Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

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tatonka
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by tatonka » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:43 pm

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Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by ygmir » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:47 pm

tatonka wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:43 pm
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agreed.
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Token » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:01 pm

Tatonka for GOD 2020!

Vote!

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:18 pm

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "The wind is moving."

The Master happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by tatonka » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:57 am

Image
Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:08 pm

^Love is the source of Life.

---


A young boy was sneezing repeatedly. It finally annoyed his mother so much she yelled, "Stop sneezing!"

The boy replied, "I'm not sneezing. It's sneezing me."

---

Diogenes was down at the river filling his bowls with water with common folk when a young boy walked up to the river and began scooping water into his hands and drinking the water.

Diogenes exclaimed, "Alas! Out witted by child." And threw away his bowls.
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:48 pm

"Every experience, whatever its shape or form and the nature of mind have been one so forgoing the constructs of the goal oriented schools and simply focusing upon the mind just as it is our own total presence is revealed as the nature of appearances."- Nothing @ All
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:30 pm

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Burning Compass » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:24 pm

tatonka wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:43 pm
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So if you are wise, love yourself and the worst can never come.

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:19 am

"... all outer and inner experience of Samsara and Nirvana is decisively and crucially disclosed in the view of natural perfection as an absence, as only the potency, display, and ornamentation of the natural gestalt of self-sprung awareness. All experience is assimilated to the natural disposition of self-sprung awareness by a free and open natural contemplation. Originating spontaneously in self-sprung awareness, whatever happens is caught in the bind of inherently awakened, transparent activity. And since experience is nothing other than self-sprung awareness, fruition is resolution in unitary spontaneity."- Nothing @ All

...

"They ain't gonna get that shit."- Guru (Prove him wrong ePlayans)

"Well, let's dumb it down... but they ain't gonna get this shit either."- Disciple (prove him wrong ePlayans)

...

When Buddha was in Grdhrakuta mountain he turned a flower in his fingers and held it before his listeners. Every one was silent. Only Maha-Kashapa smiled at this revelation, although he tried to control the lines of his face.

Buddha said: "I have the eye of the true teaching, the heart of Nirvana, the true aspect of non-form, and the ineffable stride of Dharma. It is not expressed by words, but especially transmitted beyond teaching. This teaching I have given to Maha-Kashapa."



Mumon's comment: Golden-faced Gautama thought he could cheat anyone. He made the good listeners as bad, and sold dog meat under the sign of mutton. And he himself thought it was wonderful. What if all the audience had laughed together? How could he have transmitted the teaching? And again, if Maha-Kashapa had not smiled, how could he have transmitted the teaching? If he says that realization can be transmitted, he is like the city slicker that cheats the country dub, and if he says it cannot be transmitted, why does he approve of Maha-Kashapa?

At the turning of a flower
His disguise was exposed.
No one in heaven or earth can surpass
Maha-Kashapa's wrinkled face.
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Burning Compass » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:23 am

I feel I need to say this because I believe it's an important lesson that I'm not sure everyone has considered.

The Good does not always triumph over the Evil.

I believe I am a very positive person and love everything about this world in its own way. The belief that "Good always triumphs over evil" is not something I find to be True at this moment. In fact I think there are a large number of people who think that is a guarantee, its not. It's a self motivational message we, as a society, tell ourselves in the hopes we can manifest it. However for us to manifest such a reality, we as a society have to get out of our comfort zones and grow. I believe that part of that growth must be accepting the Truth that "Evil can just as easily triumph over Good." It's up to us to make sure that doesn't happen. To prevent that from happening we must be completely loving and true to ourselves, no matter how much it burns.

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:35 am

Good and evil are ideas/opinions... "When some things become beautiful, others become ugly."- Lao Tzu

But good God triumphs because...

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."- Ghandi. We win the Holy War by not fighting.

Evil needs good... otherwise there's nothing to be evil (relative)to. Goodness and loving kindness don't need evil and can proliferate endlessly. If evil triumphs/conquers all, then all is evil thus it would become the norm thus becoming the right(eous) thing to do.

And oh yeah, at this point in humanity's spiritual evolution, the authorities over the nations tribes and languages is D(a)evil... but this too shall pass because Love/G(o)od is ingrained into our hearts. The majority is "good" in that most choose to Love, to be content and get along with our brothers and sisters, it's the easier more fruitful path. "Evil" trying to triumph over all is literally an infinitely futile battle. If it's a dog eat dog world, then there will be one dog left one day and that dog will starve to death.

The gift(or curse) of free will means that yes, we could choose evil which is basically suicide/death. That's illogical, we will and are choosing Life/Love as testified by our very existence... we could kill ourselves or our brothers and sisters any day we want... but what percentage of our people do that? So, to think "good" isn't truly kicking "evil's" ass is ignoring the fact that 99% of us are choosing Love with every graceful breath we take.

Metaphorically God and the Devil have a standing bet for ALL our souls... God knows the 99% are coming home, the Devil thinks he can triumph with the 1%. Good God has already forgiven the 1%, and when they meet their maker, they too will return to Heaven... D(a)evil will be left all alone in the cold dark abyss (even those who choose to go against God in the second life will eventually get tired of the empty loneliness and return home.)

It's simple logic... who's gonna choose to suffer/Samsara when Nirvana is waiting with open arms?

Thanks for participating, Burning Compass. :coffee:
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by tatonka » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:39 am

Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Burning Compass » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:48 am

Perpetual Burn wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:35 am
Good and evil are ideas/opinions... "When some things become beautiful, others become ugly."- Lao Tzu

But good God triumphs because...

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."- Ghandi. We win the Holy War by not fighting.

Evil needs good... otherwise there's nothing to be evil (relative)to. Goodness and loving kindness don't need evil and can proliferate endlessly. If evil triumphs/conquers all, then all is evil thus it would become the norm thus becoming the right(eous) thing to do.

And oh yeah, at this point in humanity's spiritual evolution, the authorities over the nations tribes and languages is D(a)evil... but this too shall pass because Love/G(o)od is ingrained into our hearts. The majority is "good" in that most choose to Love, to be content and get along with our brothers and sisters, it's the easier more fruitful path. "Evil" trying to triumph over all is literally an infinitely futile battle. If it's a dog eat dog world, then there will be one dog left one day and that dog will starve to death.

The gift(or curse) of free will means that yes, we could choose evil which is basically suicide/death. That's illogical, we will and are choosing Life/Love as testified by our very existence... we could kill ourselves or our brothers and sisters any day we want... but what percentage of our people do that? So, to think "good" isn't truly kicking "evil's" ass is ignoring the fact that 99% of us are choosing Love with every graceful breath we take.

Metaphorically God and the Devil have a standing bet for ALL our souls... God knows the 99% are coming home, the Devil thinks he can triumph with the 1%. Good God has already forgiven the 1%, and when they meet their maker, they too will return to Heaven... D(a)evil will be left all alone in the cold dark abyss (even those who choose to go against God in the second life will eventually get tired of the empty loneliness and return home.)

It's simple logic... who's gonna choose to suffer/Samsara when Nirvana is waiting with open arms?

Thanks for participating, Burning Compass. :coffee:
TLDR: Just rambling ideas, feel free to skim :)

We well thought out discourse, however I think if I further define some things maybe we can move things even further forward and develop a more verbose lexicon here.

I would also like to comment on some of the things you've said as well as they are wise but there are facets to the Truth that I think deserve consideration.

For my statements

"The Good does not always triumph over the Evil" and "Good always triumphs over Evil" let the following be true

Good = That which shows a propensity (P) to grow, heal and lead towards harmony through Love (both hot and cold love) and Truth.
- Warm Love - think - Hugs, kissing, cuddles, making love, receiving, giving
- Cold Love - think - setting healthy boundaries, calling out injustice, holding people accountable

Evil = That which shows a propensity (P) to reduce, harm, and lead away from harmony through the destruction of love and untruth.

*On second thought maybe I should change the terms to this as it may be more Truthful -
"The Harmony does not always triumph over the Corruption " and "Harmony always triumphs over Corruption"

My goal of setting these definitions is to help pivot the thinking of what Evil really is. People are human and flawed and that's beautiful. It is the action by which those flaws are used to sow disharmony, that I currently consider evil.

When viewed through this lens , my statements intention is to show that Good would include both beautiful and ugly as being True and part of the one. Thus identifying the potential of another part of the problem with existence that I don't believe many have at least attempted to consider. I also hold that I could just be high and this viewpoint my have some serious flaws I have not considered yet. However, I do believe there is value in showing the potential of viewing the system as a whole through a new light, flawed as it may be, as new Truths may still be revealed in that way. Even a broken clock is right two times a day :)

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."- Ghandi. We win the Holy War by not fighting.

I agree with Ghandi completely. It's a shame that pointing out that there is a conflict that needs to be resolved leads so many of us to immediately think in these terms though.

The truth is, "Peace is War" and how that war is waged has not been made completely apparent to a lot of people. You don't fight hate with hate, you fight hate with love. However many seem to think that means you just love the people who hate you. That is only half of the equation and it is the least important half, IMO. The more important half is Loving yourself completely, Truthfully and freely. Then from there it is much easier to see that to counteract hate you must use cold Love. Love that can hurt to use when you are someone who loves the world. I would say it is synonymous with tough love, however I have seen tough love that wasn't loving at all.

The God and the Devil are just two aspects of the whole. One can easily say that the Devil is there to show us how not to reach the light, which in its own way could be seen as as form of love. I believe there is a corruption in the system, which is a cause of the real suffering that needs to be addressed. That has been ephemeral up until today. One could also argue that we are all one God/Devil experiencing existence subjectively in the hopes that by aggregate we can heal the corruption that is keeping us out of balance.

To truly be free, you must come to terms with all of yourself, and be able to use the most harmonious aspects of yourself, for every situation you encounter. It is not until you have integrated yourself that you can then see and act clearly. Then it becomes easier to know when to use, what I would be called a relativistic, good and evil (traditional uses of terms) for each situation in life. In that system, Good and Evil can be different depending on the viewpoint of the observer.

There are also a lot of ramifications to my proposed view of the Truth that really must be considered, outside of the scope of this particular line of discussion. For example, if we are all one, and are all God experiencing the world subjectively both in Good and Evil forms, one could argue that we are in both heaven/hell/earth and they are one and the same. That would then lead to the recognition that, if that is true (which it may not be), it is our responsibility to remove the corruption, thus bringing ballance. However removing that corruption burns and we can only control it within ourselves. To do it outwardly, with integrity, requires us to burn ourselves so much that our shear presence influences every moment of our being until we reach a tipping point. If we ever reach a tipping point. If not, I believe that is one way we may reach our demise.

Sorry for the rambly nature of my post, it was kind of a stream of consciousness but I hope it got the gist over of my thoughts. Maybe when I have some time I will come back and refine some of these raw thoughts.

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:51 pm

I like your take on Love, warm and cold, and Evil... Tho the tough love can lead to confusion as it inherently creates more and more rules/Religion. Then we might come to disagreements about what's good, just or unjust/religious war. Thus gives rise to the potential of manipulation allowing "evil" to creep into a position of power which kind of falls under the "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." category. If we practice unconditional love then we are sooner to end the wars and conflicts byproduct of the holier than thou mentality.

Good and evil to me aren't defined so much by deeds but rather in a spiritual plane, intention. If your intentions are to promote harmony and love then it's "good" even if the results do not come out perfect or are considered downright wrong according to someone else's rules. If your intentions are to create pain and suffering, then that is "evil" regardless of how righteous it maybe according to someone's beliefs. So, tho I consider war an abomination, I do not consider the soldier evil if he believes his protecting his country. It's the warlords I more likely consider "evil" as they are most usually waged from greed and desire for power. On the other hand, if someone manages to steal from those warlords, tho theft generally being considered wrong, if they do good with it by sharing with the poor then it can be considered "good."

Dogmatic authority with hardest rules cannot truly understand the underlying spirit in our actions.

I disagree that War is Peace... Peace is peace. War is just about always the opposite of peaceful... That's the tough love that is not love. But yeah, we fight hate/evil with love... "Do not resist an evil man. If he asks for your jacket, give him your shirt." Ya get more bees with honey... You get more war by fighting.

D(a)evil is God's tool... The tough love that by virtue (or lack thereof) of free will is a spiritual school for our souls. Without allowing tough love, we would not be able to truly understand God's love and how blessed we are to be forgiven for our "sins/evil." And the more confidence we grow in our goodness, the more graceful our lives and the less and less power "evil" has over us and we overcome fear, hate and judgment as they are holding us back from Nirvana/Heaven which is a state of mind we are free to access any moment.

The tipping point of our spiritual reveleation is what we consider "death" which is impossible as we are inherently one with the eternal God/Universe that which cannot be created or destroyed. We've got all of eternity to choose Love, light and happiness... Thus it only seems logical that Harmony and Goodness will infalibly triumph over "evil."

Good stuff, Burning Compass. God speed and Burn bright. :mrgreen:
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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:09 pm

We move for all mankind, a million miles from everything we've ever known
And we're on their hearts and minds, a million heads are bowed to bring us safely home
Hemmed in by emptiness, a million ways that everything could be undone
This hollow in my chest is filled with reasons not to sing but I found one, I know

We are not alone, we feel an unseen love
We are sons and heirs of grace
We are children of a light that never dims
A love that never dies, keep your chin up child
And wipe the tears from your eyes

In sleep we saw ourselves, a million years
We had been waiting there it seems
While someone weaves a spell, a million stars look on in witness to our dreams

We feel an unseen love
We are children of light
Stand ready and tall, reflect the light

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by tatonka » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:53 pm

Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

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Re: Prostelytize Here and Only Here.

Post by Perpetual Burn » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:04 pm

Was just on a metal binge... These new Vikings need an anthem...

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