accessible Burning Man?

[theCryptofishist]

Shambala
I'm sorry you feel let down by me. And I pretty much don't knwo what to say about it.
I don't know if you are among the large group who help in order to control (whether it's to control the uncomfortable feelings or simply the awkward person.) If you truly wish to help, then you will see the anger MaryLou and I are expressing as a real outcome of our experiences of/with wheelers, and you will use that, in time, as a guide to building your MV.
Our lives, as much as any others, are complicated.
Fishy

[Sham]

No good deed goes unpunished!

[gyre]

A bird in the hand gathers no moss.

[MaryLou]

http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchai ... 57351.html

I considered these but the extra reach would be too much and he would lose independence. They would make the caregiver's job easier though.

I don't see dimensions.
Are they farther away or a different diameter than normal?

They sure look like they would work, but they may make the Surly wheels look like a bargain.

they might be a bit bigger diameter - they are 4" wide. absolutly no traction though.

cost is covered by workmans comp (thank all the Gods)

Shambala - you get bonus points for even considering making changes to help the handicapped.

[gyre]

Why no traction?
They have a lot of surface area.

Why were you saying they would be harder to operate?

[MaryLou]

the fatso tire has a lot of surface but they are slick like an inner tube. fine for moving across a level surface if you take it slow, but if you try to go fast they'll just spin and slip in place 'cause there's no grab. same effect if you run into rough terrain.

because of the extra width the operator has to reach farther to grip the rims, putting extra strain on the back, shoulders, and arms.

ronness doesn't have much energy to start with and using fatsos would wear him out quick. his nubbies and big front wheels will get him part of the way, the walker will get him the rest of the way, and the caregiver will help out where necessary.

[gyre]

Have your tried these?
Traction actually comes from the grip of the rubber, not the voids in the tread, which is primarily for rain, and some odd offroad conditions.
On dry asphalt, slick tires actually grip far better than rain tires.
The grip will depend on the softness of the material, which is why some tires radically out perform others.
New tires often require some wear to gain maximum grip, if the casting is too slick.
They can be prepped by sanding too.


I thought the grips were n the inside of the wheel, so they would be in the same place, and the tire would extend further out?

[Captain Goddammit]

Really? The DMV or BMorg will let people with handicapped placards just drive around in regular cars? Wow... I hadn't heard about that nor seen it in action. I think I should quit putting so much effort into building "mutant" stuff and just bullshit my way into a handicap placard! I know a few ways to do it.
Lets just drive our cars around! Yay! This is gonna be so much easier!
Maybe I should quit going to the playa. Everybody who agrees raise your hand!

[gyre]

Is that the only reason you have a boat out there?


Gee, this is so basic to everyday life I hate to say it.
The federal government lets people with disabilities have as much access as possible.
The DMV verifies to every extent possible.
It's not a new thing.

[gyre]

Really? I think I should quit putting so much effort into building "mutant" stuff and just bullshit my way into a handicap placard! I know a few ways to do it.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides any ethical issues, this is a criminal offense.

You've driven out there.
Do you really think anyone wants to drive a regular car out there?
Give it a try, then.
It's probably exactly like driving a mutant out there.

In fact, why don't you turn your boat over to people with permits and you drive their geo or van for awhile?
Exactly the same thing, right?

[Tiahaar]

So for you who haven't plonked me for my earlier posts on this subject, I suppose I'm expected to say something here hmm?

First I'll put money on the good Captain being facetious, Gyre. He has a valid point. People will game the system, wanting easy transportation. It ain't limited to disabled...I've personally known several people who drove around all week on 'staff' permits even though they were not on duty. Its a lazyness thing.

Second, the ultimate best example I've ever seen out there of disabled person transpo was the awesome 'The Rookery' golf cart of a couple years ago. I talked with them a bit. That creation was beautiful!

[Captain Goddammit]

Really? I think I should quit putting so much effort into building "mutant" stuff and just bullshit my way into a handicap placard! I know a few ways to do it.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides any ethical issues, this is a criminal offense.

You've driven out there.
Do you really think anyone wants to drive a regular car out there?
Give it a try, then.
It's probably exactly like driving a mutant out there.

In fact, why don't you turn your boat over to people with permits and you drive their geo or van for awhile?
Exactly the same thing, right?

I didn't mean I was literally going to do that.
Yes I think a lot of people want to drive regular cars out there, and originally everyone did, until big problems surfaced.
I LOVE having other people drive the boat. I like building stuff and all, but I hate always being the driver.
The thing's got wheelchair space, and has ferried several disabled passengers, including the illustrious unjonharley, wheelchair and all... who is a disabled guy who is always working on another super low budget, home-built mutant of his own. As ugly as he is (that's a running gag between us in case everyone hasn't picked up on it) he's a perfect example of why I'm offended by other people using their placard as an excuse to drive around out there in their Prius.
So, to sum up, blow me!

[ygmir]

Really? I think I should quit putting so much effort into building "mutant" stuff and just bullshit my way into a handicap placard! I know a few ways to do it.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides any ethical issues, this is a criminal offense.

You've driven out there.
Do you really think anyone wants to drive a regular car out there?
Give it a try, then.
It's probably exactly like driving a mutant out there.

In fact, why don't you turn your boat over to people with permits and you drive their geo or van for awhile?
Exactly the same thing, right?

I didn't mean I was literally going to do that.
Yes I think a lot of people want to drive regular cars out there, and originally everyone did, until big problems surfaced.
I LOVE having other people drive the boat. I like building stuff and all, but I hate always being the driver.
The thing's got wheelchair space, and has ferried several disabled passengers, including the illustrious unjonharley, wheelchair and all... who is a disabled guy who is always working on another super low budget, home-built mutant of his own. As ugly as he is (that's a running gag between us in case everyone hasn't picked up on it) he's a perfect example of why I'm offended by other people using their placard as an excuse to drive around out there in their Prius.
So, to sum up, blow me!

well said, Capn'........

[epic_elite]

hmmm. well i too have seen full sized cars out on the open playa. i remember a mad max'd out buick roll up to the Thunderdome, and i didn't feel offended by it's presence. maybe as a result of the rarity of actual cars roming breeds tollerance. if they were everywere i may feel a bit like i was playing in traffic.

my grandpa has a dissability from his strokes that renders his right arm and left leg useless. theoretically speaking if he would wish to attend, while the heat may kill him, i think in terms of mobility, a golf cart would suit his limitations perfectly in terms of getting in and out and around the area.

i dont think i would be to offended if i saw a dissabled person get into a prius to get around the playa. esspecially if they gave other burners a ride in the nice climate controlled interrior!

[Sham]

[youtube][/youtube]

[gyre]

I didn't mean I was literally going to do that.
Yes I think a lot of people want to drive regular cars out there, and originally everyone did, until big problems surfaced.
I LOVE having other people drive the boat. I like building stuff and all, but I hate always being the driver.
The thing's got wheelchair space, and has ferried several disabled passengers, including the illustrious unjonharley, wheelchair and all... who is a disabled guy who is always working on another super low budget, home-built mutant of his own. As ugly as he is (that's a running gag between us in case everyone hasn't picked up on it) he's a perfect example of why I'm offended by other people using their placard as an excuse to drive around out there in their Prius.
So, to sum up, blow me!

Yeah, well, back at you!

I know Unjon, and you're right.
He is ugly.
I know how he has attended for years and it is impressive....and nuts.
I don't know how he's had the stamina or the desire to do what he's done out there.

But not everyone is the same, like I said.

[Captain Goddammit]

In case anyone has gotten the idea I have no sympathy or understanding of handicapped people... my mom had one leg amputated, yet still raised kids, went to med school, drove a stick, etc.
She never had a handicap placard.
My sister has MS and is wheelchair bound. She never asks for preferential treatment. She did ask me to help her "steampunk" her chair.
She wouldn't be caught dead driving her minivan around on the playa just because she's in a chair. She "gets" Burning Man. She doesn't think anyone owes her anything different.

But hey... I'm sounding like a jaded old timer who thinks it was better last year... or last decade. I think I'll just do something else, there's a big world out there!

[gyre]

And if she couldn't bring a chair with her?

This all sounds very biased and judgmental.


I met the man that led a team of blind and disabled climbers up everest.
Maybe all the blind people that don't summit everest are slackers?


Maybe how other people manage their burn is their own business?


Plenty of people think that the people bringing art cars are rich slackers creating an elitist burn.
Why should anyone with enough money have special priveleges?

[Captain Goddammit]

OK, I'll try to answer in a straight fashion, without either of us having to blow each other... I don't hate ya' but I don't like you THAT much.
While such types do exist, no one I know that builds playa mutants is "elitist" or "rich". That's half the challenge, more than half, of building cool stuff. We have to do it with scrounged parts and creative thinking rather than simply ordering whatever we need.
I've noticed for years that you frequently suggest solutions to people's questions on here with no apparent concern for budget. You have great ideas and sources of perfect stuff that would be ideal, but all way too expensive. It gives the appearance that YOUR budget is a lot higher than ours.
Most of us guys building these things are working with what we can find for free or SUPER cheap.
My truck is an '86 GMC... a nice big crewcab dually but not particularly valuable. My camper was a $1500 score. My flatbed trailer was effectively free, I bought two from a guy going out of business and sold the other for what I paid for the pair.
The Land Yacht hull was free for the hauling away. The car I ripped the motor out of was a $60 tow-auction car. Most of the parts are junkyard finds.

My story is the same as everyone I know who builds playa stuff. We're not rich elitists who toss money at Burning Man to buy privileges. We're guys working plenty hard to make cool stuff despite the hardship of limited disposable income.
Then someone wants to drive around in their car because they have a handicap placard... shit, my sister has one, I could give her the boat or hell, my Mazda Miata... or even her own minivan with wheelchair lift and we could just drive that around. It wouldn't be the criminal offense you alluded to earlier, it would be perfectly legit.

Neither of us would do that. I'd say we're less elitist. We don't want special privileges. We want to either do what it takes or sit it out.

[gyre]

It isn't my point of view, but it isn't rare either.

I could put together a mutant fairly easily.
But I can't afford to get one out there.
I can't even consider bringing my rv.
Transporting a mutant a serious distance becomes the big cost for anyone in this end of the country.

Obtaining a placard by fraud or using one fraudulently is criminal.

On the other hand, the protocols are federal or national, but the placards are state.
The state rules here are the strictest in the country, actually violating federal rules and medical protocols.
Only some people in wheelchairs qualify.
Many doctors are too intimidated to sign any government paperwork to begin with.

As for expensive suggestions, some have more money than time.
But in reference to car parts, I've learned the hard way that often the expensive way is cheaper...because it doesn't break.
But there is often a cheap way to buy the better parts, as I've suggested to you in the past.
My fast car uses a larger engine as a base.
Most buy the stock car and nickel and dime themselves to death keeping it running after it's fast.
I saved my pennies and bought the stronger engine.
Cheaper...in the long run.
The car needs restoration right now, and I can't afford it.
But when I can, that engine will still be bulletproof.
When slower cars are frantically being tuned weekly, I won't touch mine.

[MaryLou]

Ronness is a brain injured adult who is doing good to just make it through the day with no pain or confusion.

I'm a retired office maggot with NO mechanical skills.

And we don't want to just "sit it out" and we aren't staying home.

[MaryLou]

but i have designed a cool fish costume for the prius and with 80 yds of cotton spandex, 10 yds of sceening, some foam, a serger and a bunch of time and paint we will be able to swim our way around the playa in shimmering lighted splendor.

[VeganChoirGirl]

FUCK YEAH MARY LOU! You ROCK! I think it is so awesome that you are using your artistic skills to spruce up the Prius and help it blend in with the playa. More importantly, I think it's great that you are going to make the effort to get out there on the playa, even with your guys disabilities. This is SUPPOSED to be an inclusive environment, it's too bad that all you seem to be receiving are negative comments. As long as the caretaker KNOWS what they are getting into and you three go out to have an AWESOME time, I think it is a beautiful thing that you're making it out this year. It's a big place, and a couple stock cars are hardly noticed (I have seen a few, but I think people are so enthralled with the event, that they go by without fan fare).

I hope you have a wonderful time. I hope you stay strong. And I hope the playa brings joy to all three of you!

[MaryLou]

thank you thank you thank you! we're all really excited and looking forward to the adventure.