Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC

[Ivy]

/drift

Maybe you will be interested in the hula hooping crafting, practicing, and gathering we will be hosting. Maybe you will be interested in participating in our crystal workshops or in our yoga and meditation sessions. Maybe you will check out our stop theft booth. Maybe you will get to see belly dancers and fire spinners doing their thing

While this has little to do with the thread topic (oh, shoot me already) and I'm not trying to be (too much of) a smart ass...

Seriously, how many of these activities take place at night? It's not a criticism, just something I've been thinking about recently and your post reminded me of it.

[Rob the Wop]

[quote="Jordan 10-E]. Even if we have all these authoritarian rules you wish were in place and banned all music that was loud [/quote]

Please show me where I said that.

[Jordan 10-E]

Well many of them don't, but we look forward to being as diverse as possible whether it is day or night. As for playing music at night, we will be guilt free since we will be in a designated area for louder music and knowing that noise is being generated all over BRC, by all kinds of activities. The only reason this thread has seemed to drift is that rather than looking for ways to make more things happen (which means more noise btw) some use it as an opportunity to put forth their agenda. I don't see this issue as less of one thing to make more of the other. I see it as looking for ways to make more of the one thing that seems to be lacking and allowing the stuff already there to continue.

As for acoustic music, the most direct thing that I/We (our camp) can do is encourage such performances in our area. We tried this last year, without much success (not due to any loudness factors), but are willing to open up the opportunities again. I have always been an advocate of diverse types of musical performance and artistic expression. So I again encourage anybody that thinks they might be interested to contact me and we will see what can be arranged.

As for an area designated more specifcally for this type of music I would suggest placing such camps on the Esplanade, on one side of the city at the end, or slightly in from the ends.

Any camps that focus in this direction and are willing to do what it requires to encourage this kind of performace (and that can be a lot if it is any more than an acoustic guitar) should make posts to find performers. Those camps can set up bulletin boards in their camp with sign up sheets or provide times when anyone can get up on stage and do something. Maybe set up a website during the off season.

Obviously there are people and groups that attend Burning Man that are more into this kind of music as opposed to the electronic form, someone needs to take inititive to organize a camp, set up a stage, bring the sound, maybe a mixing board, mics, and lights. Also need to find a way for musicians to haul their equipment around. With enough hard work it could grow to be very successful. It's progress and growth will likely be a long term thing, just like any other camp, including LSSA camps. It takes a lot of dedication, money, and resources. So if loud sound is not really this issue for some of you, but rather your preference in music styles (which I suspect lies at the heart of some people's discontent) then I say stand up and make it happen. If there is not enough live performances or acoustic music on the playa it's becasue someone hasn't put the effort into it. No one can be responsible for that except those that want it most.

Contact Hair of the Dog camp, they seem successful in what they do. They could give some pointers.

I hope BRC stays as diverse as possible and can consider the needs of all. I think the way forward is to take responsibility for yourselves, set up a camp that encourages what you like most, and let the diversity flow rather than worry so much about what other people are doing. I also think it takes the recognition that not everyone will see things just the way you do and that being a city of intense activity, many of your routine activities will be altered during your stay. This requires tolerance, acceptance, and most of all planning for yourself to best fit your needs and wants. No one is a victim here. BRC is big enough for all. As long as we don't become so short sighted that we lose sight of what it is all about, freedom to express one' self.

[Ivy]

Well many of them don't, but we look forward to being as diverse as possible whether it is day or night. As for playing music at night, we will be guilt free since we will be in a designated area for louder music and knowing that noise is being generated all over BRC, by all kinds of activities.

Wasn't meant to be a dig on you or even "rave"/LSSA camps. Just been mulling in my own mind the last few weeks about the day/night differences especially at BM. I've got nothing really against LSSA/camps in general (just like people, there are some I like and some I hate), but it often seems to me that they are a majority of nighttime activities (perhaps they aren't, this just a personal observation). I myself am a moring/"daytime" person, a)becuase of genertics and my personal diurnal cycle but also b) becuase what's happening at night doesn't interest me as many of the daytime activies (such as you mention in your earlier post). I've just been wondering lately if there is a way to do some sort of crossover in the activies/times or if it's even worth it.

Now back you your regularly scheduled arguement about whatever.

[Jordan 10-E]

Well you may not be aware, but I have chatted with Kat quite a bit about having the Burning Bellies come do their thing in our camp. I am on the yahoo meassagegroup. Need to sign up for the tribe group. Last year we were supposed to be one of the starting areas for the invasion. Hopefully one day or night you all will share your talent with us. We will have a stage and a very large indoor/outdoor tent/structure that would be great for you.

[III]

>>you may not be aware

speaking of which - are you aware of how abrasive and self centered you appear in your communications?

[DVD Burner]

Jordan just sounds self assured.

Sometimes that's a good thing. I dont agree with all his phylosophies of life but at least he makes an effort in the inclusion department.


I said "makes an effort."

[Ivy]

Well you may not be aware,

I am quite aware. Kat and I email quite often about Burning bellies. The problem with BB is that it's not exactly ever what people think or expect it to be, but that's an entirely differnt matter. If you are intrested in having or hosting some sort of performance at your camp, the bst bet would be to post a notice on the yahoo group and the tribe.net site saying what you are looking for. We're not the matchmakers of belly dance, y'know.

In regards to day vs. night, while I was speaking from personal experience, I wasn't soliciting. merely mulling. Just wondering if the apparent lack of crossover activies has antyhing to do with the percieved "all rave all the time" atmosphere.

[Jordan 10-E]

What I am aware of is that I am only responding to the attacks that others have made. For some reason it is ok for them to make rude statements, generalizations, and pleas that to me look like intolerance, but if someone actually stands up and challenges them suddenly they are the one that is at fault. Funny how that works.

I can understand what you are saying about my approach, but on the other hand I can't easily sit by a watch others blame every problem in the whole world on "ravers". I knew there was this issue at Burning Man before I ever even attended. I personally believe I have given extreme consideration to both sides of the issue. I also believe I have tried to accomodate others thoughts and feelings in my actions both at Burning Man or not. I don't see a lot of solutions being offered here by you. As a matter of fact so far in this thread I am about the only person that has even put forth some ideas on the original topic. I am doing what I can to make more opportunities for musicians and performers of all types.

I assure you I am not here just to argue, I actually dislike it very much, but I seriously get tired of some people always throwing out rude comments about people that like electronic music every single opportunity they get. Sorry if your original snide comments provoke such a reaction in me. Maybe if you guys just relaxed a little and just let things flow rather than whining incessantly then we wouldn't have to be having this discussion. It's one thing to try and address an issue (and realize someone might challenge you on your point), it's another to just spew out some generalized rude statements and think that is ok. If you want to talk about being abrasive, I would could pull up plenty of statements you have made in the past that were downright vicious. You may not like what I am saying, but at least I try to see both sides.

Just stop complaining so damn much. It get's tiring. If you want more acoustic music at Burning Man (or anything else for that matter) be constructive and build it, pay for it, organize it, participate in it. It goes over a lot better than trying to dictate what everyone else is doing.

I am trying to not interfere with your good time, why don't you try the same?

[DVD Burner]

Ok guys.

Now............ you know I'm gonna say I like Jordan.


right on dude.


now back to the topic. any other suggestions besides Jordan's on what's gonna happen with the acoustic music? I'm truely intersted.

[Simply Joel]

Just stop complaining so damn much. It get's tiring. If you want more acoustic music at Burning Man (or anything else for that matter) be constructive and build it, pay for it, organize it, participate in it.

Eloquently put... now just replace "more acoustic music at Burning Man (or anything else for that matter)" with "more democracy in real life" and you get the gist of my perspective and posts....

I just had to go there.

[DVD Burner]

and hey I like Rob too.


There's gotta be a compromise.

[Jordan 10-E]

For now I am bowing out of this converstation. I've made my point and offered my solutions. If we get enough "acoustic" artists we will be happy to have an all night acoustic jam. Hope that helps encourage some diversity.

[stuart]

Eloquently put... now just replace "more acoustic music at Burning Man (or anything else for that matter)" with "more democracy in real life" and you get the gist of my perspective and posts....

sure thing joel, but this sounds rather disingenuous coming from a guy who espouses avoiding the authorities at all costs.

[Simply Joel]

Eloquently put... now just replace "more acoustic music at Burning Man (or anything else for that matter)" with "more democracy in real life" and you get the gist of my perspective and posts....

sure thing joel, but this sounds rather disingenuous coming from a guy who espouses avoiding the authorities at all costs.

i beg to differ in your assessment, yet you are entitled.

[DVD Burner]

So what's the plan on Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC?

[sweet]

hey stuart,

just joined e-playa, and who was the first person i saw on the list?
sweet stuart, i love camp hi!!

well, this is an interesting conversation, and as an acoustic fan, i would have to say that if you want to sleep at burning man, go to the back of the city.

i don't know how to describe a rave camp at burning man, because every camp is so diverse, no matter what music there playing, it would only be considered a rave camp, if there were teenagers?

perplexed pea

[Rob the Wop]

well, this is an interesting conversation, and as an acoustic fan, i would have to say that if you want to sleep at burning man, go to the back of the city.

And I would retort that if you wanted to take X and got to Raves- stay in the city. Burning Man started out being about art. And the folks running Burning Man have continually increased sound rules since folks like you can't be trusted to respect your neighbors. PLUR buddy.

[stuart]

Ease up there Rob. Sweet Pea is a musician an accoustic nature. Also, if you read into your statement

stay in the city. Burning Man started out being about art

it's pretty easy to see that you find the idea of electronic music and art to be mutually exclusive. I will say it again, this is an argument that is not best served by any aesthetic bias.

[Rob the Wop]

Ease up there Rob. Sweet Pea is a musician an accoustic nature. Also, if you read into your statement

stay in the city. Burning Man started out being about art

it's pretty easy to see that you find the idea of electronic music and art to be mutually exclusive. I will say it again, this is an argument that is not best served by any aesthetic bias.

My bad. I just removed two scathing posts (not at you Stuart) before I realized pea was saying 'to the back of the city' and not 'back to the city'. I got so used to seeing this sentiment on the old Eplaya, that I misread the post.

Anyone that creates new music is an artist. But not all artists are electronic music creators. Give those others a chance to sleep so that they can create their art. The current setup of volume limits, noise curfews, and 24/7 sound camps at the end sounds like a good compromise to me. That gives those that want to party all night to techno a place to be, and allows those not interested a chance to rest and spend the day creating 'art'. Meaning, of course, what is traditionally refered to as art- though usually more interactive.

That's where I will be this year. The farthest away from the esplanade and the noisy ends as I can get. No theme camp obviously (first year for that- not including my very first year), earplugs and heavy medication. If I still can't sleep- well- I'm sure there is a number of you out there saying 'good riddens'. Six years of meth abuse as a youngin' has made me cherish my sleep. I get paranoid, psychotic, and violent without it. Not a good thing for me at all.

[stuart]

good deal.

I hope you have a rewarding trip this year and if not I hope you find happiness in your decision not to return.

I was at the outer ring road and 7:30 a few years ago and it was ULTRA quiet. Art cars never got within 4 blocks of us. Wasn't what I was looking for but I sure did sleep, with earplugs and an eyemask of course, very soundly.

[Ranger Genius]

Hey RtheW:
If you're one of those who loves your peace and quiet, you can always join us in Hushville. Then you don't have to camp in BFE in order to be able to sleep when you want to.

[Bob]

I've been attending this fucking, camping, trip since '96. The event was about fifteen miles north of the present location, in a much wider stretch of the playa. The rave camps -- note the plural -- that year were about four miles north of the main camp, and the reverb I felt from the south was much louder and deeper than I remember from any event since then. Like a fucking earthquake. Like God teabagging a volcano. There were only four main systems going in the rave camps, as I recall, and they were some distance apart. I guess if you focus acoustic waves across a wide open space... hey, if they'd sent those guys into Iraq w/PsyOps, we could have saved billions, minus the cost of laundering their shorts. There's really no comparison with the present state of amplified art at the event. None.

After '96, when the ravers were reeled back in to the main camp, the situation was entirely different, changing to a cacophony of sound from a proliferation of amped camps -- the big rave camps, poser rave camps, rave camps consisting of one guy and a van, dispersed sound stage camps, disco camps, etc. etc. -- all pointing their speaker stacks in whatever direction would have the most desirable local effect. The relative placement of those camp didn't matter a damn bit -- when there was a "loud" side of BRC, the amped camps still tended to orient their stacks, on average, toward the center, creating a horrible mish-mash of sound that doubly hacked off your average ticket-holder because the ravers were not only responsible for most of the noise, they were four miles closer, right next door, drooling and stumbling into the camps of more staid and (allegedly) acoustic-loving Burning Man Puritans, cranking up their systems to catch one last peak of synthetic euphoria while the bloody rosy aural fingers of DAWN DAWN DAWN DAWN skipped and thumped over ten thousand heads tucked tighter and tighter under inadequate summer sleeping gear.

That said -- the present policy is not so bad, given that no one apparently wants to kick the ravers out and suffer the loss of ticket sales resulting from bagging on musical styles already twenty years stale. The theme camp people became more proactive about preventing acoustic conflicts, zoning the noise at the attenuated limits of the semicircle (albeit at the expense of quiet camps that used to camp out at the perimeter) and getting those camps to orient their stack out toward the open playa, away from the center. As a result, the throbbing and the cacophony is nothing like it was in '96 to '98.

However...

What AG brings up in the original post is patently ridiculous on a number of counts. Acoustic music? To me, that means drum circles at best, and off-key gut-bucket hillbilly singer-songwriter parodies at worst.

The ravers, at least, came to the desert because THEY thought it was an awesome place to set up a sound system, NOT because they were the vanilla alternative recruited by Burning Man for the presumed benefit of pissed-off NIMBYs.

But please, do let us know who's clamouring to assault us with acoustic singer-songwriter campfire kitsch. And please do let us know the performance schedule, so we can coordinate our acid highs with the set list. This is about the stupidest idea I've heard in eight years.

[technopatra]

As a result, the throbbing and the cacophony is nothing like it was in '96 to '98.

My first year was '98, we were camped somewhere around 3:30, about 3 streets in (not sure, I was sober but wildly disoriented the entire time). My sound complaints did not arise from any electronica - there was a radio station kitty corner from us that played nothing but the kind of 70's redneck rock that makes me go fetal.

The cacophony, to a newbie, was both disconcerting and engaging. I have a cd that is the sounds of Burning Man 99', and the ambient noise is so distinctive, it brings me right back to the playa. I have to admit that part of me misses the rainbow of low-level noise, because that is one of the unique aspects that marked my first Burn.

Bitch about the electronica camps all you want, but I still hear a lot of different genres out there. Over the years I have heard cabaret jazz, opera, tejana, bluegrass, showtunes, 80's new wave, death metal, Waits-ish accordian ballads, Christmas carolers, marching bands, kazoo ensembles - all performing live, all without microphones & speakers.

While the unconscionable volume of some electronica camps makes it easy to give everyone a bad name, it might behoove us all to not shoot at the easy target, but to make the slightly larger effort of paying attention to the great variety that already exists.

In other words, why not focus your experience and your memories on what you enjoy, instead of what makes you feel righteously indignant?

Acoustic music? To me, that means drum circles at best, and off-key gut-bucket hillbilly singer-songwriter parodies at worst.

"Acoustic" just means played live and non-amplified. It can be anything. See above.

[P-Mobius]

i thought that last year's black rock city was well managed in terms of quiet---i camped at around 4:30--4 blocks in and it was just really chill at our site
and it was only a short trip to the 2:00 edge when all the loud music theme camps were based so i thought it was nicely balanced

for those folk music /acoustic/mellow music yearners--
as much planning as you put forth on a grass roots level
there may always be the chance that your neighbors may just like loud music out of their car regardless of whether they are official or not
you gotta diplomacize that on a neighborly level

now if you get an officially established acoustic zone sanctioned by the planners of BRC, great

but heres the catch--for maximum audience effect it would be ideal to be in a place that has lots of traffic so folks can stumble upon your stage--have a healthy audience for your acoustic art---im all in favor of

but by being in a high trafficed zone you are inevitably gonna have more noise, cars, bikes, improv, mobile sound systems passing by, interfering with youracoustic sound

seems like an ideal spot for an all acoustic stage would be on the middle or outer orbit of something a few blocks from center camp
thing is--then you may not get enough visitors

i know thats not specific enough

but what this thread is about really is ZONING--and alot of thought goes into the best way to zone BRC and how that effects the character of the event
there will probably always be places where a site is imagined one way and ends up being totally different

for me ---i tend to fall on the "MORE CHAOS IS GOOD" side of things in BRC---when it comes to sound at bman---cacophony is ok in a big part of the city--not all the time in all places, but mostly---

the garbled in a fishbowl underwateresque noise which permeated my eardrums back in 1998-1999 was pretty absent in 2003.
i remember sitting with my friend in his camp somewhere around 3oclock and it was mid afternoon and we looked at each other and wondered----
wheres all the sound?

its so quiet here--we had to fish for sound rather than swim in it--which made us both feel like something was lost.

--in fact chaos i consider one of BMANS primary attributes.....and the chaos factor gets less and less each year---

theres a lot of shiva (destroyer energy) at burningman--its not neccesarly a body healing, comfortable, wholesome vibe---its kinda dark--and
thats a big part of what makes it different from other festivals

so the loud camps have a key element in my bman world-not necessarily to sleep in, but to easily visit or be influenced by at some distance--so i stay close enough thats its not a stretch to get there and far enough away that i can have my peace....
it is a city right?

and i stayed in a tent and i slept fine this year

part of it was planning
part was by chance
if i did the same thing this year--it could be totally different

i think theres a place for what you are wishing for with an acoustic camp
and i encourage it, even stay awhile to chill out and be mellow
relax
---it even if its not my main event thang

but be aware that you may have trouble balancing the need for a quality low outside sound site with one thats gets a decent amount of visitation.

keep that in mind


best of luck
---

[stuart]

if i did the same thing this year--it could be totally different

as contradictory as that sounds truer words could not be spoken. I think that contradiction needs to be explored.

Foot traffic:Esplanade. Pure and simple. The Esplanade also happens to be the shortest of the ring roads. Pricey real estate. I think the layout of the city is a work of art. I love looking at those skydiver photos. There's one on my wall at work. Still, perhaps a new work of art is in order. One that takes into account the org's new concerns and desires.

[actiongrl]

Indeed, I don't remember saying that I wanted to discourage any kinds of music (ie., electronic) at the event. Nor am I saying amplified music is bad -- if ever you can't find me on the playa, come find where the Plug 4 DJ's are spinning that old school stuff.

What I mean to say is that if enough people were interested, a village could be created that brought together several groups who wanted to build performance stages for music, and it could be zoned to maximum effect for the listener and the musician. I wanted to hear what people's thoughts were, and how much interest there was in such a notion. If it's a stupid idea...I can live with that.

[Jordan 10-E]

I don't think it is a stupid idea at all Actiongirl. An acoustic VILLAGE is a great idea.

Peace

[VerbenaMaya]

If someone were willing to put forth the effort & energy in putting together an acoustic camp/village, etc. they might could maybe put out a call out for donations of instruments & equipment, some variety perhaps collected at local events, brought out to the playa and cared for. Folks could have stuff to play if they didnt bring an instrument or were merely too worried to bring their beloved prized possesions. Especially helpful if you had people involved who were a little knowledgable in the repair & tune department, not sure if there are ways to make them less prone to playa problems. Coordinators could set up different hours for different styles/genres and some free style jam time, encourage exhibitions/ competitions, etc. non-traditional mixes would be especially interesting. You would need some people passionate enough, who aren't already burdened with responsibilities to make the idea their baby, promote it and see it through. I am all for the diversity bit, and yes tastes vary, one person's joy is on another's list of crap .

[Simply Joel]

i vote for kazoos.

everyone must have a kazoo...

why?

because i like the sound of it when i say it...

kazoo

kazoo

kazoo