How to Fund a Theme Camp

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:00 pm

Blood, sweat, tears and toil. You will fight them on the beaches. Ask for dues if you have to.
If you stand in front of the supermarket and sell things, you will be mistaken for girl scouts.

HandJamMasterC · Post by **HandJamMasterC** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:44 pm

We ask our campmates for dues for the wine and champagne we pour, and spend a few grand every year of personal funds on top of that for camp improvements, not counting the normal expense of going to Burning Man. I would never have any money left over for another theme camp - we also support art projects and Feed The Artists with cash grants from a few bucks to a couple hundred ( each ).

And that's just the way it is.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Thu May 12, 2011 12:22 am

Since 2011 will only be our second year, we are still investing heavily in infrastructure. Our booze bill alone is easily $1k. Thanks to fellow campers, setup, teardown and camp operations practically do themselves.

I simply provide the necessary shade, games, devices, furniture, music, lights, power supply, website, evaporation pond and kitchen. Everything else is provided by camp mates.

We anticipate starting a little Retrofrolic-like ummmmmm facility next door to our house to help support camp costs. Offering certain features of the camp to our community year-round will hopefully be fun through the off season.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:09 am

Come on, get with the program. Kickstarter, of course. The best part about that is you can actually advertise it on eplaya to boot! What better way to build a fancy camp/art car you really can't afford just to inflate your own ego?

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:27 am

"Our booze bill alone is easily $1k."

Sorry. I'll try not to show up so thirsty this year.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:31 am

C.f.M. wrote:"Our booze bill alone is easily $1k."

Sorry. I'll try not to show up so thirsty this year.

No Complaints, just fact. Your stash is safe dear one,,,,, no worries.

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:59 am

Our dues have never covered the cost of our infrastructure, storage, fixed expenses, and so on. We begin every year at a deficit of over $2000 ($1300 for the storage shed for our Barbies, $500 for insurance on our art truck, $170 DMV registration for art truck, $800 replacment of decorations). We also amortize out the expense of our 5500-watt generator ($600 over three years), add another shade structure every year ($180), gasoline to power generator/truck ($250 or so), and on and on the expenses go. Glowstix, Otter Pops, wine, pizza for those who set up camp, rope lights, BDC&WB oval bumper stickers, tarps and bungies to cover truck and trailer over the winter, body paint, water and gasoline jugs, and so forth. The list seems endless. We have very low dues ($60 until June 1st) but with efficency of scale and refusing to "reinvent the wheel" every year we now have our costs pretty much under control. But our camp budget will still be around $5000 and you don't hear us whining or complaining or worse, begging money from people who are not part of our camp. Hell, some camps within our Village (Boosh: The Canadian Splinter Squad for example) don't even pay dues to us, but they have their own cost structure which they take care of themselves. So to echo what others have already said: If you can't afford to build and fund your camp, quit your bloody sniveling and suck it up. The rest of us do.

Post by **AntiM** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:12 am

I'm pushing for a separate fundraising forum, which would go near Regionals. That way kickstarter and fundraising parties won't offend our sensibilities here.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:24 am

AntiM wrote:I'm pushing for a separate fundraising forum, which would go near Regionals. That way kickstarter and fundraising parties won't offend our sensibilities here.

Personally, I don't find fund raising parties offensive or against the principles...they give something in return for the money paid for cover charges, etc.

It's just the kickstarter camp projects that I find offensive, and Minxy said it better than I ever could in the other post. Paraphrasing, 'usually when people raise money for non-profit causes, they don't get to be enriched by the money they collect, like being able too keep everything bought for their own personal use and enjoyment.'

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:33 am

The type of people who beg for money for anything are too stupid to find the proper forum, in my experience.

That said, you can't change the essential nature of Burning Man.

HandJamMasterC · Post by **HandJamMasterC** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:40 am

Personally, I don't find fund raising parties offensive or against the principles...they give something in return for the money paid for cover charges, etc.

Exactly. Fundraising parties are ( in my mind anyway ) a way to wake up your campmates and friends that may be inclined to support your camp and get things in gear. This year we are having three fundraising parties. They are the same pool party / BBQ's we always had before starting a theme camp. Now there is a donation bucket too ( and we make sure to get camp members camp dues so we know they are commited to coming ).

For large art projects though, I have no problem with Kickstarter - I'll be helping out more art projects through it before this years Burn - it's a great way to fund those types of things !!!

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:08 am

HandJamMasterC wrote:
Personally, I don't find fund raising parties offensive or against the principles...they give something in return for the money paid for cover charges, etc.
Exactly. Fundraising parties are ( in my mind anyway ) a way to wake up your campmates and friends that may be inclined to support your camp and get things in gear. This year we are having three fundraising parties. They are the same pool party / BBQ's we always had before starting a theme camp. Now there is a donation bucket too ( and we make sure to get camp members camp dues so we know they are commited to coming ).

For large art projects though, I have no problem with Kickstarter - I'll be helping out more art projects through it before this years Burn - it's a great way to fund those types of things !!!

Agree totally.

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:52 am

Well I don't have a theme camp. I'm doing my "Shot in the Dark" gifting out on the deep playa and some from our camp spot. Someday this may turn into a theme camp (oh I am full of ideas running around my little brain for this)
I am paying for all the shot glasses and booze myself. I'm not rich I work for a nonprofit and am trying to help 2 kids through college. It is not large scale but large for me. I think this is also a great way for me to meet others...

Okay I just wanted to toot my own horn

and remind you all to look for us out there, somewhere (we will be well lit)

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:25 am

lucky420 wrote:Well I don't have a theme camp. I'm doing my "Shot in the Dark" gifting out on the deep playa and some from our camp spot. Someday this may turn into a theme camp (oh I am full of ideas running around my little brain for this)
I am paying for all the shot glasses and booze myself. I'm not rich I work for a nonprofit and am trying to help 2 kids through college. It is not large scale but large for me. I think this is also a great way for me to meet others...

Okay I just wanted to toot my own horn and remind you all to look for us out there, somewhere (we will be well lit)

Ahhhhhhhh sanity,,,, THIS is the essence of what it is all about. Give what you can and have all the visions and goals you want. But achieve those visions and goals as ability provides. Working within your means is the epitome of self reliance.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:29 am

Trishntek wrote:
lucky420 wrote:Well I don't have a theme camp. I'm doing my "Shot in the Dark" gifting out on the deep playa and some from our camp spot. Someday this may turn into a theme camp (oh I am full of ideas running around my little brain for this)
I am paying for all the shot glasses and booze myself. I'm not rich I work for a nonprofit and am trying to help 2 kids through college. It is not large scale but large for me. I think this is also a great way for me to meet others...

Okay I just wanted to toot my own horn and remind you all to look for us out there, somewhere (we will be well lit)
Ahhhhhhhh sanity,,,, THIS is the essence of what it is all about. Give what you can and have all the visions and goals you want. But achieve those visions and goals as ability provides. Working within your means is the epitome of self reliance.

Yup!

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Thu May 12, 2011 12:04 pm

havoc wrote:
C.f.M. wrote:So, if a group sets a goal of $1000, and they only get $251 pledged, they end up with $0.
completely outside of the scope of the specifics of this debate - that's actually one of the things i like about kickstarter. if you can't get enough community support OR you set your sights too high, you have to go back to the drawing board and rethink your project, your budget or your approach...maybe all 3.

So there's going to be people who make donations towards camps and end up with a refund of their money. But they keep the "thank you." And I guess all the "thank yous" that don't get given out will be given away for freesies in BRC? Kept for next year?

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Thu May 12, 2011 12:10 pm

C.f.M. wrote:
havoc wrote:
C.f.M. wrote:So, if a group sets a goal of $1000, and they only get $251 pledged, they end up with $0.
completely outside of the scope of the specifics of this debate - that's actually one of the things i like about kickstarter. if you can't get enough community support OR you set your sights too high, you have to go back to the drawing board and rethink your project, your budget or your approach...maybe all 3.
So there's going to be people who make donations towards camps and end up with a refund of their money. But they keep the "thank you." And I guess all the "thank yous" that don't get given out will be given away for freesies in BRC? Kept for next year?

They actually don't charge your card (or whatever) till the number of pledges reaches the goal. All the "thank you" gifts get sent out way after the fact.

havoc · Post by **havoc** » Thu May 12, 2011 1:11 pm

mudpuppy000 wrote:They actually don't charge your card (or whatever) till the number of pledges reaches the goal. All the "thank you" gifts get sent out way after the fact.

right...and actually, even if a project reaches their goal, none of the backers are charged until the project officially ends. so it's not a refund...it's just not charged.

as far as the "thank yous" for unsuccessful projects...i can tell you what i personally am planning: there are some items (like magnets, knit stuff, etc.) that i've already made and have sitting around, so i'll probably give them to the people who backed us anyway, just because i appreciate their support...any leftovers i'll probably sell on etsy or gift for some other occasion.

as far as the stuff that doesn't exist yet...it just won't get created. i'll spend that time knitting stuff to sell or trying to learn how to work my $#()@*)$ sewing machine.

Post by **AntiM** » Thu May 12, 2011 4:54 pm

Turns out Burning Man does have a kickstarter policy:

http://www.burningman.com/participate/s ... funds.html

havoc · Post by **havoc** » Thu May 12, 2011 4:59 pm

AntiM wrote:Turns out Burning Man does have a kickstarter policy:

http://www.burningman.com/participate/s ... funds.html

that's been recently *ahem* updated...perhaps as a result of a conversation i had with them last week...

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu May 12, 2011 5:07 pm

AntiM wrote:Turns out Burning Man does have a kickstarter policy:

http://www.burningman.com/participate/s ... funds.html

Based on some of the projects I've seen, it doesn't seem that they are sticking all that close to the "policy". To steal a phrase..."meh..."

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu May 12, 2011 5:12 pm

jkisha wrote:
AntiM wrote:Turns out Burning Man does have a kickstarter policy:

http://www.burningman.com/participate/s ... funds.html
Based on some of the projects I've seen, it doesn't seem that they are sticking all that close to the "policy". To steal a phrase..."meh..."

Gave it a quick read-through (perhaps too quick), but i didn't notice where the policy is being violated. What part is being broken?

-Badger

havoc · Post by **havoc** » Thu May 12, 2011 5:13 pm

jkisha wrote:
AntiM wrote:Turns out Burning Man does have a kickstarter policy:

http://www.burningman.com/participate/s ... funds.html
Based on some of the projects I've seen, it doesn't seem that they are sticking all that close to the "policy". To steal a phrase..."meh..."

i can't speak for the art cars, but i'd say all the art projects + the one theme camp that are listed on the support a project page fall within the stated guidelines.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:32 am

So the org has a FAQ file on panhandling.

Is that news?

Bluemandrew · Post by **Bluemandrew** » Fri May 13, 2011 1:36 am

If you wish to start a theme camp just assume you will have no fucking money ever again...or empty space in any sort of storage vessel you have access to...

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:21 am

Bluemandrew wrote:If you wish to start a theme camp just assume you will have no fucking money ever again...or empty space in any sort of storage vessel you have access to...

Hahaha, funny and so true...especially the storage space part.

Age · Post by **Age** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:14 am

I might be reading that FAQ differently, but I saw at least one theme camp kickstarter recently that's definitely not following. Think it was the Bureau of Unclaimed Secrets or something similar. The bulk of the money they were trying to raise were for general camp expenses like shade structure, ground cover, and computer and sound gear. That seems to go directly against the paragraph below:

Theme Camp Projects
If your project is an art installation that resides in or is part of your theme camp, your funding must only go towards that project, rather than your general camp expenses. Stating this explicitly in your Kickstarter is a good idea.

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:44 am

Age wrote:I might be reading that FAQ differently, but I saw at least one theme camp kickstarter recently that's definitely not following. Think it was the Bureau of Unclaimed Secrets or something similar. The bulk of the money they were trying to raise were for general camp expenses like shade structure, ground cover, and computer and sound gear. That seems to go directly against the paragraph below:

Theme Camp Projects
If your project is an art installation that resides in or is part of your theme camp, your funding must only go towards that project, rather than your general camp expenses. Stating this explicitly in your Kickstarter is a good idea.

BUS does explicitly state in their Kickstarter what the K money is for and that none of it will go towards tickets and camp needs.

havoc · Post by **havoc** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:10 am

Age wrote:I might be reading that FAQ differently, but I saw at least one theme camp kickstarter recently that's definitely not following. Think it was the Bureau of Unclaimed Secrets or something similar. The bulk of the money they were trying to raise were for general camp expenses like shade structure, ground cover, and computer and sound gear. That seems to go directly against the paragraph below:

Theme Camp Projects
If your project is an art installation that resides in or is part of your theme camp, your funding must only go towards that project, rather than your general camp expenses. Stating this explicitly in your Kickstarter is a good idea.

yep, that's my project. i'm really fucking pissed at myself that i ever called it a fucking camp, because it's really just me and my boyfriend doing an interactive sound and art project inside a shade structure...which, as it unfortunately happens, is going to be sitting next to where we're camping. there are other people camping with us, but they're bringing a dome and all their own food/gear/water and aren't going to be involved in the art project. the sound gear + shade and ground cover is for the art project only...not for anyone to camp in or use for camp purposes.

from our kickstarter:

Where will my money go?

The budget for the entire project is around $4600. The biggest costs will be the sound and computer equipment, the shade and ground cover for the lounge and art areas, and the numbered tags that will give participants access to written secrets. We estimate these costs to total up to about $3000, so that is our goal for this fundraising effort.

Note: The $4600 budget does not include any individual or camp costs for Burning Man (tickets, transportation, food, water, etc.). ALL THE FUNDS DONATED BY YOU WILL GO DIRECTLY TO MAKING THE ART PROJECT HAPPEN.

also, our project isn't even posted on the support a project page, which is what those guidelines are referring to.

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:34 am

For what it's worth, Havoc, I thought your Kickstarter was properly done. It read like a grant application, and I never got the impression it was for a theme camp or anything other than an art project.

How to Fund a Theme Camp

Do You Have Enough Left Over From Your Camp to Fund Other Camps?

How to Fund a Theme Camp