eBikes and Burners who Ride them

[Token]

Ok, sealed Pb Acid, probably AGM.

AGM have a different charge curve than flooded lead acid like in a car.

Yeah, what folks said on voltage but if AGM, 11.6V is the magic number for discharge.

For charging, AGM takes a higher bulk 14.6-14.8V but the float is lower at 13.6V

[BBadger]

Absolutely true, but impractical on the playa. In reality you're gonna be out doing whatever, and you're gonna go until they die, battery life expectancy be damned.

Oh yeah, once you're on playa you're not gonna walk the thing home just to improve the battery's life expectancy for the other 51 weeks in the garage. Around town, maybe...

wow below 12v , ok I will have to get another set to charge while Im gone . They are 12 volt 15 amp , I need 3 of these and they weight about 8 lbs each. You cant put water in them , they are sealed.

I think when you charge them on a generator you're also only supposed to bother charging those batteries up to about 80-90%, its bulk charge capacity, unless the genny will be on anyway. After that it takes forever to fill up the rest.

Sounds like you've got a nice rig though.

[Soul Patch]

So... This was my 6th Burn, and first burn with an ebike. I arrived with 3 camp mates, and waited hours on gate road. When we reached gate our vehicle was searched, and our trailer was searched. My ebike was located in the rear of the trailer. I was asked how big my battery was, I informed gate crew that it was 1000 watts. I was told that no battery bigger than 750 watts was allowed. We were asked to leave Burning Man and do not bring the battery back. I asked if they could take the battery and let us through gate, I was told by a rather irate gate crew that they had taken many batteries, that it had become a nightmare and they stopped taking them and just turned people away. I asked where the rules state the allowed battery size and was told that it was in the Survival Guide. I pulled out the Survival Guide and looked for ebike rules. And there are no rules about battery size. I tried to argue that point and was told that it must conform to Nevada state law. I had no way to look at Nevada state law, so we complied and left playa. Fortunately we had friends that work in Gerlach and left the battery with them. While we were in Gerlach I was able to go online and check Nevada state law on ebikes. This is what it states.

Must conform to the definition of “electric bicycle” under Nevada state law:
Generally recognized as a bicycle
2-3 wheels
Working pedals
Electric motor, up to 750 watts
Top rated speed up to 20 mph* with 170 lbs operator
Does not include mopeds.
There is no mention of battery size. So we are required to know Nevada state regulations, but the gate crew enforcing those regulations are not.

I am not an expert on ebikes, so correct if I'm wrong, larger batteries = more miles, larger motors = more speed.
The rules clearly state motor size, not battery size.

I understand why ebike rules need to be in place. During the burn I witnessed several ebike accidents, ebikes doing 3 or 4 times the 5mph speed limit, some with nothing but a small head light and tail light. My opinion is that a great many of burners who were on ebikes this year do not ride bikes often, may not own a bike on the outside, so have little to no experience with bikes at all.
The ORG must come up with some clearly stated rules for ebikes, as next year and the years after will see the ebike numbers on Playa explode.

[BBadger]

Sounds like both of you, at the time, didn't know what the ratings to cite or conform to for your ebike (e.g. battery capacity vs motor power).

The gate person was probably referring to the motor wattage, but used "battery" instead.

On the other hand, I don't know why you responded to their battery capacity (?) inquiry with 1000W, as that is also wrong. Batteries ideally can supply infinite amps at their given voltage and therefore infinite power (watts); a watt rating is usually meaningless.

If your ebike is rated at 1000W, then the gate was right to reject the entire ebike for entrance to the playa. Just giving up a battery would have been pointless.

The gate folks definitely need to be better trained in the ebike nomenclature and policies to make sure only street-legal vehicles make it in. It seems like there were quite a few overpowered ebikes on the playa this year, probably because of confusion surrounding what is allowed and disallowed. Maybe some legal eBikes got rejected too.

Likewise, there definitely need to be better -- enforced and posted -- policies for ebikes in future events. The organizers may have been caught by surprise by the number of ebikes and their effect on the event. People were definitely going far over the speed limit, but it seemed like the wild west as nobody was enforcing speed limits -- if there were any at all (perhaps people think the speed limits only apply to cars).

[sharpstick]

(This an old thread, but even more relevant now.) We are in our 70s and volunteering for 3 weeks on playa. The last two burns we had PA kits. They were a game changer and allowed us to venture into deep playa. This year we have REAL ebikes.
I understand the objections to ebikes, but for older and disabled persons, they are indeed a game changer. The main problem is the few assholes who use them like motorcycles. They tend to be twice as heavy and can go twice as fast, and yes, there have been, and will be injuries because of this.

[Elorrum]

It appears the next step in any regulation whatsoever will likely require a participant death, or maiming. “Doing it wrong” only responds, in my experience of pointing out violations of principles, to problems they can either litigate or have criminally prosecuted. There is no instrument available or willing to really address the danger e-bikes pose. That it is a private event that CAN set rules and regulations for safe attendance, doesn’t seem to be a realistic expectation anymore. Catching speeders and removing them from the event, along with their ride providers, (same as trying to sneak in unticketed,) might spread the word. (What tiny percentage of attendees actually have looked at the main website? Read anything at all?)

Many of these vehicles are heavy powerful motorcycles, as large as, and looking like, 125cc street bikes, not bicycles at all. The motorized bike can be a godsend to those who need the help. Separating these from reckless joyriders is a well recognized safety issue that is not going away. So, I guess the ball is in probability’s court.