Anything, everything & more........................

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:30 am

I agree with you completely. I once attended a Christian church with my aunt on Easter, and the man delivering the sermon was saying that babies are born into this world evil, and must be cleansed of their sins. This view made me want to be sick.

When held to the question during an interview Jerry Falwell said the same thing. Children are born evil and with sin. Unlucky enough to be born in the jungles of Zaire without being baptised, a six day old child who dies of cholic is on the fast track to hell.

Period.

Kinda makes you wonder... about Jerry's hateful little god.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:46 am

LaChatNoir wrote: Hello Cryptofishist... hope you're doing better.

I do okay. It comes and goes. last week, I spilled my guts to my Parakeet group--they were all quite sweet, and that helped. This morning we were looking at the space where her cage was, and now I keep thinking of the way she used to climb--beak and feet. What a sweetie. Even had a parakeet (and straying sea lion) dream last night. But they were all scrawny and I didn't buy any.

Thanks for asking. 'Preciate that.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:52 am

DM wrote:
Crypto asks if we can really do good..

I do? I think what I was after was the impossibility of ever knowing enough to be sure that "good" is in fact "good". A varient of the law of unintended consequences perhaps. Certainly an indorsement of getting off your butt and stopping philosophizing when you find it paralyzes you.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:57 am

Licentious Queen wrote: I agree with you completely. I once attended a Christian church with my aunt on Easter, and the man delivering the sermon was saying that babies are born into this world evil, and must be cleansed of their sins..

I certainly believe that some babies are born with difficult personalities, propensities towards violence, poor impulse control, and other quirks that could lead them towards commiting evil. I do not think those babies are born evil. They may achieve it, but they are just born with a greater capacity for that than the rest of us. If they are in a social milieu that pushes them that way, they get there faster. If in a gentler sociaty, they may learn in time to control themselves and fit in. Or they may leave for some place where their restlessness is less obvious. They may get into more trouble anywhere, but they are not "born evil." Those beliefs are deeply anti-human.

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:52 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Licentious Queen wrote: Those beliefs are deeply anti-human.

This is one of my main gripes with a lot of organized (or unorganized, whichever way you look at it) religion. It looses humanistic qualities and turns into a machine of sorts. The image that comes into my head sometimes is Pink Floyd's The Wall. All the kids being conveyed through the factory, brainwashed and uniform. Very scary.

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:55 am

Badger wrote:
Kinda makes you wonder... about Jerry's hateful little god.

Kinda makes me wonder where people got these ideas in the first place!Makes me wonder a lot...

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:26 am

"I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc. are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status." Jerry Falwell, USA Today Chat

Well, apparently Jerry now openly states that women are a monority. Now I'm just wondering where this guy's head is...

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:45 am

At some point in Pol Pots life, I am sure he had a lot of goodness.

cites?

<just poking>

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:47 am

what are you asking Stuart? I'm confused...

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:26 pm

I believe that Stuart is asking for citations of documented proof of Pol Pot's niceness as a child. He's also admitting that he's joking. I would not be surprized to find out that PP was already a piece of work at say 8, but I do not believe that he was "born evil" and I'd guess that he would never have "blossomed" to the extent that he did if we hadn't destabilized Cambodia with our stupid bombing campaign.

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:29 pm

thanks for the clarification. I'm a little slow today.

Drowning in a barrell,
-Lauren

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:29 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I believe that Stuart is asking for citations of documented proof of Pol Pot's niceness as a child. He's also admitting that he's joking. I would not be surprized to find out that PP was already a piece of work at say 8, but I do not believe that he was "born evil" and I'd guess that he would never have "blossomed" to the extent that he did if we hadn't destabilized Cambodia with our stupid bombing campaign.

Pol Pot was our fault?
OK then, what did we do to create Hitler?
Can't someone simply be evil?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:46 pm

Rob the Wop wrote: Pol Pot was our fault?
OK then, what did we do to create Hitler?
Can't someone simply be evil?

Pol Pot was not "our fault" per se. We did bomb Cambodia "Back to the Stone Age" as our oh so elequent R. Nixon put it as Viet Cong guerillas were crossing the border to hide, and the Khmer Rouge took advantage of that situation to come to power and get the population to slaughter each other. Hitler was able to come to power in part because he took advantage of the feelings of hatred that the German people had after the defeat in WWI and the despair that, in part, the Versailles Treaty brought on. Certainly, we bear some responsiblity for the direct suffering we caused. Certainly if you destabalize a country you create a power gap that a sadistic psychotic idiot can manipulate himself into. We certainly don't have as much responsibility for Pol Pot as we do for Pinochet. Ultimately, Pol Pot made his choices, Hitler made his, and Pinochet made his--as much as we chose him (or Kissinger et al on our behalf.)
And please--don't make me into a Straw Fish.

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:22 pm

Rob the Wop wrote: OK then, what did we do to create Hitler?

Create - NO
Fund - Yes

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:25 pm

Rob the Wop wrote: Pol Pot was our fault?
OK then, what did we do to create Hitler?
Can't someone simply be evil?

Ask Prescott Bush and his buddies. Oh wait....that's right evil helps evil.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:28 pm

Don't forget Henry Ford.

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:31 pm

Check out this site. The George W. Bush and Jerry Falwell pages are my favorite so far. SOOOO Backwards. Government and religion can be pretty twisted, man...

Licentious Queen · Post by **Licentious Queen** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:32 pm

Completely forgot to give the site

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/enemies.html

DM · Post by DM » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:44 pm

You know what I have always found weird.
We are supposed to have a separation between church & state right? We have laws disallowing religion to be taught in our schools and....right now I cant think of any more, but you know what I mean. Separation.

However, if you look at all our currency. Coin and paper. All printed by the Government. We see the - In God We Trust - quote everywhere.

Crypto - Yeah, sorry. Not sure where I was last night with that comment.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:48 am

>>currency

two things - the phrase "separation of church and state" does not actually appear anywhere in the constitution. look up the establishment clause of the first amendment if you'd like a better understanding of what we're dealing with.

secondly, the currency (along with the "under god" in the pledge of allegiance) was modified in the 40's as a result of the whole mccarthy thing. it was not percieved as establishing religion, but rather as distancing ourselves from the "godless communists". not our proudest moments, but also (apparently) defensible from a first amendment stanpoint.

if blyslv was still around, i'm sure he'd be capable of addressing this in more detail...

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:16 am

true,

the verbage is

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

but

Quoting Thomas Jefferson, the Supreme Court has stated that the Establishment Clause was intended to accomplish this end by erecting a "wall of separation between Church and State." Everson v. Board of Educ. of Ewing, 330 U.S. 1, 15-16 (1947). [/quote]

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:59 am

DM wrote:Rob, I just read your other post.
I think we have all seen enough nature shows to know that there is not a cheetah gang going out on the sahara randomly mauling springbock. I have never seen an animal not have a calculated purpose in what it was doing. And that purpose has always been for its own survival.

Au contraire mon frier. Ever watch a cat toy with it's prey? Happens in the wild too. Same with killing a rival's young. These are not technically for their own survival, though you could argue hunting practice for the former and genetic continuation for the latter.

But you could then use those same arguments for torturing other humans and killing off other races, couldn't you?

DM wrote: Rob - Is that you in the picture? Can you tell us about it.

Not me in the picture, though I have had a couple Avatars with me in them. I nominated the position to someone of Captian Loopy Boy to someone. When another asked for the position, I did a Web search to find "loopy"- and that picture came up. Someone actually dressed up as Captain Loopy Boy. I liked it so much that I had to use it.

I actually don't "clean up" that nice.

DM · Post by DM » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:49 pm

My sincere apologies.
Leaving out of the blue. Not nice on ePlaya although I am sure it happens all the time.
If you wanna play catch up, please play.

Separation - Church & State.
If it doesn't appear anywhere in the constitution, why the hell do we have this idea in our heads. Where does it come from? Curious.

Kitties toying with prey.
Its different man. There is no mental process happening inside their heads that, when transferred to an image, resembles an evil act. They act from natural, nature tendancies.
Kitty toying with prey is the same way it acts around the fuzzy flying thing. Its playing with it. No evil thoughts are internal to it.

Pick any evil human act - drive by shooting, murder, torture - all calculated acts. Animals do not have this form of calculation. Everything they do is a natural act. Even toying with prey. In their world, with their rules - it is not an evil act. They dont see the pain they are causing the prey like humans would. It is processed differently, hence it should be treated differently.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:14 pm

Arrrrr Hi there DM Mate-ie.

Glad to see ya back. Nice avatar. Arrrrr.....

(how long do we do this talk like a pirate thing anyway?)

DM · Post by DM » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:23 pm

Arrrrr - shiver me timbers - arrrrrrr - az long az we want to matey - but actually, i dont know....what you mean - this is...arrrr....the way I normally tak - arrrrr

DM · Post by DM » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:26 pm

And by the way - arrr - how many fingers am I holding up - arrrr

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:53 am

Separation - Church & State.
If it doesn't appear anywhere in the constitution, why the hell do we have this idea in our heads. Where does it come from? Curious.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson

DM · Post by DM » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:55 pm

sounds nice & clear.
I always viewed it differently, but now it makes total sense.
I thought it went deeper, but I guess it doesnt.

Maybe I should catch up on my T. Jefferson reading.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:41 pm

What amazes me about Politics and religion is how the followers of both will quote for each.......... and not realize or cannot figure out how to understand the paraphrase.......... “for lack of better words”........ Will quote from each.......... and take literally……well….take for example…..”you gotta “fight for your right”………and not figure out that maybe.............. you don’t need to physically fight ..........but mentally “fight for your right”………

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:16 pm

Politics and religion ........

Anything, everything & more........................

Sorry to get back to this so late.