Rolling Stone gave it a lukewarm review. Its subsequent off-the-map success was wonderful, fantastic and completely genuine. What was disingenuous and annoyingly misrepresentative was the reaction of the corporate music industry. The alternative rock phenomenon was a youth culture hit and it made stars out of select artists but, for the most part, it was a bunch of corn to the creative scene where Kurt came from.

Nirvana made a point of touring with challenging groups like the Boredoms, the Butthole Surfers and the Meat Puppets and presenting them to a huge audience — one that was largely unaware of those bands' influence. But only the Meat Puppets would click a little bit. Without MTV or radio support, no one was likely to reach Nirvana's peak.

When Kurt died, a lot of the capitalized froth of alternative rock fizzled. Mainstream rock lost its kingpin group, an unlikely one imbued with avant-garde genius, and contemporary rock became harder and meaner, more aggressive and dumbed down and sexist. Rage and aggression were elements for Kurt to play with as an artist, but he was profoundly gentle and intelligent. He was sincere in his distaste for bullyboy music — always pronouncing his love for queer culture, feminism and the punk rock do-it-yourself ideal. Most people who adapt punk as a lifestyle represent these ideals, but with one of the finest rock voices ever heard, Kurt got to represent them to an attentive world. Whatever contact he made was really his most valued success.

You wouldn't know it now by looking at MTV, with its scorn-metal buffoons and Disney-damaged pop idols, but the underground scene Kurt came from is more creative and exciting than it's ever been. From radical pop to sensorial noise-action to the subterranean forays in drone-folk-psyche-improv, all the music Kurt adored is very much alive and being played by amazing artists he didn't live to see, artists who recognize Kurt as a significant and honorable muse.

The kid who looked like him sat next to me in the basement where we were playing and I knew he was going to ask me about Kurt. This happens a lot. What was Kurt like? Was he a good guy? Simple things. He asked me if I thought Kurt would've liked this total outsider music we were hearing. I laughed, realizing the kid was slightly bewildered by it all, and I answered emphatically, "Yeah, Kurt would have loved this."

Thurston Moore is a member of the band Sonic Youth.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:22 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:Those we would consider the "walking wounded" they live in trailers up side canyons, they live in the small towns scattered through the landscape, they work in mines, by and large.

It's definately not restricted to Nevada, by any means. Any desert town with less than 5,000 people and farther than 60 miles from any town bigger than 15,000. Go out to the edges of town or head to the hills and look for individual habitats. If it wasn't a meth lab, heroin hidey habitat, or biker hangout- then the place was generally inhabited by one of a large variety of loopy mother fuckers. As for the weaponry, everyone I knew in the desert had at least a rifle and handgun. We would often go out plinking when we were bored and think nothing of it. The REALLY dangerous fuckers had dynamite or beyond. One of the most common traits of these people is paranoia, but anything else could be riding alongside.

See above for "reasons Rob moved the fuck out of the desert". Beyond the sterile landscape and lack of culture.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:27 pm

Does anyone hear that all familiar sound of thread drift?

Rest In Peace Kurt Cobain

Re: Suicide

s

Deteriorata

Stuart and Zane

Re: Stuart and Zane

s

Re: s

3

Zane

Aberdeen

Black Rock Ric was Re: Stuart and Zane

h

Re: h