The Contraption 2.0

Zorch · Post by **Zorch** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:12 pm

Anyone have diagrams or anything on how these work? I'm all curious...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:20 pm

There was a very thorough explanation in Road and Track some time back, maybe in Tech Talk.
I don't know if it can be accessed online.
It is more clever than it appears.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:35 pm

gyre wrote:There was a very thorough explanation in Road and Track some time back, maybe in Tech Talk.
I don't know if it can be accessed online.
It is more clever than it appears.

I'm thinking the Maytag was a 4 stroke. It did not miss a beat. that funny looking flywheel was the mag and timeing. My Wizzer bike had a motor that looked a lot like the Maytag. I know it have tow velves. I was forever worpping the head.. I would build a sanding block and hone for up to a day.. Then tap out a thicker gasket.. @about 11 or 12 yrs. old..

Dusza Beben · Post by **Dusza Beben** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:04 pm

unjonharley wrote:
gyre wrote:There was a very thorough explanation in Road and Track some time back, maybe in Tech Talk.
I don't know if it can be accessed online.
It is more clever than it appears.
I'm thinking the Maytag was a 4 stroke. It did not miss a beat. that funny looking flywheel was the mag and timeing. My Wizzer bike had a motor that looked a lot like the Maytag. I know it have tow velves. I was forever worpping the head.. I would build a sanding block and hone for up to a day.. Then tap out a thicker gasket.. @about 11 or 12 yrs. old..

I'm pretty sure it's a valveless two stroke like the others but don't quote me on it.
I love this guy's OSHA approved engine loading method.
(Soon to be known as "Lefty")
[youtube][/youtube]

Would a maytag have enough HP for the contraption? They're dead sexy and I'd love to use one in my own future mutant vehicle.

DB

Zorch · Post by **Zorch** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:16 pm

Puttery chugady-chugady

I like!

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:58 pm

Iâ€™m not giving up on the steam yet. I really do think I can get it. When I said I was ready to throw in the towel, it was only momentary.

The back up plan Iâ€™m forming does indeed involve antique internal combustion. Right now Iâ€™m following up on a few leads and weâ€™ll see what turns up. I think something 1.5 hp or so would do fine. I worry about the maytags having enough to keep it moving, but the vehicle is geared low. Not sure its worth a gamble though...

Iâ€™m exploring on multiple fronts.

And I really appreciate all the support. Hopefully it wonâ€™t even be an issue, but weâ€™ll see. I think I'll know about the steam by the weekend. O-rings suitable for steam are on the way and will be placed into grooves turned into the pistons. That's the easy part... I dread trying to fit that thing back together more. It was tight, line-it-up-perfect-and-hold-your-mouth-right kinda thing.

And the boiler is getting some additions as well.

Details to follow sooner than later...

lonestoner916 · Post by **lonestoner916** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:09 pm

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:26 pm

I just stumbled across this link to steam car builder http://www.firedragon.com/~kap/SteamTopics/vagg.html

It may have more meaning to those engineering these things but looking at the combustion chamber it looks to me like he must be pumping air to feed the burn could that help Lechatâ€™s generator maybe with a stainless shield to protect the copper nearest the combustion.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:02 pm

Zulegoona wrote:I just stumbled across this link to steam car builder http://www.firedragon.com/~kap/SteamTopics/vagg.html

It may have more meaning to those engineering these things but looking at the combustion chamber it looks to me like he must be pumping air to feed the burn could that help Lechatâ€™s generator maybe with a stainless shield to protect the copper nearest the combustion.

Good call Z. keeping the heat in the chamber longer could give more btu with out adding more flame.

the best coil I have ever worked with was a German (karcher cleaners) the burner was on top and the blower was at the bottom. air came up on the outside pasted the burn down the center then back up between the outer sleeve and the center burner. the exhaust was next to the burner.

that's a fiberglass cover over everything oval burner hole on top.

the great thing about this cleaner is on full steam you can close the handle drop it on the ground and walk away to take a piss. you don't need to cool the unit down drop the handle shut off the power and go home.

Come back from a piss pull the handle and in 30 sec you have steam again.

the unit uses a pressure switch to shut down. so if the gun leaks it cycles.

wobble plate plunger pumps ever seen one? no crank for the plungers.

karine · Post by **karine** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:48 pm

Zulegoona! I was sorry NOT to see you at Bob's on Wednesday. (((missing you!)))

This "contraption going steam" has had lots of ups and downs this year. I still have hope with what IS working, though.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:18 am

Holly crap bat man, no breaks

Just assuming the three speed coaster brake would do the breaking of the axel.. Well big superise.. It's a free wheeler..

Quickly found a wheel and break form a razor type scooter.. Which I had laying around.. Reemed the wheel center out.. It slides on the axel with room for the break assembely conected to the frame..

Right now the whole thing is tor down for paint and reassembel..
And planing stage for the front axel. It will attach with a wish bone like the old fords..

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:26 am

I got head acks by the number

Troubles by the score

Each day it loves me less

Each day it hurts my head some more

when I think of Burning man is when my head acks begans

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:28 pm

And so I drinks some from a jar,

And ponders it some more.

Then bangs my head with a rusty bar

Till things donâ€™ t hurt no more.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:13 pm

hehehe

How's the steam engine coming along?

I've made good progress on rebuilding the drivetrain of the ship so far this weekend. Lesson learned. No more wood! All steel now.

Badger

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:23 am

WOOT!! Just got my invite email for the ship for this year! Full steam ahead!!

Badger

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:41 pm

WOOT!!! Congrats on the invite!!

Hereâ€™s how things have worked out on this end over the past few days.

I had another cone-shaped â€œinner coilâ€

Dusza Beben · Post by **Dusza Beben** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:04 pm

Hey, there's nothing wrong with a little fossil fueled enjoyment. The steam project is grand and the mere following of it has brought me a great deal of joy. The contraption will run under her own steam power, but it doesn't have to happen immediately. Hell, I don't think anybody hanging around here would mind manning the hand pumps! When it comes right down to it, it's not just about the stuff one builds, it's about the people you meet. I ,for one, look foreward to meeting you and the missus for tea! Steam or no steam, human or engine powered.
The journey is the destination and it usually does not follow a known schedule.

DB

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:19 pm

Dusza Beben wrote:Steam or no steam, human or engine powered. The journey is the destination and it usually does not follow a known schedule.DB

Here! Here! While I understand very little of the mechanics going on here I have been following this thread and enjoying your journey.
I love the comraderie of others offering assistance and seeing its fruition.

Still crossing my fingers for steam.

burnbaby

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:39 pm

Thank you for those words. Iâ€™m really struggling with the whole â€œgiving upâ€

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:51 pm

Don't despair, or even feel bad at all! I think the Contraption will be cool as hell with an old hit'n'miss! Yay! And that buys you time to get steam power properly sorted out... it's a win-win.
Hell, even a Briggs & Stratton would be good...
Old-timey sputtering hit'n'miss engines are exceptionally wonky!
Excellent plan!

lonestoner916 · Post by **lonestoner916** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:45 pm

**burn** wrote:
Dusza Beben wrote:Steam or no steam, human or engine powered. The journey is the destination and it usually does not follow a known schedule.DB
Here! Here! While I understand very little of the mechanics going on here I have been following this thread and enjoying your journey.
I love the comraderie of others offering assistance and seeing its fruition.

Still crossing my fingers for steam.

burnbaby

Indeed!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:52 am

Now to hual that pile of junk across country so the rest of us can enjoy it..

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:45 pm

So was curious and went hunting up some steam pressure/temperature tables (because what little I retain of the detested thermodynamic chapters of my mechanical engineering courses didn't involve steam properties) and was amazed...for those wondering, LeChatNoir has got a gigantic task here he's working on: to maintain steam at 55 psi requires 302 degrees F...100 psi jumps it to 338 F, 150 psi would need 366 F!! That's a lot of BTU's to pump into the water! Also, the steam boiler must have enough headroom to maintain the engine itself at those temps too otherwise it becomes a heat sink and merely condenses the steam back into water rather than doing work.

The more I look into this the more amazed I am of the work LeChat is doing. It WILL run, once the bugs are sorted out. Has to. The most impressive steam experiment I remember was from back in high school science class. Any of the rest of you remember the teacher boiling a bit of water in a gallon can, then taking it off the burner and screwing the cap on? As it cooled the steam condensed and air pressure on the outside scrunched the can practically flat. We also did the 'puff grain dust into a candle inside a can and blow the lid off' trick

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:40 pm

"For super wonkiness I dare you to have the hit/miss engine turning a compressor filling an air tank which powers your steam engine which drives the Contraption

"

(from a pm to LeChatNoir which he urged me to post to the public...dang now I'm aiding and abetting that addiction to contraptioneering, but the more the merrier!)

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:38 am

Tiahaar wrote:"For super wonkiness I dare you to have the hit/miss engine turning a compressor filling an air tank which powers your steam engine which drives the Contraption "

YES! That's a wonderful idea! Best of both worlds!

Badger

Dusza Beben · Post by **Dusza Beben** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:03 am

Le chat,
It just dawned on me that I have a Canadian acquaintance through another forum that not only engineered on steam engines but was involved in the restoration of a few as well. He knows more about steam than anybody I've ever met.
If you'd like I would be happy to set up an introduction.
He's not a burner, but I think he would dig the project.

DB

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:39 am

Dusza Beben wrote:Le chat,
It just dawned on me that I have a Canadian acquaintance through another forum that not only engineered on steam engines but was involved in the restoration of a few as well. He knows more about steam than anybody I've ever met.
If you'd like I would be happy to set up an introduction.
He's not a burner, but I think he would dig the project.

DB

Introduce him to this thread.. Sounds like he'd jump aboard

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:43 am

Elliot's Folly's are Saterday..

Hope to see him race Henery Ford Go's Surfing

Corvallis Or. Kenetic Sculpture Races..

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:48 am

Thanks, DBâ€¦ Iâ€™m never opposed to learning, so Iâ€™d love to hear any advice. Yes, please introduce. And if heâ€™s open to posting here, itâ€™d be a some â€œlearninâ€

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:50 am

La Cat, MIght tuck this in the back of your brain..

Instead of a feed water pump go injection.. Injection driven with the boiler stearm. preheated feed water injected may mean less heat lose than a pump..