How to take over a theme camp

[itaintwhatitseems]

If I think my camp boss is being too greedy and not adhering to the principles of BM (i.e. he's just in it for the money) what would be the best way of outing him/them or taking over the camp?

Would informing BM management even be worthwhile? I ask b/c if BM didn't give said camp placement then it is essentially dissolved.

And recruiting everyone to a new camp doesn't seem realistic as most people don't seem to mind if camp boss is making $150-$200 off each member (AFTER EXPENSES) and running the camp like a Mcdonalds or even worse - a for profit business with mostly VOLUNTEER LABOR.

And that's really what gets me

[Elderberry]

Since you are the only person that is unhappy with the situation, the solution seems obvious.

[itaintwhatitseems]

Since you are the only person that is unhappy with the situation, the solution seems obvious.

It's not so much it doesn't bother other people as most just don't think it is that much money but when multiplied by 130 people you start getting into some big numbers here - about $20,000.

That's $20k that COULD be making BM a better experience but instead is going into someone's greedy pocket - and I did say the camp is mostly run by unpaid VOLUNTEERS.

[itaintwhatitseems]

Just kind-of thinking out loud here I'm planning to (a) inform BM of the situation and ask that the camp be put on some kind of probation until the issue is resolved (b) put a plan together to form a new camp without the upper management from the old camp based on BM principles (I'm not sure if this will work as the theme camp does has a strong franchise) basically most people dont want to be "kicked out" but to leave for a new camp may be a different matter

But the "franchise" is pretty strong at this point. They sell their own clothing line (jackets, t-shirts, ect) with their brand, that's why it would be a lot easier in "the man" would step in on this one and put some kind of leash on the boss???

[maladroit]

Jeez. ALL of this is actually happening in default world, nowhere near the playa, in a commercial context. If the theme camp as implemented on-playa is meeting goals and cleaning up after themselves, BMORG has no reason to be involved. Imagine the shitstorm if they ever DID show an interest in camp drama tattling.

Leave the camp, inform as many members as you can of your opinions, then let them decide.

[Eric]

And recruiting everyone to a new camp doesn't seem realistic as most people don't seem to mind if camp boss is making $150-$200 off each member (AFTER EXPENSES) and running the camp like a Mcdonalds or even worse - a for profit business with mostly VOLUNTEER LABOR.

And that's really what gets me

JK is correct - if you don't like what your dues are going towards, leave the camp. What they do or don't do with the members money isn't the LLC's concern, nor is what they do off-playa (unless they are marketing off of the Burning Man name, not their own). If the other members are fine with it, then you are the one who should leave.

[itaintwhatitseems]

JK is correct - if you don't like what your dues are going towards, leave the camp. What they do or don't do with the members money isn't the LLC's concern, nor is what they do off-playa (unless they are marketing off of the Burning Man name, not their own). If the other members are fine with it, then you are the one who should leave.

But if the camp is not adhering to BM principles then it really should be the BORG's concern.

I know I can leave and I can probably convince a few other people BUT to be realistic their FRANCHISE took years to build - I'm probably not going to be able to convince all or even most of the 130 or so members to leave b/c the camp boss is being greedy and pocketing most of the money.

The easiest solution would be for BM to have a yearly audit and when things are REALLY out of whack (like net profit in the 50-60% range) to place said camp on some kind of probation. If the "franchise" is in real jeopardy it will change and not getting placement is the best way to do that

[Savannah]

A yearly audit of 1,000 placed theme camps does not actually sound very easy at all. However, you're welcome to send your thoughts to [email protected] before November 1st. ePlaya is not really the best place to have your concerns heard--write in, instead.

Size of profit margin is not currently a criteria on which theme camps are judged. This is the current criteria.
http://www.burningman.com/themecamps/th ... teria.html

[Eric]

I'm probably not going to be able to convince all or even most of the 130 or so members to leave b/c the camp boss is being greedy and pocketing most of the money.

It's also not any of your business to do so, based on an assumption you've made about alleged "greed". Again, if you're unhappy, take your money elsewhere. Personally, I've never been part of a camp that charges dues, and I don't ever plan to join one. It's not a difficult thing to get away from.

[Eric]

Also, I'm moving this to Philosophy, where it can join your other thread on the same subject from the beginning of the month.

[moonrise]

Passing the buck is a lazy way to go about fixing the issue IMHO. I say rat 'em out to the Bmorg!! Heh heh!

Once last year, I feel I did my part when a schmirky 30 something tried to rent my rental house in Tahoe and bragged about making $70k for running a small-ish dues charging semi-luxury 'theme camp". After toying with him for weeks on end I told him I didn't want to rent him my house and the reason was b/c he was profiting of TTITD...gawd it felt goooood to cut him off at the knees, and I was within my rights to discriminate for financial reasons or just for "not getting a good feeling" from him.

AAARRGGG!! Break out the pitch forks and torches!!

Spend the extra munny on art and bringing good things to the Big Burn, NOT your own personal needs, this is what I told him. He laughed, then schmirked at me and drove off. I could hear him yelling in anger around the corner...I know my burg quite well and got a great chuckle over his lousy acting when he gave himself away with the yelling in anger bit, LOL!

[BBadger]

Oh look, the failed troll has returned to try and stir up shit.

[H.G.Crosby]

yeah, leave the infiltration and sabotage to the professionals, kid.

[britzbitz]

Oh god, we've got a mathematician.
Please tell me more about how you know all the income and expenses of your camp.
Were you the treasurer?

[britzbitz]

Btw, the camp I was with this year was chafed me (nothing to do with their fiances, btw), so I found another one, mid-Burn.
Don't like where you are? You fully have the power to remove yourself from any situation that doesn't feel right.

[Dr. Pyro]

If I may just chime in. Itaintwhatitseems has taken several nasty jabs at me personally on "making a profit" at TTITD. And our books are open to all campmates. In fact, all accounting will be available at the annual State of the Village meeting in a few weeks. Admittedly our dues are much less than the $150 to $200 he quotes, but with a lot of people even $75 adds up. We try to end each year (September 1 to August 31 is our "fiscal year") with about $2000 left over. Why? Because there are on-going expenses occurring while not in the desert. Storage for the art car material, Barbies, water barrels, piano, etc. runs about $1400. Insurance for the art vehicle is $450/year since it can be driven on regular roads, not to mention registration, licensing, maintenance. We have been known to donate a modest amount for burners in need (usually no more than $50 and only once or twice a year, like when Kathleen's art vehicle Incognito was trashed in Colfax). But all of these expenses are itemized down to the penny. So dickweed, don't misconstrue "making a profit" and whine to the BMOrg when it is simple economics. But they probably never taught you real world econ while chasing after your BA in philosophy or dildography.

If you want to take over a camp, I have one in mind you're welcome to try to manage.

[britzbitz]

Oh, a complete misunderstanding of income and expenses, didn't see that one coming.

(...I deal with people complaining about "how much money our festival makes" all the time)

[ACfromSAC]

But they probably never taught you real world econ while chasing after your BA in philosophy or dildography.

Dildography.... LOL'd. That alone makes me want to pay the dues to join BDC next year.

[trilobyte]

This sounds like a textbook case of a new burner who's surprised at just how much money changes hands in the operation of a theme camp or village. Yes, a hundred or more peoples' dues add up (as do the dues from a dozen people in a small camp). But so do the expenses.

If you don't believe you or your campmates are getting a good value for your dues investment (or believe there are problems with the books), then leave the camp. Reporting the camp leader to Burning Man is not going to do anything, because Burning Man does not get involved in either the finances or the management of participant theme camps. Join a different one, or start your own. Band together with fellow campmates who feel your sense of outrage and strike off on your own. Burning Man is a do-ocracy... you think you can do a better job running a camp, well then go do it and run your own camp. If you're looking for someone to give you an established theme camp's or village's assets to manage, you're probably delusional. I have no doubts that unlike the way you come off online, you're a wonderfully charismatic leader-type and legions would follow you if given the chance, but given the nature of how Burning Man camps and villages operate (no long-term commitments, people are free to camp elsewhere if they're unhappy), it's highly unlikely there are big numbers of campmates who feel the same way you do. Even if they did, that wouldn't mean that anyone would be handing you over their property.

I'm closing up this thread, as the question posed by the thread has been answered: you don't take over a theme camp, you go off and start your own, just like everybody else. I'm also going to add that ePlaya is not the place to air your camp's dirty laundry - keep it to camp meetings, FB groups, etc.