Suicidal Tendencies

[Elliot]

Strangely, we are not talking about "the elephant in the room" down here in Davis. A little bit, yes -- we outlined the basics of my situation -- but we tend to stick with "guy talk" -- nuts and bolts, gears and sprockets, wheels and axles type of stuff.

Of course, there are other people here for thanksgiving, for a total of three small children. So I play with the kids and suffer thru children's films on the TV

Absolutely no idea what is going to happen next. Decades of self-neglect can not likely be fixed in a couple of weeks.

But wanted to check in.

My brother has now read thru the entire thread. Said it looked like I have a pretty darn good bunch of people around me here. As if he needed to tell me that!

----------------

"I don't want to survive. I want to live." --From a movie I watched with the kids here yesterday. Seems to apply.

[Oldguy]

Happy ' Eat pie for breakfast day'.

[gyre]

Elliot, you have to consider a chemical component to all this, especially with your genetic background.

There are plenty of people that for them, suicide would constitute a public service.
You can't make that cut.


Besides, doesn't being willing to consider suicide open up an endless series of high risk life options?

Life is already extremely tenuous.

[burner von braun]

..umm.. yeaahh.. ..uhh..

ok, before you go tying a rocketpack to his arse, and send him through mid-town traffic on rollerskates..

Let the man heal a bit..

..you see, we kinda like Elliot, and we're hoping to keep him around for awhile.

[Patsh]

..you see, we kinda like Elliot, and we're hoping to keep him around for awhile.

+100!

[gyre]

That's what I'm hoping for.

[Sham]

Elliot, you have to consider a chemical component to all this, especially with your genetic background.

There are plenty of people that for them, suicide would constitute a public service.
You can't make that cut.


Besides, doesn't being willing to consider suicide open up an endless series of high risk life options?

Life is already extremely tenuous.

[gyre]

Okay Shambala, let's hear your life changing affirmation.

[TinkerMom]

..you see, we kinda like Elliot, and we're hoping to keep him around for awhile.

+100!

+1,000,000!!!!!!!!!!

((((Elliot))))

[burner von braun]

After re-reading your post gyre, I realize I may have misinterpreted your meaning. My appologies for a bit of unwarranted snark. I now see that you may have been suggesting that once a person opens the door to the idea of suicide, they may be more inclined to engage in high risk behavior in general, with potentially disasterous results. All the more reason to seek help if one begins to entertain such thoughts.

(crap, that's twice I've fouled one off lately)

[maryanimal]

After re-reading your post gyre, I realize I may have misinterpreted your meaning. My appologies for a bit of unwarranted snark. I now see that you may have been suggesting that once a person opens the door to the idea of suicide, they may be more inclined to engage in high risk behavior in general, with potentially disasterous results. All the more reason to seek help if one begins to entertain such thoughts.

(crap, that's twice I've fouled one off lately)

No worries bvb! I was puzzled by the comment also, however I think gyre meant no harm! I've re-readsome of my post after I posted them, and thought some of them sounded awful or mean.

[gyre]

Sheesh, am I really that obscure?


I am just pointing out that sticking around for something you find worthwhile, but might not have risked in the past, is less dangerous than being dead.
Doesn't have to be physical danger.

And I once again point out that statistics of group risk are inaccurate for individuals.

Anyone that can consider suicide, can open their mind to other roads.

[delle]

Anyone that can consider suicide, can open their mind to other roads.

This is how I read the comment. And I thought it a good one.

From what I've seen of my son's progression, once the suicide card was played and the table-full of other players jumped on it, a whole new game opened up. With a whole new deck of cards that had not yet even been considered.

Like wh...sh said.

Sometimes all that a failing business needs is a new vision and consequently new mission.

It takes a good deal of guts to change direction. A good deal of Risk. I think what Gyre was saying was that once you’ve actually settled in your soul that suicide is feasible for you, you might also be willing to take that risk first.

[delle]

I wanted to edit to add something, but was denied the opportunity.... I guess it took me more than an hour to get to work and remember.

What I wanted to add was that at this point it's no longer about maintaining the status quo, but rather about trying to build a life one might envisage as pleasant and challenging in a good way. Again, once you've looked so far outside the box as to consider the unknown of the afterlife, certain other changes might seem a whole lot less extreme.....

[graidawg]

..umm.. yeaahh.. ..uhh..

ok, before you go tying a rocketpack to his arse, and send him through mid-town traffic on rollerskates..

that sounds like fun!

[Elliot]

Besides, doesn't being willing to consider suicide open up an endless series of high risk life options?

Wow, what a wonderful discussion Gyre's post lead to!

I immediately read it as meaning that I am now free to take risks I would not previously have dared to take lest I "Darwin myself" by it. Nothing to lose, everything to gain, sort of thing. I like it.

Next...

[Elliot]

Sheesh, am I really that obscure?


I am just pointing out that sticking around for something you find worthwhile, but might not have risked in the past, is less dangerous than being dead.
Doesn't have to be physical danger.

And I once again point out that statistics of group risk are inaccurate for individuals.

Anyone that can consider suicide, can open their mind to other roads.

Again, yes.

[Elliot]

Anyone that can consider suicide, can open their mind to other roads.

This is how I read the comment. And I thought it a good one.

From what I've seen of my son's progression, once the suicide card was played and the table-full of other players jumped on it, a whole new game opened up. With a whole new deck of cards that had not yet even been considered.

Like wh...sh said.

Sometimes all that a failing business needs is a new vision and consequently new mission.

It takes a good deal of guts to change direction. A good deal of Risk. I think what Gyre was saying was that once you’ve actually settled in your soul that suicide is feasible for you, you might also be willing to take that risk first.

Once again, yes. (This may be getting a bit repetitious! But I'm trying to go thru the posts in order.)

[Elliot]

... at this point it's no longer about maintaining the status quo, but rather about trying to build a life...

WELL PUT!

...once you've looked so far outside the box as to consider the unknown of the afterlife, certain other changes might seem a whole lot less extreme.....

Darn right.

[Elliot]

So... where do I stand as of today?

No idea, except for growing agreement with input such as this latest crop of posts. Turning the moribund business around with "new vision & mission" may actually be feasible. Re-use only the building, machinery and staff. (my body).

This would constitute a major "culture shock" for me. In a way, I have lived too sheltered a life.

-----------------------------------

A major concern:
In most arenas of life -- public administration, invention and manufacturing, charitable organizations, personal emotions, foreign policy, etc -- many good ideas are brought up and projects started with the best intentions. But much of it fizzles, sooner or later. So it seems quite likely that in, say, three weeks, this thread and all that pertains to it will be forgotten and I will be back where I started last week. But I'm trying not to think that far ahead right now. Instead, trying to allow my mind a vacation.

[FIGJAM]

They are using a lot of words to say "If you change what you think, it will change what you feel".

[Nipple]

The following has mirrored my experiences.

Some of it has rang true in today's thread additions.

I invite you all to take a peek at it, if you're not already familiar with Hyperbole and a Half.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2 ... ssion.html

[Elliot]

They are using a lot of words to say "If you change what you think, it will change what you feel".

This sounds right. But how do I change what I think? I seem to have no control over my thoughts -- other than to engage in deliberate diversions (such as watching movies).

[Elliot]

I invite you all to take a peek at it, if you're not already familiar with Hyperbole and a Half.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2 ... ssion.html

Hot dang. The author must have been following me around, writing everything down. The item about failing to start the laundry, for example. The only mismatch is that I did not suddenly wake up one morning like this; it developed over a long time.

[maryanimal]

Hi Elliot!! Nice to see you. Hope you've had a relaxing week. Have you thought about moving to Davis? Maybe you won't feel/be so isolated. I understand the snowbird thing now. I'd love to be in a warmer place right now. Maybe Hawaii!!

[delle]

They are using a lot of words to say "If you change what you think, it will change what you feel".

This sounds right. But how do I change what I think? I seem to have no control over my thoughts -- other than to engage in deliberate diversions (such as watching movies).

I found that what worked for me was to start immersing myself in things that were uplifting and enjoyable and fodder for GOOD. Watching movies are great, but it depends on the movie. Ditto reading.

Zoloft may have retrained my serotonin re-uptake mechanism, but it was what I DID that retrained my head and my heart and realigned my soul. And that's what sustained me after the drugs were done. You really are what you ingest when it comes to depression.

Taking walks. Biking. This helps enormously as well. Getting the blood flowing and the muscles unkinked.


Which brings me to a doozy:

I have this friend I'd lost touch with for 3 decades or so come by my house last spring. He was so impressed by what I had in my relationship with my husband that he started obsessing over it. It became all we ever talked about. How he could get himself some of THAT!!!

I was shocked when he announced that he'd joined E Harmony. (although I had met my husband on the internet -- when neither of us was looking -- in a place much like EPlaya, and I will maintain until my death that meeting a person from the inside out is a far FAR better way than getting all hopped up over an exterior and then trying to make the rest fit, for some reason I've never held much respect for E Harmony and the like)

Long story short, he's having a BLAST. No longer depressed, he goes out for walks and coffee several times a week. Is surrounded by interesting and intelligent women, either in correspondence or in person. Although he has now pretty much settled with one particular beauty, he's made a whole smack of friends and his self-esteem and LIFE are in a completely different place now.

And, although kind of forced (i.e. Dating is the reason for meeting), he IS meeting them from the inside out, and reaping the benefits.

I would think that with your particular profile.... what with Burning Man and your Kinetic Vehicles, etc., you would attract a pretty interesting bunch of women.

...Even if just for a coffee and a walk. ...and some good old friendly conversation.

It's moments like those that change your mind.


Which in turn change your moment.... then your day.... then your life.

[MyDearFriend]

(((Delle))) you really caught it.

(((Eliott))) changing your thoughts could be as simple as saying "yes" instead of "no."

"Yes, that might help."

"Yes, I would like that."

"Yes, this is fun."

Just say yes.

[FIGJAM]

Simple example:

I get in an accident with my truck.

I'm not hurt, but the truck is totaled.

There are 1000's of thoughts that can go through my mind, and that each one will cause a different feeling, but I know that I get to choose which thoughts.

"My truck is ruined!!! I loved my truck!!!!! Now all I have is a fucked up truck!!!!!!!"

These thoughts will cause my feelings to be painful to me wheather, angry, sad, scared, or whatever, and they won't help a damn bit,

I'm so out of PRACTICE with having thoughts like that, it was hard to think of an example.

So my thoughts run more like ,"Wow, That was exiting! I did'nt even get hurt!! I get to buy another truck and now that I'm going to Burning Man, it will have neat shit options to make my trip easier!!!!!! I think I'll go home and make some chocolate chip cookies and think about my cool new truck!"

A simple change in perpective is all it takes.

Look at anything from as many angles as possible and be creative as hell in that process.

Takes practice, because you've had years of practice thinking "All I have is a fuck up truck!"

"Erroneos Zones" explains this better than I can over the computer, but face to face, there is'nt a thought that I can't change, which will change the FEELING instantly.

Be well Elliot.

I'm on your side!

[TinkerMom]

So... where do I stand as of today?

Baby, at least your standing!!!!!

That's a good step!!

And to copy MDF,, just say "Yes"!!

But it's also good to an occasional "no".

[theCryptofishist]

This might be a good place to start...

Or if you think wikipedia might be more neutral...