San Francisco Chronicle calls Burning Man on its racism

DarrylVanRhey · Post by **DarrylVanRhey** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:58 pm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 01&sc=1000

It's about time that BMORG's racism got some public exposure.

DarrylVanRhey · Post by **DarrylVanRhey** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:00 pm

It's funny how Marian will lie to people and expect them to believe her lies despite the evidence of their own eyes:

"Although diversity is being addressed in creative ways by some burners, Burning Man spokeswoman "Maid" Marian Goodell dismisses the topic as irrelevant in a short discussion laced with expletives.

"This isn't a white-Euro bunch," she says. "We're totally mixed."

But that's hard to tell on the playa. "

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:31 pm

I didn't see the part on the website when I bought my ticket that said only people of a certain race were allowed. My camp had people of many different races and some not even from the US, or North America for that matter. As far as I know, anyone of any race is welcome to attend, they simply need to buy a ticket. I have never seen anything at the event that would be seen as exclusionary to any race. Have you? Care to share?

Is there a particular race you have in mind? Any ideas why that particular race might not be represented as fully as you would like? Any ideas for you getting off your ass and possibly getting more members of that particular group to participate instead of sitting on the sidelines and bitching about it?

Now that you mention it, I have not seen very many Eskimos at Burning Man. Laplanders either, for that matter. Not many from Mongolia either.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:35 pm

I guess I'm kinda surprised to hear you take this tack Darryl. Not so much with your comments towards a member of the LLC but suggesting that the article is pounding the event as racist.Reading and re-reading the article I see nowhere that racism is levied at the event. There have been innumerable threads on the whiteness factor of BM on this and other boards over the years. The subject gets brought up, discussion ensue, theories get tossed and the subject then usually dies a quiet death. I think part of it may be that no serious examination has ever taken place although my gut feeling is somewhat aligned with Larry's quote re. white folks having a more fragmented community and see the event as an opportunity to either reconnect or become involved in a existant community that comes together once a year - if for only a week. Having said that I believe it's one thing to note the lack of minority representation at the event and quite another thing altogether to say that it is due to (or suggests) racism on the part of the organizers.

That's patently absurd.

Natural Man · Post by **Natural Man** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:47 pm

I grew up in a very small, very mixed community. I ran sprints and hurdles. Most of my friends growing up were black. I've lived, worked and traveled in Latin America for more than a decade of my life becoming immersed in the language and culture. I have a dash of Native American blood coursing through my veins.

My take?: There is bigotry everywhere. It's nearly always based on dump shit ignorance. Those screaming the loudest generally (not always) have issues themselves.

I honestly don't get it. Color doesn't mean shit. Culture is a far more "segregating" issue than color and I've seen this over and over again in my world travels.

I believe it would be a wonderful thing for Burning Man to become more "culturally" diverse. After all isn't this at the core of what BM is all about? But, please lets quit talking about color.... Shit I was closer in "color" to "black" when I left Black Rock City than many "blacks", hispanics, etc.

Just saying....

Mr.? · Post by **Mr.?** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:27 pm

I believe in what Derek Zoolander said, "Brent, Roophis and Mekus were like brothers to me, and when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers; I mean it like when Black people use it, which is more meaningful I think?"

This teaches us that you to can not die in a freak gasoline fight accident.

Mr.? · Post by **Mr.?** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:30 pm

"Hansel!!!! He's so hot right now. Hansel!!!!"

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:46 am

another "non-starter" thread.

Natural Man · Post by **Natural Man** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:31 am

Just another quick comment about "non-starter" stuff.

Yea! I agree !

If someone is really worried about the lack of diversity at Burning Man. But my point is that diversity is going to come from a cross-pollenation of "Cultures" NOT colors !!

I actually think there is quite a bit of diversity of culturs and ideas, but ALWAYS room for more.... People focus too much on outward appearances (color) rather than focusing more deeply.

If some is worried about the diversity issue then invite some people from outside your circle, whatever circle that may be.

In our camp we had people from Taiwan, South Africa, Canada, from all over the US. People from a Hebrew background, mormon background, various other backgrounds. People who spoke, Spanish, Portuguese, Afrikaans, Hebrew, Taiwanese, Mandarin and of cours good ole' English.... We had a great time !! But would invite even more diversity.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:12 pm

Personally, I think that we need to have more Canadians at the event.

Anymous · Post by **Anymous** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:32 pm

My understanding is that 18 generations back absolutely guarantees a blood relationship to anyone in the world. Most people in the states should find a common relative much sooner if they look.

As to camping, a friend tells me most "black" people don't like group camping. He used to camp when he was younger. He isn't a typical burner type, but he loves the pranks and jokes and I think he would love it. He won't go because of the camping thing. I know someone who goes through hell to travel extensively, but I don't think he camps. He does do things that are less comfortable though.
For most people I know, desert camping is a deal breaker.
I know a sculptor who goes to rainbow gatherings.
He won't come to burning man because he said it is too commercial.

From my area, burning man is 5000 miles roundtrip. It is financially brutal to go. It is hard to find out if it is justifiable to spend the money in the first place. ( It was for me. )

Maybe most people who don't go just have different financial priorities.
Maybe some people don't want to be stuck in the desert with 35,000 insane white folks. I know some people don't want to be told they have to put on a costume.

Just a few thoughts and hardly representative. I met few black people and more asians (Hi Benny) but the only lack of diversity I have a complaint about is too many Californians. There's your diversity problem.

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:38 pm

Anymous wrote:... but the only lack of diversity I have a complaint about is too many Californians. There's your diversity problem.

Well analmouse, I'd say I have to agree with you. It's those damn Cali-fornicators that ruin my good time every year. Them, and those fucking Seattleites. Talk about a bunch of self-important assholes...

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:51 pm

Sure, I will bet some of it is cultural. I have met someone locally at burner related events and she says she will never go. She grew up in a desert in the middle east and has absolutely no desire to hang out for a week in the dirt. She is quite familliar with ways to survive in that environment, but simply doesn't want to.

Come to think of it, when we go camping at plain old regular campgrounds we find that certain races of people seem to be represented to a lesser degree than others compared to their representation in the general population. Same goes with many other outdoor activities such as river rafting, just plain old hiking in the back country, etc. I don't think those recreational venues discriminate in any way, I think it is mostly cultural. There just isn't as great an enjoyment for hostile environment camping in those communities. It is there. There is nothing stopping anyone who wants to do it. I don't think it is racism. Just not as many in that culture enjoy activities like that. Fine. Who says they HAVE to? Who says we better bus in a quota of hispanic, asian, and black people in order to make the event racially "correct"?

Gate: Sorry, we have enough of european descent here today, you are going to have to leave unless you can find a non-european to bring in.

Participant: But I am FROM Europe, I flew in from German yesterday. I don't KNOW any non-European people here.

Gate: Sorry, that's just the way it is. We have to be fair, you know, so that means you need to go away. It's for your own good, I'm sure you understand.

Participant (dousing gate person with gas and lighting him) I came all this way to see a burning man and damnit, I am going to see one!

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:50 pm

I've met people from every continent except antarctica at Burning man. Racially biased? I'm willing to bet BRC has a higher percentage of "colored" people (blue, green, gold, silver, ...)than any other city in the world. Seriously tho, if you don't see people of non white races there, you must not be looking very hard.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:00 am

geekster wrote: Come to think of it, when we go camping at plain old regular campgrounds we find that certain races of people seem to be represented to a lesser degree than others compared to their representation in the general population. Same goes with many other outdoor activities such as river rafting, just plain old hiking in the back country, etc.

....another factor being that minorities are as or more likely to lack resources and/or free time in which to recreate.

The only blatant racism I perceive in the LLC's commments is in Larry's comment about "whites" being "isolated and distant". Oh, wait- I'm white, and 2000 miles from Home.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:58 am

DarrylVanRhey wrote:It's funny how Marian will lie to people and expect them to believe her lies despite the evidence of their own eyes:

"Although diversity is being addressed in creative ways by some burners, Burning Man spokeswoman "Maid" Marian Goodell dismisses the topic as irrelevant in a short discussion laced with expletives.

"This isn't a white-Euro bunch," she says. "We're totally mixed."

But that's hard to tell on the playa. "

Did you start this discussion just so you could reply to it?

By the first Monday afternoon, everybody was white. If more people of non-playa-color want to attend Burning Man, they'll FUCKING GO TO IT.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:42 pm

geekster wrote:Participant (dousing gate person with gas and lighting him) I came all this way to see a burning man and damnit, I am going to see one!

It's an amusing story with an amusing end, but ah...given their (read: Germans) track record, this may not have been the most tasteful way to end the story.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:31 am

Sensei wrote:
Anymous wrote:... but the only lack of diversity I have a complaint about is too many Californians. There's your diversity problem.
Well analmouse, I'd say I have to agree with you. It's those damn Cali-fornicators that ruin my good time every year. Them, and those fucking Seattleites. Talk about a bunch of self-important assholes...

Trying to duck out from under the allegations that it is you personally who is ruining the event? Shame!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:34 am

Pretty much a non-starter for me, too. It's a self selected group and there may be real (and varied) reasons among minority cultures that they select out. I suppose the llc could do more outreach, but as the outreach is pretty much word of mouth and magazine articles, I don't know what that would be short of having Larry interviewed by hip versions of Ebony and Essence. Maybe we can have a profile in Rice, too.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:53 pm

.

>> hack <<

'nuff sed.

bb

TheJudge · Post by **TheJudge** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:47 pm

-yawn-

there. I said something more anyway.

Rev. Terry Simon Scott · Post by **Rev. Terry Simon Scott** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:54 pm

Just for the record, there is no State of California; there is a Northern Cal, a Southern Cal, a Centeral Cal, and an Eastern Cal. Which California were you upset with. If you're going to hold it this close, were going to come.
Peace and Love
Rev. T. :)

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:21 pm

Well if you wanna get technical it's a republic and not a state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:09 pm

We its not really about racism, but Specism! All I ever see these days are humans. I remember the days when aliens were there not in great numbers, but the odds of wild crazy space orgies were about 1 an event. sadly those days are all too rare.

AIIZ

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:53 am

What is it with this thing? Every year some idiot(and yes, you are an idiot if you try to scream 'racism' at BM--don't feel insulted, enjoy it, revel in your idiocy) takes issue with the racial makeup of the city.

Why don't you ever see the reverse? 'Hey, howcome there were almost no white people at the --place name of currently big rapper here-- show? It's racism, I tell you, racism that keeps all the multitudes of white people who REALLY wanted to see this show out. Racism. Plain and simple.

And it's not just BM that gets this. Pagan festivals get it. In fact, any large congregation of people that has a preponderance of pale white flesh can be assured thar some idiot will level the charge of 'racism' at it.

Hell, I've even heard it about Dead shows.

And yet no one's complaining that there aren't a lot of white folks at the Freak-nik(does that still happen? in Altanta.

And the worst part is, in all these cases, no ones' telling anyone that they can't go.

So why?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:47 am

7 years ago I suggested that we make BM a "Hate Free Zone" as we did here in my city. It's a simple declaration that would silent the people are just don't understand our lovely little city of 40,000. We may just be a majority pegment lacking people, but its not because we don't go into inner cities to recruit participants.

AIIZ

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:04 pm

It's a simple declaration that would silent the people are just don't understand our lovely little city of 40,000.

Maybe change your name to Pollyanna?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:18 pm

Just when I thought this thread had died an ignanamous and not-soon-enough death...

Yeesh.

bb

________

"So long as one isn't carrying ones head under one's arm, things aren't too bad."

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:53 am

didnt gigsville address this problem at 1999 event?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:55 am

Can't Find "burningman.org"

San Francisco Chronicle calls Burning Man on its racism

San Francisco Chronicle calls Burning Man on its racism

Race is not a Scientifically Valid Concept

Re: Race is not a Scientifically Valid Concept

Re: Race is not a Scientifically Valid Concept

California.

Why does this come up every year?

uuhh!