Negative Burn

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
Bitterman
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Post by Bitterman » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:13 am

"WORST BURNING MAN EVER!"
Bah! Psshhh!

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calsur
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Post by calsur » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:38 am

Sensei,

You are Elitist BM Scum, wish granted.

Rob,

Calling you that was an attempt at Satire: A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. I attempted wit and failed. Its like calling Badger the ”little ranger”. I do not think that the guy I met at the Meet and Greet who goes into his stick about “migrating body hair” and has 2 bottles of worm juice is elitist or scum.

No Ouch intended.

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Tristan
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Post by Tristan » Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:19 am

Rob the Wop wrote:You must be listed as being part of a theme camp when you buy your ticket, and the camp must be on a list. This would force people to participate, think far ahead, and shut out about 70% of the Saturday 'frat boy' rush.
I disagree with that one. Many people are independent artist and they participate without being part of a theme camp. I will never want to be part of a theme camp, but I bring something cool to the event (see me sailing on this photo: http://moonski.net/burningman/bman2004/ ... urn_10.htm ).

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bullD
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Post by bullD » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:50 am

diane o'thirst wrote: Maybe it's time I set up a dome and DJ classical...
Nice!!! That would be very cool.

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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:45 am

as someone who brought art i can say i'll be giving a lot of thought to placement next year. not sure if close - where people fucking with it will be noticed, or far - where fewer people will get there to fuck with it - is better.

it made me want to never bring art to BRC again though, i'll tell you that.


art by comittee, yuck
btw, it's not committee, it's creative concensus.
if ya don't want to do it, don't. no one cares.
and for all of you, no, i have no brilliant ideas thus far.... i have absolutely no intention of being 'in charge' of anything. if we do something we're really doing it together......
surlier than thou

Flackmaster
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look for SMALL art

Post by Flackmaster » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:10 am

it doesn't have to be all big, expensive and on the center playa...look on the side streets and in the cafe. i have been doing my goofy little Twinkie Henge thing for five years; it cost about $10 and people seem to love it.

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jimbobby
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Post by jimbobby » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:09 am

why not put open playa art behind the city. It's ultra quiet out there. That's where I go when I want playa serenity time.

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bullD
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Post by bullD » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:31 am

jimbobby wrote:why not put open playa art behind the city. It's ultra quiet out there. That's where I go when I want playa serenity time.
Good idea except,,, except,,, well, I don't know. We have the right to ask.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:06 pm

btw, it's not committee, it's creative concensus.
tee-hee
call me baby

amaral
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To Much of the Same?

Post by amaral » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 am

This was my fifth and what's keeping me going is when I stand out on the far playa and look back at the city I'm just as amazed at what's there as I was the first time.
I still think BM is a blast and my experiences have been 99% positive but there is a general "sameness" about the event creeping in. I used to regularly attend SciFi conventions but it was that sameness that caused me to retire from them some time ago.
I have it on good authority that in 2007 there will be a total lunar eclipse during BM and I'm thinking that may be my farewell time at the event but I can't say this for certain.

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bryan koester
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Post by bryan koester » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:20 am

I don't blame the Org. (burocracy means power inforcement)
I don't blame myself. (I I make art,I leave expectations,I take care of myself)

I just miss the thank you's.
I miss the random hugs.
I miss the incredibly thoughtful costumes.
I miss the sharp witty art.
I miss not having to buy a ticket.
I miss just showing up with my art.
I miss holding hand with strangers as we walked somewhere.
I miss the passing comments of wisdom.
I miss the random flamthrowers.
I miss riding out to something I've never even imagined before.
I miss the quiet nod of understanding from strangers.
I miss spontaneous acts of happiness.
I miss the danger.
I miss the self policeing.
I miss discovering how to be a community.
I miss not being told but shown.
I miss learning together.
I miss being inspired.
I miss inspiring others.
I miss the adventure.

I will not shoot a ageing horse to put it out of my misery.
I will try to build a special place for all of us.
Next year I will try again.

But what I think would really work:
is if we started a new event. (like the regionals but less organized)
Not just a event but a community of event people. Year round events where us artist just show up for a weekend, put up our work and go home before the cops show. Everyone is self policing and responsible and there are no organizers beyond finding a space, setting the date and sending it out to the world. Like a beach gathering, or a group picnic amung artist.
In fact, anyone who is in the know can call for a event if they want.
No organizers mean self responsibility. I someone gets out of hand, the cops will hold them responsible. Just like if 10 people who happen to be camping next to each other and happen to become friends over the weekend and had a good time.
This would keep the events random and small (to get under the authorities radar) and each event would be attended by different people each time(since few people would always be availible at every local).
If the events did go ho~ hum, no big deal. Another one would happen in a month or two.

I hate the idea of abandoning the man. I has given me so much. So rather than not go, I'll just go other places as well.

That is what I think should be done.
If anyone else is interested, let me know. I would love to hear your ideas.
But I think I will just start looking for a place and date and then just announce it.
I will call it an ARTGATHERING.

Look for it.

oxoxo
fucko bryan

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:36 pm

Hmmmmm.... I think that the negativity we feel is the negativity we bring.

I was sick for the first two days of my event (Tues and Wed) and didn't begin to feel even halfway human until Thurs. night. Then, at three AM Friday morning, ten yahoo's moved in across the road from me, set up their stereo, and began blasting their music directly at my camp. I managed to cross swords with them several times before I left Sunday morning, and none of it was pleasant.

Did I have a good Burn? FUCKIN' A RIGHTS, I DID!!!!!! Why? Because I decided that I was having a good Burn. Did I let the yahoos ruin it for me? Almost... But, I am in charge of my emotions, not them.

For those that are quiting... I respect that... it's your choice.

For those coming back next year... I hope to be there too... but with a baseball bat this time...

and I have the utmost respect for Rob. The man has his head screwed on straight and knows whereof he speaks. And Calsur is right; that was some kickass art in a green bottle that Rob brought for us... I would sure hate to see that gone from the playa...

More later on the Art, too. Time to go home.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:18 pm

diane o'thirst wrote: The point about the wartime economy was well-taken. I just don't buy the cynicism that war is good for business: it never has been. How many of us have the income we did four years ago?
Dang, I was sure that that spike in gas prices we had May, June this year was going to cut down on attendence, but maybe it hit the amount of disposable income for interactive art instead.

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:15 pm

Hi... I made it home... now, where was I? Oh, yeah... the art...

Let me preface by saying I didn't bring any art to B'Man. I didn't know! I was just another clueless newbie, wandering around trying to figure out what the fuck was going on. It wasn't until the solitude of the 10 hour drive back home that I realized that I could actually make art that would make a statement on the playa... but I kept thinking "Fuck! That's gonna' cost a lot!! How the hell am I gonna' do that?" Then I read Rob's postings and the "Duh..." light went off. Do it the way the originals out there did it, on the cheap, but with love and vision.

Now, I am not an artist (except for theatre, but that's another story) but I can visualize like a sonofabitch... and, with several others, working together, I know that I can contribute art that will say something to others. After all, that (to me) is what art is: a symbolic communication of a person's (or commitee's) vision of something (concept, idea, universe, carrot, whatever). That is doable!

Maybe I'm too fucking optimistic, but I intend to actually bring something to the Playa next year that will add to the event whether it is received well or not. I mean, isn't The Man himself disposable art?? A big ol' thingy out in the middle of the desert that is just there, whether anybody gives a shit or not, and then is given the ultimate send off? Can we aspire to anything less?

I don't know if there was less art there for my enjoyment than there was in previous years 'cause this was my first burn, but I do know there is going to be one more piece for me to enjoy next year: mine. And I will go next year (I hope, I hope, I hope!!!) with no expectations of any kind, except to just put something up for the community.

Negative is easy... It's finding the path through the bullshit to the solution that is difficult.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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bullD
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Post by bullD » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:17 pm

samtzu wrote:Hmmmmm.... I think that the negativity we feel is the negativity we bring.

Did I have a good Burn? FUCKIN' A RIGHTS, I DID!!!!!! Why? Because I decided that I was having a good Burn.
ehhh, WORD!!!!!!

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:28 pm

Hey Brya,

Thanks for that thoughtful post.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:28 pm

Bryan I meant...

Anthony Bondi
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Then is now

Post by Anthony Bondi » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:06 pm

Bring art, participate, and you will be royally rewarded, same as it ever was. I had to get home and find time for the eplaya to discover what I was too busy (with my own project) to see on the playa, that apparently lots of people didn't bring art this year. The number of people on ths board who were fresh to the playa and have made the connection seems like about a normal proportion from among new visitors to the playa. Here's a thought to hold in mind: Those people who decide BRC is simply a party zone make it (for them) just like what they can find at home. For how many years will such people go to the trouble to return to a place that they perceive to be just like home? Maybe two years, and such people are out of here (BRC). This isn't to say that BRC is going to exhaust the number of potential party-dog visitors, but, they are not the same people from year to year. The party dogs move on and the participants grow BRC roots.

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cowboyangel
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:23 pm

a negative burn....ummmmmmmm let me see.....is that where the whole burn unravels backwards like rewinding the videotape?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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cowboyangel
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:24 pm

or is it simple color reversal?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

Anthony Bondi
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Big art

Post by Anthony Bondi » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:24 pm

For people who missed epic playa art this year, I recommend the new book, "This is Burning Man" a good portion of which consists of interviews with artists who created some of the best memorable epic playa pieces. Dan Das Mann's interview is particularly good on this subject. You might keep a running track as you read of these pieces of how may of them didn't work, despite Herculean efforts on the part of crews of artists to make them work. This year, someone told me they saw the diving piece in operation that I never saw lit, the Vortex was built and then disassembled in favor of a smaller version of the piece being presented, the metal pyro-looking garden between the Man and the temple looked to me to have been constructed and demolished without ever having reached its planned fruition. This seemed about normal in terms of projects being eaten by the playa. The point is, if you've seen these projects, just as you've seen BRC on a regular basis, it may seem the effort involved in producing BRC is not extraordinary. It is. To think, "I see three such pieces last year, therefor I expect there will be four of them this year," is to profoundly misunderstand what is involved in the production of such pieces. What is most extraordinary is that there were ever any such pieces brought to the playa. If smaller pices become more of the norm, enjoy these.

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:30 pm

Cowboy, I saw the Diving Man and it was astounding. When the stobe and the rotations were synced (sp?) it was an amazing piece. A man appearing out of nowhere, diving into the solid playa. Didn't get the artist's name (was having trouble with my own at the time) but he did a wonderful job. I don't know if I would have been satisfied with just that piece, but that one did satisfy me at the time.

Now, if it had been a giant Woodrow diving into the playa... well, that would have been something!
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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cowboyangel
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:40 pm

samtzu wrote:Cowboy, I saw the Diving Man and it was astounding. When the stobe and the rotations were synced (sp?) it was an amazing piece. A man appearing out of nowhere, diving into the solid playa. Didn't get the artist's name (was having trouble with my own at the time) but he did a wonderful job. I don't know if I would have been satisfied with just that piece, but that one did satisfy me at the time.

Now, if it had been a giant Woodrow diving into the playa... well, that would have been something!
next year Sam...good concept......
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:03 pm

Yup... Lignam into the Yoni... Shiva into Shakti...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Iago
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Post by Iago » Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:17 pm

Fuck this was the best Burn ever, my buddy that I went to Vietnam with and almost got wasted (that means death to you civilians, your legs blown off and bleed to death on a jungle floor) brought me a Honda Trail 90 motocycle that they were not going to let him bring through the gate with, too long of a story to tell here...

Anyway, I am a 7 year veteran and my whole goal is to create the shittiest work of art I can think of and someone always eventually comes by and takes a picture of it and thanks me for doing it...

My goal for next year is to make an even shittier piece of art. Believe me it is not as easy as you may think!

It's only supposed to be a camping trip in the desert isn't it?

Oh Ya, what I saw different this year was less open camps to the streets. Seemed like more shut in type camps with a wall of RV's around them. Anyway 'fuck 'em, won't ever stop me from having a good time and besides at night they have big tires to piss on so it won't hit the playa...

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echohaus
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Post by echohaus » Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:56 pm

Well, here's my two cents (worth exactly that)...

This was my first burn. I went with friends who had '03 as their first; for the most part, they'd been 'prepped' for it by a long-time friend of theirs who's on his 7th or 8th burn. My ticket was a birthday gift from them, and it was--in part--an expression of their gratitude for my contributing a severe amount of help in their art car construction. Our art car was the globe-ish/saucer-like frame with cloth side and roof panels that had a semi-circular bench for chatting and an on-board mister system fed by six springwater bottles. No bar. Many people thanked us for providing a calm place to ride; we were more than happy to shuttle several burners around as needed. Back in June, I almost died on it while giving it a test drive; the seat broke, and I was thrown from the platform onto the street, head first. So, in a way, the ticket was also a "healing".

I have to say that I can agree with both sides of the "positive/negative" thing going on here, although I'm surprised that a community that condones togetherness seems to spend an inordinate amount of time bickering. While I had a great time, there were a couple of things that really steamed my grumpus, such as the uber-feminist who ran her bike into my leg at Critical Tits, screaming about pictures and drawing blood from my shin, when my camera wasn't even on or pointed anywhere except down (same nutjob is probably the first in line at war protests, condemning violence. Go figure.), and the incessant "nnh-sst nnh-sst nnh-sst nnh-sst" of the laughingly empty rave clubs. Only on occasion, when all the clubs seemed to synchronize in the middle of the playa, did it sound kinda cool. The steady dust storm throughout Tuesday and Wednesday didn't help much...sitting in the shade structure, twiddling thumbs 'cuz ya can't do much except sleep or drink (breathing is a luxury...). And people really need to learn how to ride bicycles, goddammit. If you wouldn't drive a car like that, don't drive a bike like that, idiot. Some things in life are free, attention isn't one of them.

The positives? Well, hell...I had GREAT neighbors, mostly older folk who were considerate, generous, giving, funny, loving people and whom I think about everyday, and some younger sorts--some with kids--who were a real treat to have around; I enjoyed the art (and am dismayed to hear that there was much more of it in previous years. Just my luck.); Met some really great people while out and about; Received many wearable gifts, and in doing so experienced a taste of what I glean is about the original nature of the thing. Also got a nice smattering of a little 'pay it forward' action...bought a charmingly odd fellow by the name of Mercury a cup of coffee on Tuesday morning (because I overheard him telling someone he didn't have the cash), and was gifted a fresh latte' by a total stranger on Sunday morning.
Got accustomed to topless women within ten minutes; paid no mind to most of them, but did see some absolute lookers in the "overall" department; couple of surprise kisses gifted my way didn't hurt, either. Saw and heard some truly funny shit. Got a lot of bike-riding in, experienced a lot of space. Did a lot of recycling. Fed a handful of people. Got away from the news for a whole week. Telephone rings, too. Got some time to clear my head. Got some self-reliance going, which was good. Got some nice pictures and video, sound. Didn't dream at all while I was there...slept hard every night. Was complimented a number of times by dropped jaws when I told people I was a first-timer...most said something along the lines of "You sure don't act like one!" So, in many regards, I'd like to think I did my part beforehand to make sure I didn't stick out or fuck up.

Do I want to go back? Initially, yeah...but I'm finding room for second thoughts every time I read the eplaya. Some nasty shit happens out there, and thusly, in here. I can see where the weekenders/frat boys/freeloaders really stuff a turd in your experience. Like some, I can see where it's headed already, and don't want to deal with it again. Like someone else, though--Sputnik (who's avatar I thought was a picture of me for a moment!)--I came away from the art going "Fuck yeah...I want to do an installation next year!" I had already started conceptualizing art cars for next year before this one was even finished; by the time Thursday rolled around, my brain was boiling. Theme camps interest me, too, and as our group is pretty much a 'reduce/reuse/recycle' mindset, I'm sure we'll have a great time budgeting for next year.
As long as we can get some semblance of calm out in the suburbs--we were at about 4:15 and Pluto--it should be manageable. Less overnight rave would be good, too. We may have gotten lucky this year, camp placement and all, judging from the griping going on here.

I do agree that the future of BM is truly up to us; if figures like Rob The Wop give up, then someone else has to take the reins, or it ends up becoming a greyed-out bastion of mediocrity, just like most everything else in the default.
I like the idea of closing the gates on Wednesday (say, midnight). If that were to occur, I don't think there'd be a need for ticket sales caps. It'd be 'self-capping', then. And silence zones are good, too.

Still up in the air about returning.

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:21 pm

I would not say that "the community" spends a lot of time bickering. There were 35,000 people at BRC this year and probably a hundred or two have even read this thread. I wouldn't paint the entire community with an e-playa brush. Matter of fact, I was at a regional event last night and not a single person I asked answered in the affirmative when asked if they were on e-playa.

I have been spending a lot of time here basically because I just discovered it. I knew it was here but never paid any attention to it. I will get it all out of my system in a few days I am sure.

It is NICE for people that had a bad experiance to have a place to vent their frustrations and disappointments and I would expect there to be more rants than raves because people that had a GOOD time feel no need to vent.

My issue, though, is with people who rant about something as if they are expecting someone ELSE to do something to fix it. Screw that.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.

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Rob the Wop
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Post by Rob the Wop » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:47 pm

Huge Amen to Samztu (love the tribute to Talk Like A Pirate Day, BTW).

Big art doesn't have to be good. Anyone can do art. If everyone brought something to show- Burning Man would be absolutely amazing. This is the spirit that is disappearing. Bring it back buddy, don't wait til the question becomes "So what art is BMORG going to sponser this year?" Get the mind think to "So what art are me and/or my buddies going to bring this year?"

I think you grok.
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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dj big E
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Lmao

Post by dj big E » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:58 pm

Fire Fire Fire :twisted:

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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:26 am

I'm holding out hope. That's why I'm coming back next year. I've got a theory that the reason there was so little art this year was because of the high First-Timers quotient coupled with the gas crunch a few months back.

That's not to say it's a bad thing. New blood is always good. Every Freshman Burner I've talked to this year — and there's been a good number of them — came back from the Burn with a belly full of passion and inspiration that frankly refired my enthusiasm. And the gas crunch didn't keep people from coming, but it must have cut into a few art budgets.

So! 2004: 17,000+ newbies, not much art, millions of rave camps and bars-on-wheels, maybe it's a wake-up call to us veterans. Getcher asses together, go out there and kick artistic/creative ass on a shoestring! Tap into Freecycle, go on a dumpster-diving expedition, go out to the woods or the beach and collect natural stuff and put something together with it. So what if it fits the theme or not, just CREATE! Let the theme artists get their grants and make something with the ORG's money, but you don't need a grant. Just the vision, the will and a bit of creative savvy.

<i><b>If you want to view Paradise, simply look around and do it/Anything you want to, do it/Want to change the world? There's nothing to it.</i></b>

Remember: MacGuyver.
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