MONEY - a tricky subjsct

[Aurelia]

Well then.
In an era of technology risking to interface with biology, the only thing we KNOW is that we do love burning man.

perhaps we could "vote"

I recommend Not "coddling the balls of the rich" ( as one person said) as there is no end in sight of that preoccupation

xoA.

[Simon of the Playa]

well lets start by buying some more shitters.


i'm practical that way.

[Simon of the Playa]

and be careful with dollar bill, y'all, he's real good at traps...

[media]

[Mitch]

... Although, as I type, I could see a huge benefit to improving (there are a number of methods) an alternate route for ingress and egress, ala Jungo or a similar route.

If it was a little used path, like Jungo, it has to be upgraded enough for the idiots who will drive it (or toll-booth giving an IQ and fitness test...) to survive the drive without taking anyone else out with them. And it's not just building it, but the upkeep. A lot more than sending a grader down it both directions along with a crew to dump shovels of gravel where needed.
I've not come in from the North. I have no idea what the situation is there.

I'm not seeing a viable alternate route, nor one that would meaningfully reduce load on the main highway.

If there were enough $ to do something for roads, I'd look at improving the road up from Fernley. Locals get to use the improvements year round too.

If you just look on a map and don't take account of costs, it would be great to add an exit to an upgraded Jungo Road off the east side of the Playa for people coming from the northern states to the east and to create a route that would allow people from Northern California, Oregon, and points north to either connect with 447 by some method other than using the stretch of route 34 that runs south of BRC -- in other words, by going over the mountain -- or to upgrade 34 and 8a north of the BRC so that people could drive to and from Cedarville.

But I'm told that the cost of building roads is in the millions of dollars per mile (and going over a mountain, that's always fun).

The goal in both cases would be to divert some of the traffic away from the 447-to-34 connection that people coming from Reno, Fernley, or Fallon take.

[Token]

I'd bring back Chicken John and resurect BORG2.

And Bob! Hire Bob to build something.

We need more Bob!

[Captain Goddammit]

I think a big hit of money would really fuck things up.
Even NASCAR used to be interesting and cool as hell, before the big money. (After the '70s)
Subsidizing things like ticket price are impossible because that would create higher demand, which would result in a bigger black market for them.
Giving more to the Org would only make them even more wack.
Paying off government departments would raise the bar for what they expect for future event permits.
More art grants creates a kind of class separation between the paid professional artists and the amateurs.

So what to do with a big sum?
I think the only really good thing to do is what Simon said.
Shitters. That's the only thing with no down side. Everything else you throw big money at fucks it up more.

[some seeing eye]

The BMORG is new to this whole nonprofit thing. But they are swimming with the big fish. Here is a sketch on results-oriented philanthropy.

It's not exactly the BM culture. But the people who rub shoulders with the BMORG are part of that new philosophy. (And more shitters is easy. Fewer shitheads might take some thought)

Personally I think a program to get some of the art at BM from artists that can sustain their careers in the art world would have many benefits. It could just be a small fraction of the art.

[Aurelia]

It was too long to read and you got it right anyway
but shitheads are part of it
and the truth is we do /can
help them improve their shittyness
maybe too slow but some of it does help

When i stand at the edge of a group of playaheads at camp when they are totally self interested
and it is a time of serious need ..weather or other
I shout at them and scold
"What did your mother tell you about cleaning up after yourself !"
simple I know but invariably they sheepishly begin activation

xoA.

[forty_eight]

BMORG wanting to raise a bunch of money is so defaultia.

It's not like only a little money gets dumped into the event.

But, more must be better! <_<

[The Rod]

More art grants creates a kind of class separation between the paid professional artists and the amateurs.

I disagree. My hope is that more art grants will lessen the separation that already exists. I am one of these amateur artists you speak of, yet my art fucking rocks and I am amazed at how well it is received on the playa. However I simply do not have the means to create the art that I truly want to create for BM, on the scale that I want or that BM so desperately needs (says I anyways ). Like I said earlier, in regards to mutant vehicles especially, they are so cost prohibitive to the point that only paid professionals (mostly) get to build them, increasingly so as the 'bar' gets raised for invitation and licensing. You can build and maintain an art car for under $50k, but even then it's still in the tens of thousands of dollars range for anything but a modified golf cart.

Someone else pointed out that they prefer to see artists doing their own fundraising instead of receiving grants. That's all well and great, but I don't think a Kickstarter campaign asking to finance the entirety or majority of someone else's art car would be well received. Crowd sourced fundraising campaigns to support art cars seem to go over well when they are asking for support for very specific aspects of certain projects, more to enhance than to bankroll the whole thing. Without grants, and a $35,000 fundraising campaign being highly unrealistic how else to raise the funds? Take out a second mortgage? Eat nothing but ramen for the next 20 years? It's not like I don't have a decent income and enjoy a pretty comfortable life, I do, but who the fuck has an extra $50 grand laying around? Very few of us.


I do however agree with you CGD, that a big hit of money would fuck things up, especially if given directly to the BMORG. They have their heads so far up their asses they've forgotten the color of playa dust. Independent directing of funds to projects and artists could be a very good thing for the event..

[The Rod]

Shitters are a damn fine idea though.

[Captain Goddammit]

Mutant vehicles don't all have to be bus size. When you get into big-truck and bus stuff, costs go way up.
A whole lot of the really cool MVs aren't that size and weren't that expensive. Gaz's very well known Shark cost nowhere near five-figure money and is based on ordinary-size running gear.
I'm blanking on other specific examples right now but there are so many really great MVs that rely on a builder's enginuity rather than a five figure budget.
In truth, most bus size MVs are essentially the same as the decorated golf carts, just scaled up bigger. There's no cool custom engineering, no from-scratch chassis, no nothing. Just a decorated bus with a $$$$ sound system.
Dr. Helix's mutant vehicle is a great example of what MVs are all about, it's truly transformed, it's not a street car or bus with fabric or plywood over it, it looks awesome, and it isn't bus size or five figures.
I'll go as far as to say almost all the really good MVs AREN'T decorated busses.

Build something really cool, using as much junkyard parts as you can. The car I took my MV's engine out of was a $60 abandoned vehicle auction car. The boat hull was a free abandoned cabin cruiser. Most of the steel that forms the suspension and hull stiffening came from the trailer it was on. I had no huge budget.

The most unavoidable expense is transportation. You need a stout truck and a trailer big enough for whatever you build. But, if you're the type who welds and builds stuff with engines, chances are you've already got that

[some seeing eye]

Those are good comments above. I have always believed the greatest luxury of participating in the Nevada regional is not the golden ticket, but the freedom to take a week off from work. Next is transportation to a remote spot and survival gear and supplies. Third is storage space for everything from art cars, camps, costumes, stuff. The Bay Area has some of the highest prices per square foot for that stuff 51 weeks of the year.

But there the luxury divides. And I think one of our principles could be/open for discussion is to keep as much of the cash flow of that divide in the "Burning Man Community*."

As the Captain observes, if you have special skills, you can make a contribution of an art car, costumes, a camp, events at a modest cash flow.

But if you need an art car built, costumes made, camp structures made, sound systems, sound and video artists, and you have more money than time or skill, hire in the Burner Community. Don't hire someone who does not understand, you will get Disney(TM) or Electric Daisy Carnival(TM).

Maybe this idea is part of the money discussion?

*What is a Burner? - been many more than 3 times, and has creative projects which are stunning, IMO.

[Aurelia]

YES !

exactly what I intended to express..
The point is to continue
and the obstacles are many

xoA.

[Simon of the Playa]

http://news10.com/2015/12/13/burning-ma ... nment-tax/


you got means?


1. buy more shitters.

2. pay for the lawyers.

3. pay the taxes for the entire community. if the legal battle is lost.



there ya go bitches, put your money where your mouths are.

[Ratty]

The internet can eat up my life. I just HAD to read an article on the Reno Gazette which led to more and more and this http://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime/201 ... /77244924/

[Simon of the Playa]

word.truth.seen...



""I'm not against people who have money, who like money, who go crazy for money," Mujica said. "But in politics we have to separate them. We have to run people who love money too much out of politics, they're a danger in politics… People who love money should dedicate themselves to industry, to commerce, to multiply wealth. But politics is the struggle for the happiness of all."

When asked why rich people make bad representatives for poor people, Mujica pulled no punches.

"They tend to view the world through their perspective, which is the perspective of money. Even when operating with good intentions, the perspective they have of the world, of life, of their decisions, is informed by wealth. If we live in a world where the majority is supposed to govern, we have to try to root our perspective in that of the majority, not the minority."

[Bless]

No one buys or sells without the MONEY of the beast on/in mind or hand.

[ACfromSAC]

In such a scenario, I'd love to see some of the money go to creating Black Rock City Regional Transit. A mutant vehicle system of several busses that would be set up like a typical Regional Transit system in any other city. Have a few routes set up around the city so folks could wait at a bus stop and grab a lift to deep playa, center camp, Esplanade & 2, Thunderdome, the man, the temple, etc. The city is huge and lots of folks show up without bikes, thus the hoarding of yellow bikes & theft (see: unauthorized borrowing) of other people's bikes. If there were a bus system, I could see it being a fairly popular means of transportation around the city and HOPEFULLY a way of reducing bike theft & yellow bike stashing.

[Simon of the Playa]

[media]

[Sham]

I was playing with some rough calculations as to the chances of actually winning the big lottery tonight.

If you fill up a whole bunch 52 foot tractor trailers to the very top with cases of beer. Then have their bumpers touching and stretch that for just over 100 miles. (give or take an extra 10 miles won't really matter) Now you have to chooses the correct trailer along that hundred mile stretch. Then choose the correct case of beer within that correct trailer. Then choose the correct can of beer within that case of beer.

Yes, someone might win tonight, but it won't be you. It still might be fun for a $2 bet, but buying multiple tickets does NOT increase your odds. Buying 10,000 tickets really does not increase your odds, as it still remains very close to absolute zero on winning

Go ahead and say the cliche lines---"someone has to win", "I have as good a chance as anyone" and the all time favorite--"you can't win if you don't play".

Good luck if you're playing the lottery tonight.

[Dr. Pyro]

I was playing with some rough calculations as to the chances of actually winning the big lottery tonight.

If you fill up a whole bunch 52 foot tractor trailers to the very top with cases of beer. Then have their bumpers touching and stretch that for just over 100 miles. (give or take an extra 10 miles won't really matter) Now you have to chooses the correct trailer along that hundred mile stretch. Then choose the correct case of beer within that correct trailer. Then choose the correct can of beer within that case of beer.

Yes, someone might win tonight, but it won't be you. It still might be fun for a $2 bet, but buying multiple tickets does NOT increase your odds. Buying 10,000 tickets really does not increase your odds, as it still remains very close to absolute zero on winning

Go ahead and say the cliche lines---"someone has to win", "I have as good a chance as anyone" and the all time favorite--"you can't win if you don't play".

Good luck if you're playing the lottery tonight.

That's about the stupidest thing I've ever read. The odds of winning the lottery are 50/50: Either I will win or I won't.

[lucky420]

I like Docs odds

[FIGJAM]

We all like Doc odd!!!

[lucky420]

He's an odd doc for sure

[Ratty]

Everyone at work was talking about it. I actually went to the store and bought a bag of BBQ chips. $1.49. Woo Hoo! I win 50 cents. I would have bought a powerball ticket but I got distracted. I'm pretty sure it would have ruined my kids lives anyway. It's not too late but I'm halfway through my glass of wine and that would be really dumb to go now. Hey. Look there. I have legs. I could walk the 3 blocks. Naaaah. Good luck everybody.

[Meat Hunter]

Miss Ratty,

I have an inside track on the BIG lottery and my informer advises me that the winning lottery number will be just one number off from the number that you would have chosen.

Unfortunately, they will not tell me what number you would have chosen......

[Dr. Pyro]

You guys can laugh all you want, but when I win the lottery, I'm going to buy myself an entirely new set of friends. Friends who really like me.

[Ratty]

I was planning to send one of the bartenders back to med school and another one needs her student loans paid. (She works 50+ hrs week.) Other than that...I would pay someone to volunteer for me and buy bigger cake.

[BBadger]

I'm glad some people are keeping it real.