2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and getting to/from the event - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues.
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unjonharley
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:09 pm

SO ! You experienced the entrance and exit of Burning Man, and didn't like it ?? .. So much, that your have to grip about it .. Now you know how bad the traffic is .. Instead of wasting broad band here .. Make up your mind, to never darken the entrance of Burning Man again .. Stay home .. That will lessen your self centered stress ..
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lucky420
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by lucky420 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:28 pm

Left camp on Monday (usually stay til tues) at about 9:30 am. Camp to driveway (Reno) 4 hours. Not bad, not bad at all :coffee:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by TT120 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:52 pm

Ratty wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:34 am
Does anyone know why the rest stops were closed? I shudder to think it was because the burners are so messy. Rest stops are NOT a trash dump.
They were closed due to the fires in that area. Several off-ramps along there were closed as well.
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by TT120 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:00 pm

I left Tuesday about 1:30pm and only had a 30 min wait to hit pavement. Everything was smooth through Gerlach and then we hit the backup caused by the fire on 447. That took about 3 hours to get through and when we finally got to the scene of the fire, it had been caused by an RV that had lost it's passenger side rear tire set. The RV had skidded along the pavement and then onto the shoulder causing sparks which lit the area on fire. The rear wheel set (dualie) was about 100 yards down the road. The fire was out by the time we got there except for a few hotspots. It was smooth sailing after that and got to Reno around 6:00pm.
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Canoe
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Canoe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:14 pm

bradtem wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:28 am
... This sadly means that even with these great charts, you can't really predict a few days in advance when to leave. There are some better times (though most of them are in the dark and more dangerous with sleepy people) but almost any time might end up being much longer than expected, even if on the whole it's a smarter choice.
Since they nailed the pulsing and avoid congesting 447 to a crawl, not so much anymore. Excepting shit happening, the super long waits are gone. Use BMIR and the Gate radio to keep an eye on any shit happening, in addition to keeping an eye on the weather for dumping rain on the playa or its exit. Monday 4am onward did great in 2017, 2016 was pretty good until they had to halt exiting. It was going similar to 2017 in 2018 until some wind, then "incidents" on 447 needed to be cleared and exit had a short closure. Even so, recovery from that was very quick.

However, where you're going matters. If it's just to Reno, not so much a problem. But if you're going I-80 or Hwy 50 to California, you're screwed if you're leaving Reno for either after 8am on Monday, due to the huge influx of traffic from the Lake Tahoe area, until that clears out later in the day. That's not reflected in the charts, but it is in the threads.
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maladroit
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by maladroit » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:38 pm

I think the biggest factor in easy Exodus, by far over anything else, is that from our spot in open camping at 5:30 and L we could see there was always a continuous stream of people leaving Burning Man starting on Thursday.

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gbus
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by gbus » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:43 pm

Entrance -

Got a bit too excited and left Fernley Walmart car park at about 7pm on the Saturday. Road was steady going all the way through Gerlach and didn't stop until I got to the back of a smallish queue at the gate. Got to the front of the gate at 11pm and was put into D lot. Stayed in D lot until about 2am. Head down in my bed at camp at about 3am.

Exodus -

Left camp at 8:45am Sunday after Man burn. Steady flow off the playa, but road to Gerlach was nose to tail and mostly under 10mph when moving. As soon as Gerlach was past the road was clear. Got to Fernley at noon.

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bradtem
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by bradtem » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:47 pm

I have recommended to Exodus that they should simply put out a request that people run a GPS logger app on their phone during exodus, which would give a complete track of speeds, locations and times for the thousands of burners who would do so. There would then be no speculation on what exit times are at various times for any stretch you want to define, and where bottlenecks are.

If you wanted to get fancier, traffic measurement tubes are relatively inexpensive to rent and measure the time, size and speed of every car that goes past them.

However, so far, I have not seen any action on this. In theory, it could even be done with google location history for past burns, but location history often doesn't record if you don't have cell signal. I am curious, if those of you who were in exodus go to https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb and go to your exodus day (any year) does it show a relatively complete track, or is it broken with many long segments indicating missing points?
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Canoe » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:07 pm

bradtem wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:47 pm
I have recommended to Exodus that ...
You're assuming:
  • That they don't already have that, equivalent or similar data/information.
  • That they want others to have the same.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Meat Hunter » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:52 pm

Bradtem,

You are assuming that everyone wants to participate in such a project, that everyone had GPS on their smart phone and believe it or not, not every one has or even wants to have a smart phone.

Good try. But, no cigar for you this time.
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by bradtem » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:32 am

I must say I am baffled that anybody would think I was assuming any of those things. This has been a topic of discussion for many years, going back to the prior decade and they had not done it in the past. It's been a couple of years since the last discussions so they certainly could have done some things since then, and of course not shared them with me.

As for the other matter I am confused why one would imagine everybody would participate, since of course many people (though it's a dwindling number) don't have smart phones or simply would not be inclined to participate. So why would I assume that they would? One would get a great deal of data from tiny participation. In fact, having just one person participate per hour would give more data than shown in already very nice charts above, and it would be considerably more accurate. (BMIR reports an hourly estimate of the wait, while tracklogs would reveal what the exact journey times actually were, and on all the interesting segments.)

As for whether Exodus might not want "others" to have the data, I suppose that's possible, but in any event the data I am talking about would come from burners, so it would not be Exodus' data. If they put out some pneumatic tubes that would be their data, in a sense. Do you know that they have in fact collected and are keeping undisclosed such data?

For now I am just curious as to whether it's easy to extract. Google does not record your tracklog when you are not in data service range. In the past, cell service has not been present, but in the last few years that has changed, at leave for those on some carriers. My carrier does not roam to BRC or much of 447 so Google did not record my tracklogs, and I am curious if others find that theirs are present or not present for the most recent years. (I am not requesting anybody upload their tracklog.) If you go to the URL above, it's easy to check for the last few years. It may only be for Verizon or AT&T customers, or maybe for no network at all.

Of course, if you deliberately run a GPS logger app, that doesn't need cell service but you have to decide to do that. Most users of Google Maps -- which is a lot of people -- are logging by default to Google. (Fortunately you can tell Google to delete the data if you wish. There are actually some fairly complex procedures inside Google that I worked with there to assure they do that. However, as some recent press revealed, there are still a few apps that grab your location even then, at Google and elsewhere. It's tough to stay untracked in this world.)
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Canoe
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Canoe » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:38 am

Perhaps you should look at what data they've said they're collecting, and compare that to the data they've released in the past and are no longer releasing. Like drive times to/from Wadsworth. Maybe they're no longer collecting it (possible, but not likely). But they sure aren't releasing it anymore.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by bradtem » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:52 am

I've never seen them release much at all. You track this pretty closely, I would appreciate your knowledge on what you have seen get reported. By PM if you prefer. But last chat I had, they had minimal data. It's almost entirely a volunteer effort over there, and it's hard to get volunteers on the day when everybody is itching to get home.

But the first step to progress is usually data. I go to traffic research conferences frequently and there's a lot of data and stuff out there in the real world, and even so progress is hard. I must admit I'm baffled at how a city of 100,000 could be handled but I know it's being worked on.

So does your google log show your trip out in high-detail, minimal detail or not at all?
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Canoe » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:32 am

Canoe wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:38 am
... Like drive times to/from Wadsworth...
Take a look at last years chart. Tracking outgoing, and incoming, and with times to/from Wadsworth, so those looking to leave would have an indication of the entire drive to/from Gate through Wadsworth.
.
2017 Exodus Times from Burning Man Traffic - to Tuesday 9 pm.png
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by unjonharley » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:38 am

It is super easy .. Get into your F' ing car and drive the F. out of Burning Man .. That will save a lot of wear on your stress ..
Stats, are so yesterday , (dead and gone) ..
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Luigi » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:11 am

We left Friday before the man burn, it was cake. They scanned our vp at the gate, as there were burners waiting to get in. Having gone in a week early to help with an art build, leaving early was easy. Missed the weekend warriors, the big burns and seeing all the trash/bikes abandoned on playa was ok.
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Ratty » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:55 am

I agree with UnJon. Why waste time trying to figure out the traffic pattern? The entrance and Exodus are part of the experience. Are you attempting to 'clean up and expedite ' your burn?
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Meat Hunter » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:46 am

What unjon & Miss Ratty said....
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by bradtem » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:23 am

Based on conversations with lots of burners, and lots of posts here over the years, I have to say I am doubtful the idea that exodus is a desired "part of your burn experience" is a popular one. In fact there are those who count it as a major factor towards not going.

There is another completely practical aspect of it. The ability to drain the city is one of the constraints on city size. That's one reason vehicle passes were put in place, to help reduce load at exodus and opening gate. And the Org has put quite a bit of effort into seeing how they might improve the throughput. In the end there is a limit on the capacity of 447 from Gerlach to Nixon, but I don't believe that's where the chokepoint is at present -- it's in areas like the turn onto 34, Gerlach, and Empire Store sometimes. (The turn on to 34 can be easily improved but it is felt that to do so would just quickly shift the problem to 34 through Gerlach, or so I have been told.) The traffic jams cause frustration, and that leads to less safe driving when it opens up as well, as people hope to catch up on time lost, or find themselves more sleepy. (Pulse helps that a bit because all but one of the people in the car can elect to sleep, if they can sleep in their vehicle.)

But it all starts with data. So I remain curious if anybody who has Verizon or AT&T finds that Google recorded a tracklog or not. If not, getting data from that is a moot question. A visit to google.com/locationhistory will tell you.
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Ratty » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:41 am

As a side note, you mention Empire store. I always stop there on the way out for coffee. This year it cost $4. I'm sorry but that is a bit too much for me. I'm all for supporting the local economy but....
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by bradtem » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:44 pm

I remember years when there could be quite a backup, caused by people pulling off and on, though mostly for gasoline. BMOrg started reminding people in the survival guide to tank up before going to the playa so you would not need to do so on the way out, but I presume in order to keep good relations (especially when Empire was a town) they never wanted to go so far as to ask people to not stop at the store, or the various Gerlach distractions. There is some irony if these small things are the chokepoint. I've used the carwash but fortunately that has its own road and path to re-entry.

Of course, a lot of us would probably be happy if the city was not allowed to grow more. The org has talked of 100,000 and that would make it a different event (yet again) and in a way many would not be thrilled about. The extra money of 30,000 tickets could pay for a lot, even chipseal of Trego road from the springs to 447 and a superior railway crossing -- but it can't widen 447 all the way to Nixon.
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Token
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Token » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:51 pm

bradtem wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:23 am
In fact there are those who count it as a major factor towards not going.
Oh, cmmon, if that’s the deal breaker, good riddance.

No way after winning the ticket sale lottery do I sit back and wonder if exodus traffic will sand up my asscrack.

That’s just silly.

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Ratty
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by Ratty » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:05 pm

Plus I leave on Tuesday after the event. There is no traffic to speak of.
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Re: 2018 Exodus / Traffic, stories

Post by maladroit » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:40 pm

The chance of being first in a pulse is worth it. You get to rummage around in your bins and dig out snacks to share, and then you get to be first off the line (with much buildup and fanfare) in a snail race.

We had a pair of motorcyclists believe they could split lanes THROUGH the pulse. The Rangers followed and it was a slow chase while the guy next to me cheered on the bikers "come on guys, you know you can get away" but ultimately they were dragged back to our pulse line.

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