To anyone approved for an artcar!

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:08 pm

Unless it's really heavy, (like over 10,000 pounds) I don't think you need to use a gear reduction unit such as a 4x4 transfer case. If you're gonna use a car engine of some sort I think it would just be unnecessary weight and complication. My boat weighs 5000 pounds without people and does fine without any extra reduction.
I think an automatic trans is definitely the way to go on a mutant vehicle crawling around on the playa, too.

This is all assuming that you're just building it for the flat playa, and with wheels not more than maybe about 33 inches diameter. Otherwise, immediately forget everything I just said!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:10 pm

A softer torque converter could do it too with an auto.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:20 am

Thanks for the input, guys! Just the sort of experienced knowledge I can benefit from.

But I worry about heat. Torque converter slippage is a major source of heat in an auto trans.

So... driving down the road one day, I dreamed up a mechanism to engage and disengage a "stick shift" friction clutch with a simple lever. The lever would have an over-center spring, so it would stay in either position. (Hard on the throw-out bearing!) And the link to the throwout arm would be a hydraulic damper, like a steering damper, for smooth clutch engagement regardless of how abruptly I might move the lever. Other controls could be incorporated on this lever -- in fact, methinks ALL the needed controls could be on one stick, allthough steering might be a tall order.

It's a bit premature, but I suppose I could start a dedicated thread, if you guys are chomping at the bit to help? Warning: Construction won't begin for a long time yet. Too many irons in the fire already.

Edit: Oh, yes... this would be primarily for the playa, with a 4th Of July parade or two thrown in. And I think 3 MPH would be enough.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:41 am

"So... driving down the road one day, I dreamed up a mechanism to engage and disengage a "stick shift" friction clutch with a simple lever. The lever would have an over-center spring, so it would stay in either position. " Quote

You are describing the "mousetrap" clutch linkage from a Harley Davidson Knucklehead and some of the 74 (cid) bikes of the late fifties and early sixties.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:04 pm

[quote="Dustdevil
You are describing the "mousetrap" clutch linkage from a Harley Davidson Knucklehead and some of the 74 (cid) bikes of the late fifties and early sixties.[/quote]

Awwwww. I was sure I had invented something totally new -- something that no human had been able to think of since Adam and Eve.

Does that use a damper in the linkage also?

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:53 pm

Come on....we are talking Harley riders in the fifties and sixties. No stinkin damper here.

I have seen them added. It is called a mousetrap because because of the harsh engagement and the pedal would snap over like a mousetrap.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Silly me!

falk · Post by **falk** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:09 pm

Elliot wrote:...
Unfortunately, Kinetic Sculpture Racing Camp did not return in 2008. Main reason was that many of our key members were not willing to put up with the "techno" noise again.

Bummer; I was looking out for you too. (Wanted more advice).

We may have been particularly unlucky last year, to have a very loud camp across the street from us

Yeah, seems every year there's one sound camp that lies on its application so it can get placed in the middle of the city.

But... KSR has long been well represented on the Playa, and will continue to be. In many cases, you may not realize that a human-powered vehicle you see is "normally" used in KSR. The shiny aluminum viking ship with the flame-spouting dragon head is one example, and the three wheeler with the six foot tall spoke wheels, decorated with red, white and blue strips on the spokes, is another.

Those were awesome, especially the dragon.

I'm finally planning my first motorized MV. No telling what year it may be ready, but it will be largely scratch built. For propulsion, I'm thinking of snatching the drivetrain out of a small 4x4 and locking it in Low Range, and plugging the rear driveshaft hole. Any suggestions? Geo Tracker or Subaru Brat? No hurry. When the time comes, I'll probably start a dedicated thread.

Come check out this thread: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=27078

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:04 pm

Come check out this thread: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=27078

Perfect! Now I don't have to start a thread after all.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:28 am

It would be way easier to just put in a trans cooler if you're worried about heat than to engineer a lockup mechanism. If you really wanna know, put in a trans temp gauge, but my bet is that on a playa rig you won't have a problem with heating up the trans. You're only idling around.
If you do want lockup, if you pick an engine/trans of a type that a factory lockup converter was available on, you're ahead of the game.
But I still say that's all unnecessary, it'll idle around just fine.

Whatever you use, if it's electronic fuel-injected you'll be much happier on the playa. It'll run right at altitude, it'll idle without dying when you switch on lots of electric stuff and load up the alternator, it'll generally behave perfectly. Just bring spare everything so some component failure doesn't knock you out.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:44 am

Cap'n: That sounds like good advice. I already figured out the part about computer controlled injection -- that branch of modern technology really does work impressively well.

By the way, Kinetic Sculpture Race in Port Townsend this weekend!

uncle sticky · Post by **uncle sticky** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:11 pm

This year was the worst for us. We have a small car, but we've built observation decks on it so that lots of people can party on it and view the burns. We're always welcoming, but we definitely got the stink eye this year for not stopping for passengers. First, just because you wave me down doesn't mean I should stop. Seriously, I'm out there trying not to kill anybody who can't or won't pay attention to where their biking/riding, and I most likely didn't see you. Plus, I may be going somewhere and need to get people to their destinations (weddings, classes, etc), and if I stop every time somebody hails me, well, the people that got on first are screwed. Lastly, this year the weight was a real issue. We got bogged in sand several times, and had to unload and push.

I know that a few mv's out there do act as if they were exclusive clubs in the big city, but most really want to meet you and let you hop on. I already know my car is cool, but my fragile ego likes it when you get on and tell me that you're digging it. Just don't do it when I'm overloaded, and trust me when I tell you I can't take anymore, even if you, who have never driven the thing, think I can.

To anyone approved for an artcar!

weight issues