Street Names - what happened to not using corporate names?

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:39 am

How funny that Burning Man Org. has gotten into product placement this year by listing Jeep, Hummer and other corporate car names for the streets at Burning Man this year.

Don't they want us every year to cover the names of our U-Hauls and other trucks we bring because we want no corporate representation at all? Don't they get pissed off when a camp lists a big name dj as a feature for a camp event because this promotes the dj? Isn't any kind of promotion of something that could be sold off the playa something Burning Man wants discouraged in this 'alternative community' where it's about our participants, and not commercialism?

I guess that's all changed with this year. If you think it's part of the theme to list a corporate name, apparently that's fair game now...

BMORG has really lost it this year in their approach to the theme.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:40 am

..although jeep and hummer eventually 'appear' as though they are brand names, they did not start that way. all the street names are 'models' of historic American cars.

big deal
where have you been?
this subject has gotten too much play already.

get ready to smile as you're riding your bike down 'D' street. I'll call it Dart and you go on strike.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:42 am

..hey! you could always try and burn the man early or something...in protest.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:30 am

The Early Burn was better last year.

Badger

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:34 pm

"..although jeep and hummer eventually 'appear' as though they are brand names, they did not start that way..."

Hummer and Jeep sound like brand names to me. If you look at the map for this year, that's how they are listed on the map.

BMORG has made a big issue of not using names for advertising at the event. If they want to be hypocritical and name the streets of their event after corporations, they shouldn't complain about a big name dj headlining an event, or corporations using product placement at various theme camps. They have now set the standard for advertising at their own event.

I'm just pointing it out here because that's what these discussion threads are for. Feedback.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:50 pm

nathan, i don't think you heard the point i made.

a Hummer is to GM as a Pacer is to AMC
a Jeep is to Chrysler as a Ranger is to Ford
period.

AMC and Ford are corps. Hummer and Jeep are models and now street names in your city.

I understand what you're trying to say. It's been said already countless times here on eplaya and on the main site blog.
go check out what Larry has to say about it http://blog.burningman.com/?p=2008

when it all comes down to it, Burningman is Larry's "art/expression project".
are you the type who tells people how they should express themselves?

Are the names of the streets really promoting the sale of these automobiles?

geez man. relax. why so negative and serious?

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:16 pm

Hummers and Jeeps are products for sale. Would it be alright to have a Hummer and Jeep expo on the playa? (even if the products were not for sale...) Obviously not.

Burning Man in the past has gone to great lengths to ensure that big name dj's or performers should not advertise their name at Burning Man. DJ's and musicians aren't corporations, but Burning Man has still gone out of its way to make sure that their names don't get listed in the "what, when where", or that fliers are handed out at Burning Man with their name on the event. This is because Burning Man has been designed to be non-commercial. That is one reason why Burning Man has been a successful counter-cultural event. It is specifically non-commercial.

Many people have had issues with this theme from the beginning. I did too. I decided finally to wait and see how the art and other elements play out to get a sense of what would be happening this year. I'm finding it as dissappointing as I thought it would be. You don't need to spend $300 and go to the desert to see giant Ketchup bottles, Hummers, Golden Arches and streets named after commercial cars. You can find all of that in every suburb of America.

And Burning Man has not been just an art expression of Larry Harvey's. It's been a community art event that he (and many other people) have facilitated. It is the community that creates Burning Man as much as the BMORG. If they lose sight of the community, the event will really start to change.

They have these threads specifically so that they can get feedback from the community that participates in the event. I'm pointing this out because I feel like on so many levels, the theme this year is getting in the way of the overarching principles of the event, and that's a real problem.

You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to waste your time in a thread like this if it's not your thing. But I do want to point out that I think the organizers have made many choices with the theme this year that have been a serious turn-off to a lot of the community. If the theme is annoying, hypocritical of the event's values, and pissing a lot of people off, the theme really isn't working. They should know this. That's why I'm writing.

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:29 pm

By the way, thanks for pointing out the link to the street name discussion. I'll start posting over there - I didn't see that before.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:52 pm

i hear ya.
i'm not wasting my time.

your interpretation of the theme and street names is very different than mine. many agree with you and many agree with me. some couldn't give a shit.

Of course you know that when it comes to "art and expression" no one is "wrong".

I'll say again, BMORG started out as three guys on a beach in SF. It is still their "art/expression" no matter how many folks work at the "org" or how many people make up the city. Some make a beautiful little sculpture and place it on the playa. Larry created the playa and therefor gets to choose the names.

You might not like that sculpture and you might not like the street names.
I hope you have a great time regardless and halfway through the week you forget the street name "debate".

nice talkin' wicha
crux

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:58 pm

SFNathan wrote:Hummers and Jeeps are products for sale. Would it be alright to have a Hummer and Jeep expo on the playa? (even if the products were not for sale...) Obviously not.

Burning Man in the past has gone to great lengths to ensure that big name dj's or performers should not advertise their name at Burning Man. DJ's and musicians aren't corporations, but Burning Man has still gone out of its way to make sure that their names don't get listed in the "what, when where", or that fliers are handed out at Burning Man with their name on the event. This is because Burning Man has been designed to be non-commercial. That is one reason why Burning Man has been a successful counter-cultural event. It is specifically non-commercial.

Many people have had issues with this theme from the beginning. I did too. I decided finally to wait and see how the art and other elements play out to get a sense of what would be happening this year. I'm finding it as dissappointing as I thought it would be. You don't need to spend $300 and go to the desert to see giant Ketchup bottles, Hummers, Golden Arches and streets named after commercial cars. You can find all of that in every suburb of America.

And Burning Man has not been just an art expression of Larry Harvey's. It's been a community art event that he (and many other people) have facilitated. It is the community that creates Burning Man as much as the BMORG. If they lose sight of the community, the event will really start to change.

They have these threads specifically so that they can get feedback from the community that participates in the event. I'm pointing this out because I feel like on so many levels, the theme this year is getting in the way of the overarching principles of the event, and that's a real problem.

You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to waste your time in a thread like this if it's not your thing. But I do want to point out that I think the organizers have made many choices with the theme this year that have been a serious turn-off to a lot of the community. If the theme is annoying, hypocritical of the event's values, and pissing a lot of people off, the theme really isn't working. They should know this. That's why I'm writing.

Ever think that's the point?

The slap in the face has everyone talking about commerce, cars, gas, energy, foreign policy, etc...
Just from a few street names and a "theme".

Now how's THAT for art?

Let's see you affect that many people with your art.

Badger

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:01 pm

word badger. word.

you ARE always right.almost

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:08 pm

thirt33n wrote:word badger. word.

you ARE always right.almost

*Bow*

Almost.

I am AMAZINGLY wrong from time to time.

*chuckle*

Badger

JezebelinHell · Post by **JezebelinHell** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:16 pm

SFNathan wrote:

Burning Man in the past has gone to great lengths to ensure that big name dj's or performers should not advertise their name at Burning Man. DJ's and musicians aren't corporations, but Burning Man has still gone out of its way to make sure that their names don't get listed in the "what, when where", or that fliers are handed out at Burning Man with their name on the event. This is because Burning Man has been designed to be non-commercial. That is one reason why Burning Man has been a successful counter-cultural event. It is specifically non-commercial.

But if they let the big name DJs advertise it would be much harder for me to convince large groups of idiots that Paul Oakenfold was playing at the 3:00 plaza RIGHT NOW and they'd better hurry over there. That's one of my favorite games in BRC. Don't try and take that away.

EB · Post by EB » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:42 pm

While I don't share his revulsion, the OP is right. Naming the streets after products which are currently on the market goes against the event's commodification principles.

What's to stop somebody from Hummer from parking a Hummer in front of a "Hummer" street sign and then using the image in a magazine ad? Sure seems like an easy way to get street cred with the tasty 18-49 year old male demographic.

And what would the BORG's legal response be? "No, you can't use that image of your product in front of the street sign we named after it?" Good luck with that one.

The thing is, I actually like the idea of naming the streets after American cars. It fits the theme, makes sense and takes away some of hippy earth mother bullshit taste out of my mouth. Maybe they should have stuck to older, classic models that aren't at risk of being misappropriated.

Jeez, this is the Green Pavillion all over again, isn't it...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:31 pm

I still can't believe anyone buys a truck named for a sex act!

I wonder how the trademark application for that reads?

If you don't think these are corporate names, use them on something and see how long it takes the lawyers to beat a path to your door.

If no company uses this for publicity, someone will get fired for missing it.

Gietzen · Post by **Gietzen** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:08 pm

Actually since most of these names were already around before the companies used them such as Impala- which is a type of African Antelope, and Bonneville a prehistoric lake in Utah, or Gremlin which is a mischievous mythical being, seems to me the words are public domain. And furthermore with the exceptions of Impala, Jeep, and Hummer you should note these cars are not even made anymore so tell me what are they advertising?

Or what the fuck do I know cause I don't see it as naming it after just products, even though when you boil it all down thats what they are/were, but also I see them as pieces of American history.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:31 pm

I can't believe anyone wastes their time whining about trivial bullshit like this! Oh my god, they named the streets after mostly old cars... WHO the FUCK CARES?! Get a life.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:36 pm

Maybe you could get some sort of filter to remove all the piss from your Cheerios. Cheerios cereal, a product of General Mills.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:05 am

guess what people, GENERAL DYNAMICS, BOEING, LOCKHEED, RAYTHEON, as well as GOOGLE, MICROSOFT, APPLE and ORACLE as well as many many others are WELL represented on the playa.

not to mention DARPA, USAF, and various SKUNKWORKS like teams.

it is a testing ground, and you my friends, are freaky little guinea pigs.

hows it feel to be on the cutting edge of the coming apok o' lips?

it's cool though, we have a jump on all of the rest of the country, we KNOW radical self sufficiency, we can do it in STYLE and have FUN while we are surviving...

pretty cool huh...

it's no wonder dr. phil zimbardo from stanford is there every year observing.

and he creeps me RIGHT THE FUCK OUT......DUDE, WHAT'S WITH THE MEPHISTOPHELIAN HAIRCUT AND BEARD?

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:14 am

it's also no secret that HORMEL, the largest processor of pork products in the US has operatives EVERYWHERE!

hence the 30% increase in the amount of BACON on the playa since 2005.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:44 am

Funny, Zimbardo told me he was there just because of you, Simon.
He always seems to have time to talk though.
He does ask me a lot of questions...

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:55 am

Give Larry a break, he's got bills to pay, too.
If he didn't go along with the Program, BM would have been shut down long ago.
Besides, if Doctor Z doesn't protect us from ourselves, who will?

Moving and drifting, deeper and deeper, more and more relaxed...

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:13 am

I think jeep is not corporate cuz they use a little "j" for it in the list of street names.

and what better H-named car would be more appropriate at Burning Man?? Somehow Honda doesn't seem to fit with the theme... I know , I know - not a model, but it was all I could think of.

AND

I'm going to get someone to take a picture of me licking the post at 6:00 and Hummer. Seems as good a time as any...

Gietzen · Post by **Gietzen** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:32 pm

how about the AMC Hornet, and hey AMC no longer exists but everyone knows Hummer but I'll bet few even remember the Hornet.

I am a sock puppet · Post by **I am a sock puppet** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:09 pm

They shoot commercials on the playa, don't they?

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:12 pm

yes, mr puppet. but not Horses.

Whores, maybe.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:14 pm

we had a hornet

Street Names - what happened to not using corporate names?

Street Names - what happened to not using corporate names?

two things