Ideal Bike-towed bar cart

[Lonesomebri]

People?

Whatever the goddess says.

[maladroit]

Godlesses

[Captain Goddammit]

Well at any rate, after hearing directly from the builder about what he's really up to, I'm a big fan and I wanna see pictures!
I

[trilobyte]

I say let your friend have at it. Part of the joy (and sometimes the agony) of the playa is that people are welcome to try all kinds of goofy stuff. I agree with you, I think a wooden-wheeled chariot would be a massive pain in the ass. It'll either be a hell of a bumpy ride (pro tip, no glass and nothing carbonated) and quite probably also really heavy (you're hauling a bunch of liquid refreshments around), or it'll be damned near impassable once you hit some of the dunes out there.

Of course, we can't know for sure what the deep playa will be like until we get out there, but last year was an absolute mess - we had trouble pedaling just ourselves on our trikes (and those had three wheels). I can't even imagine what it would have been trying to tow something behind.

But getting back to that freedom thing, your friend has a chance to do whatever goofy idea gets him excited. I don't know the specifics, but ancient civilizations made chariots work... and half the fun is trying to figure out the project. He'll learn, either the easy way or the hard way. He could also manage to make it work, it could fail spectacularly, or he could adapt his plan for on-playa success (sticking closer to home, etc).

[Captain Goddammit]

If those wheels are large enough diameter (think much bigger than bike wheels) it will probably roll just fine, through whatever. I've seen kinetic sculpture racers that prove the concept.
Big wheels also reduce rpm at the axle, reducing friction.

[Zubeneschamali]

If dreamers listened to the naysayers they wouldn't build. Then BM would be nothing more than shitty camping.

[maladroit]

People who suggest an upgraded/cheaper/stronger solution aren't naysayers.

[Zubeneschamali]

People who suggest an upgraded/cheaper/stronger solution aren't naysayers.

Did someone insinuate that they are?

[homo ardentum]

Thanks for weighing in Trilo!
Agree on all counts, especialy: "Part of the joy (and sometimes the agony) of the playa is that people are welcome to try all kinds of goofy stuff. I agree with you, I think a wooden-wheeled chariot would be a massive pain in the ass."

I'll make sure that Gao keeps everyone updated on his project. One thing for sure is that he's a man of his word and can be rather recalcitrant. Stay tuned!

[Gao]

ok ok ok - a picture may be worth thousands of words. here is my test sample for wheels. I plan to use 5/16 plywood, glued together with internal spokes. I expect each wheel to be 4 feet in diameter. Finished wheels will have most of the wood removed and cutout between the spokes, around outer diameter i plan to have short paddles to prevent wheels sinking into softer playa

[Gao]

here is the chariot itself with a dragon hitching a ride. Until the goddesses arrive - the dragon gets top billing.

[GreyCoyote]

Neat!

Can you put a "tread" on those wheels (maybe use luan skin or similar?). I'm a little worried about how they will handle the soft areas on the playa.

Other than that... Bravo!!!

[Gao]

yes - some sort of skin or tread would be good.. I'll have to think about it.. thanks!

[Shoeshine]

I went full chariot last year with 36" wood wheels. Three layers of 3/4" ply cut out and lammed up... they worked like a charm just spinning on a 5/8" shoulder bolt, but they weren't actually carrying the weight of the vehicle. I mounted them on little swing arms so they just rested their own weight on playa so they turned when I was moving.

hope that makes sense, I can sketch up the linkage if not.

Any way you can sneak in a couple of smallish wheels with real bearings under the carriage hidden under the shell and let your wood wheels be more decorative? much less of an engineering challenge and less prone to catastrophic failure out in deep playa. Harbor freight has sets from 4 "to 14" for dead cheap that will at least last the week.

you can always just pop em off before burning

[attachment=0]rhinoChariot.jpg[/attachment]

[Captain Goddammit]

Shoeshine, I LOVE your chariot! A REAL M/V, something custom-built with cool engineering.
Mutant vehicles at Burning Man are supposed to be about more than just having a playa car.
Awesome, nice work, this is the good shit!
This has that "Wow" factor, where you see it go by and say "Thats so cool! I'm glad I saw that, that's amazing". Not "Oh, another decorated golf cart... "
You are Doing It Right.

[Gao]

IMG-20150614-00109.jpg

[Gao]

IMG-20150614-00111.jpg

[Captain Goddammit]

Oh hell yeah. Those will work!

[Shoeshine]

agreed... badassery all around

I'll still throw in my $.02 for some bearings. Here in SD there are a couple of surplus places that you can pick up used bearings for next to nothing (well under $20) also available online of course. you could use a forstner bit or a router and template to make a pocket for em on the back side and use a steel shaft.

no need to (pun intended) re-invent the wheel...

...and thanks Cap. I appreciate it. Labor of love, as I'm sure you know. Your ship was one among many that inspired me to want to "bring it".

[mudpuppy000]

ok ok ok - a picture may be worth thousands of words. here is my test sample for wheels. I plan to use 5/16 plywood, glued together with internal spokes. I expect each wheel to be 4 feet in diameter. Finished wheels will have most of the wood removed and cutout between the spokes, around outer diameter i plan to have short paddles to prevent wheels sinking into softer playa

Might want to whack it with a hammer and see if the glue breaks loose. Seems like it could experience a lot of jarring rolling across the uneven playa.


Edit: oh nevermind, loooks like that was an older version.

[homo ardentum]

Now Gao needs new wheels for his bike! Those wheels dwarf his large framed mountain bike in that last photo. I cant wait to see him tow this thing!!!
Baddassery...yes!
Bearings? Ehhhhh......since Gao himself is of Viking stature and I'm sure his 6' 5" frame can handle those little toys!

[homo ardentum]

Update here on Gao's behalf. He's mastered attaching photos to an email, but posting here is below his pay grade. Normally he has support of many minions to handle these type of details. BUT he's done an incredibly good job on preparing his wheels for the Martini Chariot! If he does as well on the body, Gao may not want to burn it....

IMG-20150626-00122.jpg

[FIGJAM]

HOLY SPOKES!!!

[Ratty]

I can't wait to see it in person. It's magnificent.

[Shoeshine]

holy sheepshit... those are amazing

[homo ardentum]

Open topic for the masses: Shall Gao leave the wheels open style (playa paddle wheel) or wrap them with a thin wood strip?

It's possible that the open style may be effective though the shallow dunes...or just a dust maker? Also there are more potential playa paddle problems peddling past potholes.

[Canoe]

I've always been intrigued by designs I've seen on playa vehicles with huge DIY wheels:
a wide wheel mated to a very thin wheel of slightly larger diameter.
On hard ground, the thin wheel takes the load, and is easier rolling.
On soft ground, the thin wheel sinks and the load is now on the wide portion of the wheel.
Not sure how that could be adapted to this design at this point...

[Popeye]

Wow! What a great looking cart.
There is not a lot of torque on the spokes of a cart so I think you could get away without a covering on the wheels but if you want to give them more flotation you might think about stretching some conveyor belt material or an old snow machine track around the wheels. Either one can be cut to width on a table saw (with an old blade ) and be stitched with wire or lapped and held with carriage bolts.

[Canoe]

That sounds like a great material to get float, reduce wear (wood moop?) and reduce paddling the dust into the air. Used should be cheap too.

[Gao]

East Seattle-20150708-00136-1.jpg

hey everyone! I'm making progress.... both wheels are now formed. Next I need an axle so I can bore the holes. The axle is likely to be 2" dia oak. My friend Rod tells me oak is better than maple as it holds the grease better. I compared the contact surface area on my open design, and it is about double the contact point of typical beach bike tires. As I have two wheels, this means that as is I have ~4 times the contact area of a beach bike. So in my calculations - no need to add a cover/tread.
Please note - these are NOT paddles.. paddles stick into the water, or playa.. my cross tracks glide above the playa. speaking of gliding.. these wheels are so large and so round that the want to roll by themselves - to run free. I think pulling this thing is going to be easy peasy...
Now I'm working on the chassis.... my friend Jerry helped with the lay put - custom designed to support a cooler for ice and vodka, and a pace for glasses...