Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed May 05, 2004 2:35 am

So what's the plan on Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC?

sweet · Post by **sweet** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:16 am

hey stuart,

just joined e-playa, and who was the first person i saw on the list?
sweet stuart, i love camp hi!!

well, this is an interesting conversation, and as an acoustic fan, i would have to say that if you want to sleep at burning man, go to the back of the city.

i don't know how to describe a rave camp at burning man, because every camp is so diverse, no matter what music there playing, it would only be considered a rave camp, if there were teenagers?

perplexed pea

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:11 am

sweet wrote: well, this is an interesting conversation, and as an acoustic fan, i would have to say that if you want to sleep at burning man, go to the back of the city.

And I would retort that if you wanted to take X and got to Raves- stay in the city. Burning Man started out being about art. And the folks running Burning Man have continually increased sound rules since folks like you can't be trusted to respect your neighbors. PLUR buddy.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed May 19, 2004 2:14 pm

Ease up there Rob. Sweet Pea is a musician an accoustic nature. Also, if you read into your statement

stay in the city. Burning Man started out being about art

it's pretty easy to see that you find the idea of electronic music and art to be mutually exclusive. I will say it again, this is an argument that is not best served by any aesthetic bias.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu May 20, 2004 12:39 am

stuart wrote:Ease up there Rob. Sweet Pea is a musician an accoustic nature. Also, if you read into your statement
stay in the city. Burning Man started out being about art
it's pretty easy to see that you find the idea of electronic music and art to be mutually exclusive. I will say it again, this is an argument that is not best served by any aesthetic bias.

My bad. I just removed two scathing posts (not at you Stuart) before I realized pea was saying 'to the back of the city' and not 'back to the city'. I got so used to seeing this sentiment on the old Eplaya, that I misread the post.

Anyone that creates new music is an artist. But not all artists are electronic music creators. Give those others a chance to sleep so that they can create their art. The current setup of volume limits, noise curfews, and 24/7 sound camps at the end sounds like a good compromise to me. That gives those that want to party all night to techno a place to be, and allows those not interested a chance to rest and spend the day creating 'art'. Meaning, of course, what is traditionally refered to as art- though usually more interactive.

That's where I will be this year. The farthest away from the esplanade and the noisy ends as I can get. No theme camp obviously (first year for that- not including my very first year), earplugs and heavy medication. If I still can't sleep- well- I'm sure there is a number of you out there saying 'good riddens'. Six years of meth abuse as a youngin' has made me cherish my sleep. I get paranoid, psychotic, and violent without it. Not a good thing for me at all.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu May 20, 2004 10:52 am

good deal.

I hope you have a rewarding trip this year and if not I hope you find happiness in your decision not to return.

I was at the outer ring road and 7:30 a few years ago and it was ULTRA quiet. Art cars never got within 4 blocks of us. Wasn't what I was looking for but I sure did sleep, with earplugs and an eyemask of course, very soundly.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu May 20, 2004 10:58 am

Hey RtheW:
If you're one of those who loves your peace and quiet, you can always join us in Hushville. Then you don't have to camp in BFE in order to be able to sleep when you want to.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 29, 2004 12:57 am

I've been attending this fucking, camping, trip since '96. The event was about fifteen miles north of the present location, in a much wider stretch of the playa. The rave camps -- note the plural -- that year were about four miles north of the main camp, and the reverb I felt from the south was much louder and deeper than I remember from any event since then. Like a fucking earthquake. Like God teabagging a volcano. There were only four main systems going in the rave camps, as I recall, and they were some distance apart. I guess if you focus acoustic waves across a wide open space... hey, if they'd sent those guys into Iraq w/PsyOps, we could have saved billions, minus the cost of laundering their shorts. There's really no comparison with the present state of amplified art at the event. None.

After '96, when the ravers were reeled back in to the main camp, the situation was entirely different, changing to a cacophony of sound from a proliferation of amped camps -- the big rave camps, poser rave camps, rave camps consisting of one guy and a van, dispersed sound stage camps, disco camps, etc. etc. -- all pointing their speaker stacks in whatever direction would have the most desirable local effect. The relative placement of those camp didn't matter a damn bit -- when there was a "loud" side of BRC, the amped camps still tended to orient their stacks, on average, toward the center, creating a horrible mish-mash of sound that doubly hacked off your average ticket-holder because the ravers were not only responsible for most of the noise, they were four miles closer, right next door, drooling and stumbling into the camps of more staid and (allegedly) acoustic-loving Burning Man Puritans, cranking up their systems to catch one last peak of synthetic euphoria while the bloody rosy aural fingers of DAWN DAWN DAWN DAWN skipped and thumped over ten thousand heads tucked tighter and tighter under inadequate summer sleeping gear.

That said -- the present policy is not so bad, given that no one apparently wants to kick the ravers out and suffer the loss of ticket sales resulting from bagging on musical styles already twenty years stale. The theme camp people became more proactive about preventing acoustic conflicts, zoning the noise at the attenuated limits of the semicircle (albeit at the expense of quiet camps that used to camp out at the perimeter) and getting those camps to orient their stack out toward the open playa, away from the center. As a result, the throbbing and the cacophony is nothing like it was in '96 to '98.

However...

What AG brings up in the original post is patently ridiculous on a number of counts. Acoustic music? To me, that means drum circles at best, and off-key gut-bucket hillbilly singer-songwriter parodies at worst.

The ravers, at least, came to the desert because THEY thought it was an awesome place to set up a sound system, NOT because they were the vanilla alternative recruited by Burning Man for the presumed benefit of pissed-off NIMBYs.

But please, do let us know who's clamouring to assault us with acoustic singer-songwriter campfire kitsch. And please do let us know the performance schedule, so we can coordinate our acid highs with the set list. This is about the stupidest idea I've heard in eight years.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:17 pm

Bob wrote: As a result, the throbbing and the cacophony is nothing like it was in '96 to '98.

My first year was '98, we were camped somewhere around 3:30, about 3 streets in (not sure, I was sober but wildly disoriented the entire time). My sound complaints did not arise from any electronica - there was a radio station kitty corner from us that played nothing but the kind of 70's redneck rock that makes me go fetal.

The cacophony, to a newbie, was both disconcerting and engaging. I have a cd that is the sounds of Burning Man 99', and the ambient noise is so distinctive, it brings me right back to the playa. I have to admit that part of me misses the rainbow of low-level noise, because that is one of the unique aspects that marked my first Burn.

Bitch about the electronica camps all you want, but I still hear a lot of different genres out there. Over the years I have heard cabaret jazz, opera, tejana, bluegrass, showtunes, 80's new wave, death metal, Waits-ish accordian ballads, Christmas carolers, marching bands, kazoo ensembles - all performing live, all without microphones & speakers.

While the unconscionable volume of some electronica camps makes it easy to give everyone a bad name, it might behoove us all to not shoot at the easy target, but to make the slightly larger effort of paying attention to the great variety that already exists.

In other words, why not focus your experience and your memories on what you enjoy, instead of what makes you feel righteously indignant?

Bob wrote: Acoustic music? To me, that means drum circles at best, and off-key gut-bucket hillbilly singer-songwriter parodies at worst.

"Acoustic" just means played live and non-amplified. It can be anything. See above.

P-Mobius · Post by **P-Mobius** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:52 am

i thought that last year's black rock city was well managed in terms of quiet---i camped at around 4:30--4 blocks in and it was just really chill at our site
and it was only a short trip to the 2:00 edge when all the loud music theme camps were based so i thought it was nicely balanced

for those folk music /acoustic/mellow music yearners--
as much planning as you put forth on a grass roots level
there may always be the chance that your neighbors may just like loud music out of their car regardless of whether they are official or not
you gotta diplomacize that on a neighborly level

now if you get an officially established acoustic zone sanctioned by the planners of BRC, great

but heres the catch--for maximum audience effect it would be ideal to be in a place that has lots of traffic so folks can stumble upon your stage--have a healthy audience for your acoustic art---im all in favor of

but by being in a high trafficed zone you are inevitably gonna have more noise, cars, bikes, improv, mobile sound systems passing by, interfering with youracoustic sound

seems like an ideal spot for an all acoustic stage would be on the middle or outer orbit of something a few blocks from center camp
thing is--then you may not get enough visitors

i know thats not specific enough

but what this thread is about really is ZONING--and alot of thought goes into the best way to zone BRC and how that effects the character of the event
there will probably always be places where a site is imagined one way and ends up being totally different

for me ---i tend to fall on the "MORE CHAOS IS GOOD" side of things in BRC---when it comes to sound at bman---cacophony is ok in a big part of the city--not all the time in all places, but mostly---

the garbled in a fishbowl underwateresque noise which permeated my eardrums back in 1998-1999 was pretty absent in 2003.
i remember sitting with my friend in his camp somewhere around 3oclock and it was mid afternoon and we looked at each other and wondered----
wheres all the sound?

its so quiet here--we had to fish for sound rather than swim in it--which made us both feel like something was lost.

--in fact chaos i consider one of BMANS primary attributes.....and the chaos factor gets less and less each year---

theres a lot of shiva (destroyer energy) at burningman--its not neccesarly a body healing, comfortable, wholesome vibe---its kinda dark--and
thats a big part of what makes it different from other festivals

so the loud camps have a key element in my bman world-not necessarily to sleep in, but to easily visit or be influenced by at some distance--so i stay close enough thats its not a stretch to get there and far enough away that i can have my peace....
it is a city right?

and i stayed in a tent and i slept fine this year

part of it was planning
part was by chance
if i did the same thing this year--it could be totally different

i think theres a place for what you are wishing for with an acoustic camp
and i encourage it, even stay awhile to chill out and be mellow
relax
---it even if its not my main event thang

but be aware that you may have trouble balancing the need for a quality low outside sound site with one thats gets a decent amount of visitation.

keep that in mind

best of luck
---

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:45 am

if i did the same thing this year--it could be totally different

as contradictory as that sounds truer words could not be spoken. I think that contradiction needs to be explored.

Foot traffic:Esplanade. Pure and simple. The Esplanade also happens to be the shortest of the ring roads. Pricey real estate. I think the layout of the city is a work of art. I love looking at those skydiver photos. There's one on my wall at work. Still, perhaps a new work of art is in order. One that takes into account the org's new concerns and desires.

Post by **actiongrl** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:00 pm

Indeed, I don't remember saying that I wanted to discourage any kinds of music (ie., electronic) at the event. Nor am I saying amplified music is bad -- if ever you can't find me on the playa, come find where the Plug 4 DJ's are spinning that old school stuff.

What I mean to say is that if enough people were interested, a village could be created that brought together several groups who wanted to build performance stages for music, and it could be zoned to maximum effect for the listener and the musician. I wanted to hear what people's thoughts were, and how much interest there was in such a notion. If it's a stupid idea...I can live with that.

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:47 pm

I don't think it is a stupid idea at all Actiongirl. An acoustic VILLAGE is a great idea.

Peace

VerbenaMaya · Post by **VerbenaMaya** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:01 am

If someone were willing to put forth the effort & energy in putting together an acoustic camp/village, etc. they might could maybe put out a call out for donations of instruments & equipment, some variety perhaps collected at local events, brought out to the playa and cared for. Folks could have stuff to play if they didnt bring an instrument or were merely too worried to bring their beloved prized possesions. Especially helpful if you had people involved who were a little knowledgable in the repair & tune department, not sure if there are ways to make them less prone to playa problems. Coordinators could set up different hours for different styles/genres and some free style jam time, encourage exhibitions/ competitions, etc. non-traditional mixes would be especially interesting. You would need some people passionate enough, who aren't already burdened with responsibilities to make the idea their baby, promote it and see it through. I am all for the diversity bit, and yes tastes vary, one person's joy is on another's list of crap .

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:15 pm

i vote for kazoos.

everyone must have a kazoo...

why?

because i like the sound of it when i say it...

kazoo

kazoo

kazoo

theshaman · Post by **theshaman** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:08 pm

I am not going to read the whole thread here, so this is in response to Action Girl's original post.

I was one of the organizers of the Nuclear family Theme camp the last 2 years. One thing that we did last year was Porch Camp! and it will be back this year. Two covered carports dressed up like a redneck porch.

We had a lot of Nucfam people bring guitars and such. Of course tons of them also have drums (hence the Drum Enforcement Agency) but I tell you with a shady spot to sit and a couple of thow away guitars that we often just left out, acoustic just happened.

I applaud your efforts in this AG cause the vibe on the porch was always cool. We had wandering banjo players show up, totally spastic sing alongs of competely trite music that everybody knew the words too, and even Spaz from showed up from Gigsville with his keyboard. Now that was amplified but not like "boot-in-the-dryer" techno camp loud.

As far as encouraging more of it....how about a black rock arts purchase of a bunch of thrift store guitars? Elect some Acoustic Czar to wander around with a cart and find some cool shady spots in the suburbs of BRC with people hanging....then give them a guitar - if they can play you something nice and promise to play it more or pass it on.

theshaman · Post by **theshaman** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:41 pm

Looks like the Guitar give away idea went over like a turd in a punchbowl, everybody got all quiet.

I still like it, so there

Fix · Post by **Fix** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:19 am

I guess ear plugs do not work, huh?

THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN · Post by **THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:48 am

I like theshaman's idea.

Neo @Woo · Post by **Neo @Woo** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:13 am

I believe thoughtful zoning is the way to go. Center Camp has lots of great acoustic music. I have seen great music out among the art installations in past years.

One full city block on the esplanade would be great.

A dedicated acoustic stage at the 3:00 Plaza?

waltsnipe · Post by **waltsnipe** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:28 am

LOVE the idea of a dedicated acoustic stage! Maybe it ought to be nearer to Hushville, though, than large sound art.......Would the keyhole be quiet enough for it to work (even with a modest PA)? Seems like you'd have to have a PA for vocal amplification, which means power....

kikidelosfeliz · Post by **kikidelosfeliz** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:49 am

Hey, I LOVE the guitar give-away idea. Don't equate silence with lack of agreement, maybe we're still sleeping.

One of my favorite moments this year was at G-Spot, lying on their lovely water bed next to the bar with my boi, listening to my new friends seranade us with guitar, mandolin, and banjo...with the sun shining down on my face, and some nearby amplified whump-whump-whump in the background.

I guess I'm one of those rare birds who love both tribal/dance/electronica AND acoustic/trad/old tyme/celtic. I dance to the former, and stumblingly attempt to play the latter.

Dream scenario - playing banjo to beats! The banjo came from Africa after all...

P.S. Loved the Front Porch camp...(kinda Greendale?).

regynalonglank · Post by **regynalonglank** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:54 pm

well I don't play any instruments well enough so you would hang around and listen to me, but I can sing...and if you got the porch, I will come sit on it, and sing until you kick me off! I know lots of fun songs, and I can even make some up for you if you want.

Now if you want to be able to hear me you might have to mike me, unless it is pretty quiet around your porch...don't get me wrong, I can sing pretty dang loud, but amplification trumps even my loud ass.

lover of all things acoustic...so say i!

QuasiPseudo · Post by **QuasiPseudo** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:54 am

Really great question Actiongirl, I particularly like the way it was worded.

Ive been thinking of a way to answer that doesnt involve a rule that prohibits one thing in order to make another thing happen.

The one thing that keeps popping in my head in regard to acoustic at BMan is BurningBand. They epitomize playa acoustic for me. Now they all have snappy outfits and are pretty durned rehearsed for a ragtag team; these aspects may keep the self-defined 'less gifted' musicians out of their fold - but can I imagine a similar scenario for the mass of acoustic players...

Perhaps something of an acoustic parade could be in order - one scheduled event during the week where all acoustics march off from center camp down the esplenade, or better yet the back streets. Have 'conductors' call the tunes and switch control of the lead after a few songs..

I also liked the idea of an acoustic only stage somewhere; I think the primo spot for that could be near the Temple. Seems a lot of spontaneous music happens out there already, and that could be heavily encouraged with the presence of an open stage. Ive heard that David Best wont be returning next year, but I expect that burners will erect another kind of temple in his absence - it's become such an important aspect of the festival that I doubt we'll ever be without some kind of temple from now on.

fungirl · Post by **fungirl** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:02 pm

Oh Action Girl! I can only hope you are still watching this topic, as it is one close to my heart. Sadly, the music this year was less diverse that ever. Try as we might, we could NEVER escape the rave music unless we glombed onto an art car. Please tell me that you guys are still working on solving this problem.
Less diverse music will draw a less diverse crowd. It is our diversity that keeps Burning Man afloat. Hate to sound like I'm complaining, but you did ask, and I DO believe that this is a fixable problem. [color=violet][/color]

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:58 pm

One of the things that I admire in the BMorg is that they try to get maximum positive effects with a minimum of rules. Anyone who disputes that is invited to sit in on a county government meeting (just about anywhere). So kudos to ActionGrl for encouraging diversity rather than trashing some kind of music.

I truly don't know what will work, but having "magnets" for various kinds of music seems to be a useful approach. Also, improving the ability of people to find these magnets might help. Seeding the magnets with folks who like a particular genre would probably help draw more people of a like mind.

Now, I'm not in favor of music ghettos. I plan to dance to the thumpers and the funkers and the drummers. And I'm happy to sit and listen to just about anything where people are having fun making the sound.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:29 am

(like many, I didn't read the whole thread...buuuuut)...

Invite acoustic music. You've got a camp... what can YOU do to encourage acoustic music in YOUR camp? Last I heard, this is a "Do-ocracy" (or as I like to term, a "kine-ocracy") What you DO affects what Burningman IS.

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:33 am

[quote="rodentInvite acoustic music. You've got a camp... what can YOU do to encourage acoustic music in YOUR camp? Last I heard, this is a "Do-ocracy" (or as I like to term, a "kine-ocracy") What you DO affects what Burningman IS.
quote]

Amen

Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC

yeah

Porch Camp!

guess not