The Land Yacht

Cleveland · Post by **Cleveland** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:23 am

Enough with the fake sailing vehicles on the playa.

Lets go with the theme and build something that works

Please help support the largest land sailing vehicle ever made.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/606 ... land-yacht

We are a group of jellyfish from San Francisco who are trying to bring a gigantic sailing vehicle to the the playa this year. While sailing is not allowed inside the city fence, it will retain a 400hp motor supplying all the juice to motor the playa with light and a 4000 watt system. Durring the day, we will head out to the airport and ply the sands of black rock desert.

Our Sailing vehicle is engineered to be sofisticated and safe, with many safty and redudant systems built in that set us apart from a notorious previous attempt at alrge sacale land saling. As a result we have received an invitation from the BRC -DMV to bring the Land Yacht, now we just need your help to make it happen.

Check out the Kickstarter and the blog for more technical information and to pledge to donate to help make it a reality!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/606 ... land-yacht
http://sailingdanceparty.wordpress.com/

Thank you so much, we are so excited to bring it this year, hope everyone has a great burn!

Bounce530 · Post by **Bounce530** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:19 pm

$20 bucks to ride it on playa, huh?

Cleveland · Post by **Cleveland** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:20 pm

Well, obviously anyone can ride... $20 will let you ride it knowing you helped make it happen!

Bounce530 · Post by **Bounce530** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:56 pm

Yeah...Another party barge closed off to the general public for a "private party" or dodging people in favor of the hot little sparkle ponies, or unless you gave $20+ to kickstarter, I'd bet.
No support from me.

Cleveland · Post by **Cleveland** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:58 pm

WOW you are really negative! Are you just trolling and being sarcastic?

There are many, many! other hand made and personal incentives to donate on our kickstarter if you prefer... instead of what i consider a small donation in order to show your support and ensure the project makes it out there in the first place! It is also a great way to get more information and ensure your presence on the vehicle!

The boat was actually designed to be public friendly, having a low flat deck, making it possible for people to climb on and off easily. And dance on it and around it when its stopped.

Dont worry about donating sir, I am just trying to get the word out about a project that we are working really hard on, and can't wait to share with everyone.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:08 pm

Bounce530 wrote:$20 bucks to ride it on playa, huh?

This was the main reason I frowned on Kickstarter for "private" projects that masquerade as art to raise funds; where the actual benefit is to the builder/owner or their camp.
Not saying this is the case with this project, but it sure struck me that way when reading that "incentive".

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:11 pm

Cleveland wrote:WOW you are really negative! Are you just trolling and being sarcastic?

There are many, many! other hand made and personal incentives to donate on our kickstarter if you prefer... instead of what i consider a small donation in order to show your support and ensure the project makes it out there in the first place! It is also a great way to get more information and ensure your presence on the vehicle!

The boat was actually designed to be public friendly, having a low flat deck, making it possible for people to climb on and off easily. And dance on it and around it when its stopped.

Dont worry about donating sir, I am just trying to get the word out about a project that we are working really hard on, and can't wait to share with everyone.

I can understand exactly how she feels...not being negative or trolling or sarcastic at all...just voicing an opinion that has been voiced many times on this site before. And I agree with the sentiment. Not saying that your project is "one of those", but that $20.00 ticket incentive can sure give that impression.

Whatever happened to the days that people built and paid for their own mutant vehicles or they just didn't have one?

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:59 pm

sails from your racing sailboat? purses and gee-gaws for sale?

hopefully your engineering is better than your spelling.

somewhat unlikely that old beater dodge truck has enough brakes to stop 4000 + square feet of sail in a 60 knot wind

do the turntables work when it is heeled over 30 degrees?

wings and human ballast? drunk and impaired burners do not act in an organized fashion like a racing crew

I hope and pray no one gets injured or killed.

you do have huge amounts of liability insurance, correct?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:30 pm

I'm done mocking people on the Kickstarter. Really. But I think the OP and his donors are going to have a rude awakening if his only land sailing experience is on skateboards.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:11 am

Durring the day, we will head out to the airport and ply the sands of black rock desert.

Are the airport people on board with this idea? You can't go into the closure area outside the trash fence, every person would have to have their ticket stub to get BACK into the event if the vehicle is stopped. Based on this alone, I have doubts whether it will ... fly.

And will DMV approve it? You've read this, obviously:

Wind-powered vehicles allowed in Black Rock City must have the following characteristics:

An effective mechanical braking system
A pivoting mast
Weight of no more than 50 pounds; an additional 30-50 pounds should be allowed for small trailers (in general, the vehicle should be easily hoisted above the head of the operator)
Operational only while operator is standing

and this:

Wind-Powered Vehicles NOT Allowed in Black Rock City
These vehicles may be brought to the Black Rock Airport and may be stored and operated there. These vehicles include:

Vehicles with a fixed mast
Vehicles in which the operator is sitting or reclining
Three-wheeled "land yachts"
Kite sailing vehicles (powered by a high-flying kite rather than attached to a mast)

I am confused about where you plan to sail, other than a very limited area.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:06 am

I got the impression that they aren't sailing, just using a motor.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:26 am

I can't imagine it being allowed at, on, or near the airport, "sailing", wind or engine driven considering it's size and the design parameters mentioned in AntiM's post.
you can't do stuff outside the trash fence, as far as I know.

and, I'm totally with Bounce........sounds a lot like the "sparkle pony patrol", unless, you "buy the ticket". And, even then, I'd bet you gotta be purdy........or connected.

I'm hoping that's not true, but, that's how it strikes me. Part of this, being the seeming attitude, that we "need" this particular project on the playa.

Time will tell, I suppose, and, if it makes it out there, we'll know soon enough if they are "all inclusive" or, just another SP/FB party barge for "the elite".

I wish you luck, though, in your endeavor and hope, very much hope, you do make it accessible to "all" as you say. (did you mention, or consider, if you have a "low, flat deck" any ADA considerations?)

Bounce530 · Post by **Bounce530** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:46 am

Cleveland wrote:WOW you are really negative!

Hey, did I just cross the line into being a "jaded old burner" with that post?

But really, this project stirkes me right off the get with the makings of another exclusive 'for xyz only' personal party barge.
I'm really getting worn on this whole kickstarter thing. It's already been beat to death on other topics, so I won't start it here too, but to come on here with your first post and your hand out makes you the troll. Trolling for money.

Yes, I know you offer other "incentives" but that whole 20 bucks and you can ride deal is bullshit, straight up.

"Hey land yacht, can we ride?"
"Sorry, gotta save room for people who contributed to my Kickstarter"

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:34 am

Provided the airport gate can be made wide enough, not sure I'm reading anything that can't be approved by those who spend their time approving or denying things.

I'm mainly surprised that $5000+ is being spent on an unproven prototype. Or maybe he knows it won't work as described, and he just wants a pretty party barge.

Does the BRC-DMV have a minimum in mind for percent-sail-assist for vehicles traveling out the airport gate? Or is it assumed to be 100%?

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:40 am

AntiM wrote:
Durring the day, we will head out to the airport and ply the sands of black rock desert.
Are the airport people on board with this idea? You can't go into the closure area outside the trash fence, every person would have to have their ticket stub to get BACK into the event if the vehicle is stopped. Based on this alone, I have doubts whether it will ... fly.

And will DMV approve it? You've read this, obviously:

Wind-powered vehicles allowed in Black Rock City must have the following characteristics:

An effective mechanical braking system
A pivoting mast
Weight of no more than 50 pounds; an additional 30-50 pounds should be allowed for small trailers (in general, the vehicle should be easily hoisted above the head of the operator)
Operational only while operator is standing
and this:

Wind-Powered Vehicles NOT Allowed in Black Rock City
These vehicles may be brought to the Black Rock Airport and may be stored and operated there. These vehicles include:

Vehicles with a fixed mast
Vehicles in which the operator is sitting or reclining
Three-wheeled "land yachts"
Kite sailing vehicles (powered by a high-flying kite rather than attached to a mast)
I am confused about where you plan to sail, other than a very limited area.

No mention of vertical axis turbine powered vehicles. I think that is an area that could be vastly explored and would be relatively safe from loss of control incidences with the inclusion of an effective clutch, brakes and good steering system.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:42 am

Definitely should be interesting to see the end result.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:45 am

For what it's worth...

The Land yacht wrote:Our Sailing vehicle is engineered to be sofisticated and safe, with many safty and redudant systems built in that set us apart from a notorious previous attempt at alrge sacale land saling. As a result we have received an invitation from the BRC -DMV to bring the Land Yacht, now we just need your help to make it happen.

Cleveland · Post by **Cleveland** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:28 pm

Alright guys, first of all lets be positive. We are just trying to have fun, include people,and get radical in the desert. Safety is also of the utmost importance as well as the burning man regulations, and we are taking this very seriously.

Id like to try and clear up the concerns regarding the "$20 to ride" incentive.

If I am somehow able to get my dream of a large sailing vehicle to the playa in any form, anyone will be welcome to ride it anytime that is safe. At no point did i consider offering $20 to ride, a ban of others. To be honest, I see it as a way for people to feel included and invested in the project. In fact, having brought a smaller art car to the playa for the last two years that could not accommodate very many people, we designed the Land Yacht to be something that more people could enjoy with us. I looked at the "$20 to ride" as a way for us to make sure the people that wanted it to happen enough to donate a small amount of money would get a chance to ride on it at some point.

While the argument of "what happened to paying for your own vehicle" is an easy one, consider this, would you rather it be not there at all? And come on, like we aren't already putting in way more of our own money. I find that for objects that many people will benefit from its use like our art car, splitting the cost amongst a lot of people helps make somewhat impossible dreams possible for everyone. Our racing sailboat? It's split amongst 6 friends and costs less than a car in SF. We aren't trust fund yuppies, we are artists, engineers, and dreaming burners.

To address the BRC-DMV approval.

As somebody duly noted, the mutant vehicle regulations prohibit large sailing vehicles from operating inside the city, which we also think is a good idea. The DMV approved and invited the Land Yacht with that in mind.

As far as how well it will sail.

It is a truck. With sails. There aren't a lot of those out there. We are figuring it out as we go, using our experience sailing and building art cars. We are going to keep it safe, and we are going to take it seriously. Things such as limiting sail area, adding and removing ballast, and limiting directions of sail off the wind, will all help us while testing the vehicle. Entry and exit to the airport and beyond, where it is stated we can sail, will be something that will have to be addressed. If it is as simple as keeping our ticket stubs, thats great, if its a more personal bottle of whisky and our ticket stubs, then better.

In addition to the eplaya the real playa also exists for 51 other weeks. If we get a chance to try and sail our crazy contraption another time when the playa isn't underwater, then that will be something that we get to look forward to as well.

All in All, lets stop the hate guys, offer solutions to problems, and don't worry about inclusion or exclusion. We are just trying to have fun, be safe, and bring something radical to the playa this year that everyone will get to enjoy. Thank you for your continued positive input, and have a great burn. Looking forward to seeing everyone out there.

P.S. my engineering is better than my spelling.

Cleveland · Post by **Cleveland** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:33 pm

motskyroonmatick wrote:
AntiM wrote:
Durring the day, we will head out to the airport and ply the sands of black rock desert.
Are the airport people on board with this idea? You can't go into the closure area outside the trash fence, every person would have to have their ticket stub to get BACK into the event if the vehicle is stopped. Based on this alone, I have doubts whether it will ... fly.

And will DMV approve it? You've read this, obviously:

Wind-powered vehicles allowed in Black Rock City must have the following characteristics:

An effective mechanical braking system
A pivoting mast
Weight of no more than 50 pounds; an additional 30-50 pounds should be allowed for small trailers (in general, the vehicle should be easily hoisted above the head of the operator)
Operational only while operator is standing
and this:

Wind-Powered Vehicles NOT Allowed in Black Rock City
These vehicles may be brought to the Black Rock Airport and may be stored and operated there. These vehicles include:

Vehicles with a fixed mast
Vehicles in which the operator is sitting or reclining
Three-wheeled "land yachts"
Kite sailing vehicles (powered by a high-flying kite rather than attached to a mast)
I am confused about where you plan to sail, other than a very limited area.
No mention of vertical axis turbine powered vehicles. I think that is an area that could be vastly explored and would be relatively safe from loss of control incidences with the inclusion of an effective clutch, brakes and good steering system.

That would be really cool. I've thought of doing some kind of large slow moving pyramid, where the wind turbines slowly turn the wheels, mechanically with some sort of clutch as a brake, so you wouldn't have to deal with electricity. Crawling across the playa would be pretty fun, to see a building that is slowly moving around all week would be pretty funny.

Major Krash · Post by **Major Krash** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:57 pm

worst case, it cannot generate enough power by sails alone except downwind without heeling over, and heeling over somehow makes sailing not feasible....in which case they have a powered party barge that looks like a sailboat...the powered sails alone is a huge improvement (and should also be considered as a secondary breaking system, just like turning into the wind is).

cool idea...

you might consider a vertical turbine or two for power generation. It would not net much power, but would impress the natives.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:45 pm

So while it's outside the airport gate, is it 100% sail powered, or not?

Foxfur · Post by **Foxfur** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:01 am

Cleveland wrote:That would be really cool. I've thought of doing some kind of large slow moving pyramid, where the wind turbines slowly turn the wheels, mechanically with some sort of clutch as a brake, so you wouldn't have to deal with electricity. Crawling across the playa would be pretty fun, to see a building that is slowly moving around all week would be pretty funny.

Now THAT is a seriously kickass idea!
I'd sling handjobs down at the Greyhound terminal to make it happen.
I'd want to shoot lightning bolts out the top and flames from the annular periphery.
It'd be awesome if it rotated slowly as it roved about.

Ff

(I'm serious about everything except the handjobs. They're waaay impersonal.)

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:09 am

Foxfur wrote: I'd want to shoot lightning bolts out the top and flames from the annular periphery.
Ff
(I'm serious about everything except the handjobs. They're waaay impersonal.)

OED's avatar sometimes looks like that, especially the one with the guy standing between the two cars

preparation-H may help

Foxfur · Post by **Foxfur** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:34 am

EspressoDude wrote:
Foxfur wrote: I'd want to shoot lightning bolts out the top and flames from the annular periphery.
Ff
(I'm serious about everything except the handjobs. They're waaay impersonal.)
OED's avatar sometimes looks like that, especially the one with the guy standing between the two cars

preparation-H may help

That clip is priceless. The world would be a duller place without stupid people to entertain us.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:24 am

Foxfur wrote:
Cleveland wrote:That would be really cool. I've thought of doing some kind of large slow moving pyramid, where the wind turbines slowly turn the wheels, mechanically with some sort of clutch as a brake, so you wouldn't have to deal with electricity. Crawling across the playa would be pretty fun, to see a building that is slowly moving around all week would be pretty funny.

Now THAT is a seriously kickass idea!
I'd sling handjobs down at the Greyhound terminal to make it happen.
I'd want to shoot lightning bolts out the top and flames from the annular periphery.
It'd be awesome if it rotated slowly as it roved about.

Ff

(I'm serious about everything except the handjobs. They're waaay impersonal.)

Snickers as ygmir zips his pants back up

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:20 pm

Sail Man wrote:
Foxfur wrote:
Cleveland wrote:That would be really cool. I've thought of doing some kind of large slow moving pyramid, where the wind turbines slowly turn the wheels, mechanically with some sort of clutch as a brake, so you wouldn't have to deal with electricity. Crawling across the playa would be pretty fun, to see a building that is slowly moving around all week would be pretty funny.

Now THAT is a seriously kickass idea!
I'd sling handjobs down at the Greyhound terminal to make it happen.
I'd want to shoot lightning bolts out the top and flames from the annular periphery.
It'd be awesome if it rotated slowly as it roved about.

Ff

(I'm serious about everything except the handjobs. They're waaay impersonal.)
Snickers as ygmir zips his pants back up

Foxfur · Post by **Foxfur** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:22 pm

ygmir wrote:
Sail Man wrote:
Foxfur wrote:(I'm serious about everything except the handjobs. They're waaay impersonal.)
Snickers as ygmir zips his pants back up

He's not in my chain of command!
Hell, he ain't even in my Army.
Aw fuck, interservice exchange....

Silly Sail Man, Yggy wasn't wearing any pants when he arrived! Ba-dum-bum! I'll be here all week folks, try the veal!

lemur · Post by **lemur** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:08 pm

this is scary

Foxfur · Post by **Foxfur** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:40 pm

Foxfur wrote:
He's not in my chain of command!
Hell, he ain't even in my Army.
Aw fuck, interservice exchange....

Silly Sail Man, Yggy wasn't wearing any pants when he arrived! Ba-dum-bum! I'll be here all week folks, try the veal!

I should qualify that. I really do like R. Lee Ermey. But he's a leatherneck. Just imagine what those mitts could do to a Fox

lemur wrote:this is scary

Get a helmet. I see a steep decline dead ahead...
(This is just like the funnin around in the army but without the biggots, homophobes, and article 15's & section 8's.)
All we need is a Klinger around here...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:05 pm

Foxfur wrote:
Foxfur wrote:
He's not in my chain of command!
Hell, he ain't even in my Army.
Aw fuck, interservice exchange....

Silly Sail Man, Yggy wasn't wearing any pants when he arrived! Ba-dum-bum! I'll be here all week folks, try the veal!
I should qualify that. I really do like R. Lee Ermey. But he's a leatherneck. Just imagine what those mitts could do to a Fox

lemur wrote:this is scary

Get a helmet. I see a steep decline dead ahead...
(This is just like the funnin around in the army but without the biggots, homophobes, and article 15's & section 8's.)
All we need is a Klinger around here...

damn this no youtube thing..................

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