Gods

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Tue May 12, 2009 7:23 am

by "genocide of faith" ... i did not think you were talking about killing the people, so much simply not allowing them to practice what they believe. you probably do think of hitler as a christian, don't you?

from what i read, europe is growing more islamic, not less.

as for ignorance, the most massively educated person i know is very deeply religious ... and yes, he's educated far beyond you. the current pope has an incredible education. i read your posts - you start with your own ideas, then look for sources that uphold them. that is not a search for truth, but an exercise in ego enhancement. religion has always been part of the human experience, and i don't think you are going to change that.

if anything, all of the arrogant hate you're spewing towards 1/2 of the planet is more likely to repel people, than attract them... although, you are mostly speaking to the choir here, so it's a moot point anyhow.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:04 am

littleflower wrote:by "genocide of faith" ... i did not think you were talking about killing the people, so much simply not allowing them to practice what they believe. you probably do think of hitler as a christian, don't you?

is this the statement that has got you confused? "...Its wasn't until Christians gain control of the Romans and access to the Empire that judaism idiology was able to spread their genocide over the existing indigenous theologies..."

Where did you get the idea that I am a christian? When I say genocide, i'm not talking metaphorically. They, the christians, went on crusade to kill, burn, destroy all those that were not of their faith and we are talking about many ideologies. All of them murdered by the Christians!

Yes, Hitler was a babtised christian. He was also about 1/2-1/4 part Jewish.

from what i read, europe is growing more islamic, not less.

As a percentage of total big three they are gaining but not enought to to affect the trend. younger people of Musim decent are not continuing their parents faith.

as for ignorance, the most massively educated person i know is very deeply religious ... and yes, he's educated far beyond you.

What makes you an expert on ME? You don't know a fucking thing about me or my education! A person can have the finest education and still be a moron in certain subjects. A person can be selectively blind to the facts.

the current pope has an incredible education. i read your posts - you start with your own ideas, then look for sources that uphold them. that is not a search for truth, but an exercise in ego enhancement. religion has always been part of the human experience, and i don't think you are going to change that.

Sour grapes! You post simplistically short edited excerpts to contradict me! If you spent more then your "30 seconds" to fully read then intellectually interpret your references you wouldn't waste my time to counter them.

if anything, all of the arrogant hate you're spewing towards 1/2 of the planet is more likely to repel people, than attract them... although, you are mostly speaking to the choir here, so it's a moot point anyhow.

Hate, what Hate? Post my hateful statements! I point out what is true! So I'll give you one more chance to post my hateful statement, but beware that they are first not truthful, Then I will stop this little Tit and Tat with you.

So you are a christian or a Jew?

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:51 am

AZ ...i never suggested that you were a christian. you accuse me of not taking the time to understand your posts intellectually, but you do the same to me. in fact ... we are arguing in different ways ... you have your "facts", which often look to me cherry-picked, debatable, or mere opinions, while i am arguing semantics. i am the one with the intellectual arguments, not you.

What makes you an expert on ME? You don't know a fucking thing about me or my education! A person can have the finest education and still be a moron in certain subjects. A person can be selectively blind to the facts.

i do not have to know your education to know that it is not superior to that of someone close to me... that was a statement about him, not you. i totally agree that many well-educated people are blind to things they don't want to know ... and i am sorry, but i would include *you* and anyone else who believes that they know the "truth" ... and calls everyone who disagrees with them a moron! there is way too much information out there to "know", conclusively, what the truth is .... which is where faith comes in. IMHO anyone who claims to know what the "truth" is about the biggest things lacks wisdom... in a BIG way. that's my opinion, and i am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to your opinion that christians are the root of all evil.

this entire thread looks to me like a christian bashing thread, and yes, i think that promotes hate, not peace. you live in a christian country that allows freedom of religion, yet you harp on events that took place thousands of years ago. and you have no solutions to anything, no real agenda, nothing positive to offer that i can see ...

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:30 am

Evil because Evil lies in the root of the torah, bible and Koran!

We would not have the Dark Ages! We wouldn't have a discussion on Prejean. We wouldn't be in Afghanistan! Or the midest conflict!

End of argument with you i will be putting you on the ignore list because you must have the last word! You have also turned this discussion into a personal attack that I am a moron!

See the movie that got your goats up [youtube][/youtube]

and Demons and Angels!

or its alternative title:

Revenge of the Science Nerds!

[youtube][/youtube]

Those Iluminaughty are at it again. this time their out for revenge.

Mankind lives in a physical, tangible, material world, which is influenced by the invisible, spiritual world around us. This spiritual world is just as real in our day as it was when the Lord Jesus walked the face of the earth nearly 2,000 years ago. Glimpses into this spirit world are revealed from time to time throughout the Old and New Testaments. It is only here that we can factually learn about angels, demons and Satan himself. Sadly many have been misinformed about these, especially those involved in the occult. There is a great need to set the record straight regarding these and the related, especially in our hour, with its present angel craze, channeling and a belief in spirit guides. Without writing a thick volume on angels, demons and Satan, let's proceed with some answers from the only reliable source that God has given mankind -- the Bible.

He used the word, "factually"!

AIIZ

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:54 am

littleflower wrote:i totally agree that many well-educated people are blind to things they don't want to know ... and i am sorry, but i would include *you* and anyone else who believes that they know the "truth" ... and calls everyone who disagrees with them a moron!

The "truth"? Well, I see it as there are in reality, two options for this truth.

1. Some form of holy text coupled with an invisible sky daddy that you talk to that's going ot make it all better.

2. Using common sense and intelligence to make observations on the physical world around you and being capable of saying "Nope, haven't got a clue." about something without the need to resort to flights of fantasy and create supernatural mumbo jumbo to explain it away.

Agnostics are simply pussies that can't commit.

there is way too much information out there to "know", conclusively, what the truth is .... which is where faith comes in.

Faith is simply covering ignorance with a substitution of supernatural causation to explain the unknown.

The information out there, the hard, tangible observable data does not support or help anything related to the supernatural. As observable and creatable data through experimentation has evolved over the centuries, it has undermined virtually every aspect of the supernatural.

IMHO anyone who claims to know what the "truth" is about the biggest things lacks wisdom... in a BIG way.

But it is wise and intelligent to place faith and belief in the supernatural because a book loaded with horrible translation sand contradictions tells you to?

that's my opinion, and i am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to your opinion that christians are the root of all evil.

Sure, you are entitled to such an opinion. And actually, its organized religion of all faiths that has been behind the majority of the "evil" perpetrated in this world.

this entire thread looks to me like a christian bashing thread, and yes, i think that promotes hate, not peace.

Yes... because religion does such a good job of promoting peace.

you live in a christian country that allows freedom of religion,

We live in a nation that was hijacked by zealots that were too far out there for even the Catholic Church of the 15th century to deal with. The Puritans had zero tolerance to anything beyond their narrow scope of prejudice and ignorance and tended to burn those that disagreed with them at the stake.

The people that brought this nation freedom of religion were not religious men for the most part and settled here to plunder and get rich and toss of the yoke of the monarchy that was preventing them from doing so, not for any kind of religious freedoms.

yet you harp on events that took place thousands of years ago. and you have no solutions to anything, no real agenda, nothing positive to offer that i can see ...

How about the current events being carried out in tby the followers of the Christian God? Genocide, slavery, rape, torture, murder, kidnapping etc are still alive and well and being done so in the name of Jesus on a daily basis.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:34 am

here oopah, is called anti-christian because she believes that there is more then one way to get to Nivana (ok not jokes i'm serious here)

But what this reveals is the hidding agenda of Christains and it hasn't changed since the Roman instituted it- world domination!

[youtube][/youtube]

More death and destruction for the non-believer.

AIIZ

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:43 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:here oopah, is called anti-christian because she believes that there is more then one way to get to Nivana (ok not jokes i'm serious here)

Well that is an issue for organized religious doctrine. Its their way or the highway.

But what this reveals is the hidding agenda of Christains and it hasn't changed since the Roman instituted it- world domination!

Why are you so narrowly focused? That is the goal of pretty much all organized religions.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:47 am

CapSmashy wrote:
littleflower wrote:i totally agree that many well-educated people are blind to things they don't want to know ... and i am sorry, but i would include *you* and anyone else who believes that they know the "truth" ... and calls everyone who disagrees with them a moron!
The "truth"? Well, I see it as there are in reality, two options for this truth.

1. Some form of holy text coupled with an invisible sky daddy that you talk to that's going ot make it all better.

2. Using common sense and intelligence to make observations on the physical world around you and being capable of saying "Nope, haven't got a clue." about something without the need to resort to flights of fantasy and create supernatural mumbo jumbo to explain it away.

Agnostics are simply pussies that can't commit.

there is way too much information out there to "know", conclusively, what the truth is .... which is where faith comes in.

Faith is simply covering ignorance with a substitution of supernatural causation to explain the unknown.

The information out there, the hard, tangible observable data does not support or help anything related to the supernatural. As observable and creatable data through experimentation has evolved over the centuries, it has undermined virtually every aspect of the supernatural.

IMHO anyone who claims to know what the "truth" is about the biggest things lacks wisdom... in a BIG way.

But it is wise and intelligent to place faith and belief in the supernatural because a book loaded with horrible translation sand contradictions tells you to?

that's my opinion, and i am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to your opinion that christians are the root of all evil.

Sure, you are entitled to such an opinion. And actually, its organized religion of all faiths that has been behind the majority of the "evil" perpetrated in this world.

this entire thread looks to me like a christian bashing thread, and yes, i think that promotes hate, not peace.

Yes... because religion does such a good job of promoting peace.

you live in a christian country that allows freedom of religion,

We live in a nation that was hijacked by zealots that were too far out there for even the Catholic Church of the 15th century to deal with. The Puritans had zero tolerance to anything beyond their narrow scope of prejudice and ignorance and tended to burn those that disagreed with them at the stake.

The people that brought this nation freedom of religion were not religious men for the most part and settled here to plunder and get rich and toss of the yoke of the monarchy that was preventing them from doing so, not for any kind of religious freedoms.

yet you harp on events that took place thousands of years ago. and you have no solutions to anything, no real agenda, nothing positive to offer that i can see ...

How about the current events being carried out in tby the followers of the Christian God? Genocide, slavery, rape, torture, murder, kidnapping etc are still alive and well and being done so in the name of Jesus on a daily basis.

I concur! Well said.

JK

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:59 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
But what this reveals is the hidding agenda of Christains and it hasn't changed since the Roman instituted it- world domination!

CapSmashy wrote:Why are you so narrowly focused? That is the goal of pretty much all organized religions.

That's what I love about my Religion, we're so un-organized!

AIIZ

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:12 pm

CapSmashy wrote:
littleflower wrote:i totally agree that many well-educated people are blind to things they don't want to know ... and i am sorry, but i would include *you* and anyone else who believes that they know the "truth" ... and calls everyone who disagrees with them a moron!
The "truth"? Well, I see it as there are in reality, two options for this truth.

1. Some form of holy text coupled with an invisible sky daddy that you talk to that's going ot make it all better.

2. Using common sense and intelligence to make observations on the physical world around you and being capable of saying "Nope, haven't got a clue." about something without the need to resort to flights of fantasy and create supernatural mumbo jumbo to explain it away.

Agnostics are simply pussies that can't commit.

there is way too much information out there to "know", conclusively, what the truth is .... which is where faith comes in.

Faith is simply covering ignorance with a substitution of supernatural causation to explain the unknown.

The information out there, the hard, tangible observable data does not support or help anything related to the supernatural. As observable and creatable data through experimentation has evolved over the centuries, it has undermined virtually every aspect of the supernatural.

IMHO anyone who claims to know what the "truth" is about the biggest things lacks wisdom... in a BIG way.

But it is wise and intelligent to place faith and belief in the supernatural because a book loaded with horrible translation sand contradictions tells you to?

that's my opinion, and i am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to your opinion that christians are the root of all evil.

Sure, you are entitled to such an opinion. And actually, its organized religion of all faiths that has been behind the majority of the "evil" perpetrated in this world.

this entire thread looks to me like a christian bashing thread, and yes, i think that promotes hate, not peace.

Yes... because religion does such a good job of promoting peace.

you live in a christian country that allows freedom of religion,

We live in a nation that was hijacked by zealots that were too far out there for even the Catholic Church of the 15th century to deal with. The Puritans had zero tolerance to anything beyond their narrow scope of prejudice and ignorance and tended to burn those that disagreed with them at the stake.

The people that brought this nation freedom of religion were not religious men for the most part and settled here to plunder and get rich and toss of the yoke of the monarchy that was preventing them from doing so, not for any kind of religious freedoms.

yet you harp on events that took place thousands of years ago. and you have no solutions to anything, no real agenda, nothing positive to offer that i can see ...

How about the current events being carried out in tby the followers of the Christian God? Genocide, slavery, rape, torture, murder, kidnapping etc are still alive and well and being done so in the name of Jesus on a daily basis.

wow, bold statement........not untrue, I'm sure, but, certainly biased........
I'd go for that statement in reference to any religion you want to state, or, that all religions, now or at another time, have done the same.........

perhaps, it's not "religion", but, evil people, hiding behind the curtain, of same......?

just a thought.........

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:18 pm

ygmir wrote: perhaps, it's not "religion", but, evil people, hiding behind the curtain, of same......?

just a thought.........

or perhaps it was those evil people that actually created religion and then found that it could also be used curtain to hide behind--if you can't control them with magic, control them in the name of magic.

just another thought.....

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:34 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote: perhaps, it's not "religion", but, evil people, hiding behind the curtain, of same......?

just a thought.........
or perhaps it was those evil people that actually created religion and then found that it could also be used curtain to hide behind--if you can't control them with magic, control them in the name of magic.

just another thought.....

JK

well, perhaps
certainly possible.

so, do you completely discount deities, magic, spirit, etc?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:24 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote: perhaps, it's not "religion", but, evil people, hiding behind the curtain, of same......?

just a thought.........
or perhaps it was those evil people that actually created religion and then found that it could also be used curtain to hide behind--if you can't control them with magic, control them in the name of magic.

just another thought..... :wink:

JK
well, perhaps
certainly possible.

so, do you completely discount deities, magic, spirit, etc?

No we don't

Half priced Wednesdays All day Deities and don't forget...

Sack O'Saints Saturdays!

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:30 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote: perhaps, it's not "religion", but, evil people, hiding behind the curtain, of same......?

just a thought.........
or perhaps it was those evil people that actually created religion and then found that it could also be used curtain to hide behind--if you can't control them with magic, control them in the name of magic.

just another thought.....

JK
well, perhaps
certainly possible.

so, do you completely discount deities, magic, spirit, etc?

Yes.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:09 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote: or perhaps it was those evil people that actually created religion and then found that it could also be used curtain to hide behind--if you can't control them with magic, control them in the name of magic.

just another thought.....

JK
well, perhaps
certainly possible.

so, do you completely discount deities, magic, spirit, etc?
Yes.

JK

oh, ok.
I kind of thought you had said that at another time, but, thought I'd clarify in my little mind........
I can, then, understand your statements.
And, as usual, made with eloquence, and intellect.......

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:47 am

CapSmashy wrote:The "truth"? Well, I see it as there are in reality, two options for this truth.

1. Some form of holy text coupled with an invisible sky daddy that you talk to that's going ot make it all better.

2. Using common sense and intelligence to make observations on the physical world around you and being capable of saying "Nope, haven't got a clue." about something without the need to resort to flights of fantasy and create supernatural mumbo jumbo to explain it away.

this is not at all how i see faith... it has more to do with unobservable phenomena than those things that are observable and physical. and it is not about one book, but hundreds, thousands of books and thoughts and ideas written over the centuries.

perhaps the world makes sense to you .... it does not make much sense to me. there is always, always too much that is not explained, too many variables, too much mystery to be conclusive about much of anything. it's really quite fascinating, isn't it?

the bottom line is ... you guys are either far more brilliant than i am, or far more closed-minded.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:33 am

What if there was nobody there?

would you stop everything and commit suicide or go on?

Would you stop being a good person?

What would it matter?

Doesn't mean shit except unless you were a rabbi, priest or imam?

I guess if you where a highly devout religious person it would then you might commit suicide knowing everything they told you was a lie!

You're not going to sit next to god or jesus in the after life. The rapture is never going to hapen. You might be in shock, but is it better to know now then after you wasted your life doing funny things, hurting others that didn't follow your God!

And you would then think, "I could have had a V8!"

AIIZ

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:46 am

AZ, why do you want to resurrect the ancient gods? Surely you have a similar faith to littleflower's. You have faith that all the old classical myths had some sort of validity, that if you believe them in some way, then everything will be all right.

You're not similar to me. You're seeking Apollo; I am seeking truth.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Wed May 13, 2009 10:02 am

zeusy, i thought you plonked me!

i am sorry that you feel i attacked you... but please try to understand, christians and jews are attacked constantly around here and in popular culture, and i get sick of it. and you are a regular offender. it's nothing personal, i am just defending myself.

i'm not a deeply religious person, but i am close to a lot of people who are, and see much to admire in them. they are neither stupid nor ignorant, and they have no wish to force their beliefs on anyone, either. and they feel very much like they are under attack.

i could go on, but i'd just start repeating meself, so i'll stop...

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:52 am

The internet tends to polarize people. Nothing wrong with resisting that temptation.

Little Flower, I promised you Emerson.

Here is something from his essay Nature:

The foregoing generations beheld God and nature face to face; we, through their eyes . Why should not we also enjoy an original relation to the universe? Why should not we have a poetry and philosophy of insight and not of tradition, and a religion by revelation to us, and not the history of theirs?

Why this need to attach our spirituality to people who went before us 1000 years ago (Ygmir) or 2000 (littleflower) or 2500 (yeah, I'm looking at you Zeusy).

Do buy the oldest computers or cars thinking that because they are old, they'll be better? No, we look for something that's customized for us and our needs today.

Disclaimer: I am plenty attached to the Old Ways (as a historical reenactor). But I don't live it 24/7. That would be barbaric.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Thu May 14, 2009 1:16 pm

well ... i don't see much in the world that's worthy of creating a new religion for, dougly ...

as for the old stuff ... i think there is a distinction between information and knowledge ... what good is something you've memorized without understanding? to understand, we have to put ourselves into it ... so in a way, it is new, it is ours, if we make the effort. we can be guided, indeed, we must be guided ... and there are a great many paths we can take, a few thousand years of influences. my religious friend teaches plato and aristotle, and loves sitting at a zen garden ... but ... it's easier to make sense of it all when there is a central focus, no?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:28 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:The internet tends to polarize people. Nothing wrong with resisting that temptation.

Little Flower, I promised you Emerson. Here is something from his essay Nature:
The foregoing generations beheld God and nature face to face; we, through their eyes . Why should not we also enjoy an original relation to the universe? Why should not we have a poetry and philosophy of insight and not of tradition, and a religion by revelation to us, and not the history of theirs?
Why this need to attach our spirituality to people who went before us 1000 years ago (Ygmir) or 2000 (littleflower) or 2500 (yeah, I'm looking at you Zeusy). Do buy the oldest computers or cars thinking that because they are old, they'll be better? No, we look for something that's customized for us and our needs today.

Disclaimer: I am plenty attached to the Old Ways (as a historical reenactor). But I don't live it 24/7. That would be barbaric.

my Nordic Paganism is much more than 1K years old...........
The Vikings just made it popular.........
It's on par age wise with any Sumerians, etc.............

Well,
those are my thoughts..........,*kicking dust*.........

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:48 pm

Nobody's an expert, that's for sure.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:04 pm

so true............

and,
they're all liars 'cept you and me,,,,,,,,,,,
and,
I'm not so sure about you.............

giggle.......

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:21 pm

Why not go back to the begining...Before there were any religions?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:00 pm

there is that..............

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:36 am

I collect some antiques, for sentimental reasons. But I wouldn't count on any of them to save my life. For that I have a brand-new .45.

Enough discussion! Let us watch!

[youtube][/youtube]

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:18 am

Judge the Religion by it's Society!

One was creating mechanical computers, the other was destroying education and the role of women.

Which would you choose?

Sorry, that you never had the chance to choose, because someone denied you that right almost a thousand years ago.

Now all you know is lies.

and you believe them!

AIIZ

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:02 am

There once was a famous wizard who said that resentment would ruin your magic.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:49 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Judge the Religion by it's Society!

One was creating mechanical computers, the other was destroying education and the role of women.

Which would you choose?

Sorry, that you never had the chance to choose, because someone denied you that right almost a thousand years ago.

Now all you know is lies.

and you believe them!

AIIZ

"Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on
the roof and gets stuck."

Gods

I believe that are...