Why does BMORG encourage scalping?

[chadballs]

If you tie names to tickets and prohibit transfers outside of STEP, there would no scalping.

Why wouldn't a non-burner buy a ticket when 100-200% profit is guaranteed?

[Nipple]

Hey Chad...

This is a pretty common question that gets kicked around year after year. It has to do with overhead and gifting.

I don't know that you can make the logical leap that BMORG directly encourages scalping because they don't want to tie names to tickets.

[TT120]

Keep in mind that in Nevada, where this event is hosted, scalping is legal. They are not trying to promote scalping, there just isn't that much they can do about it. If they had names on tickets, the time it takes to get through gate would increase by a LOT.

I don't think there is that much scalping going on in the first place. Sure there are some high priced tickets on a couple of the ticket sites but not as many as you would think. If the BORG gets wind of tickets being scalped, they can and will cancel those tickets and by doing that, they efectively kill the demand for scalped tickets because you don't know if you're buying a canceled ticket.

[theCryptofishist]

Larry has a press in his basement, and every year tries to make extra money by selling fakes to drug cops.

[chadballs]

If they had names on tickets, the time it takes to get through gate would increase by a LOT.

So check ID's while the car's being searched for stowaways. If it takes 10% more time, then open 10% more lanes.

I don't think there is that much scalping going on in the first place

No way to know for sure because names aren't tied to tickets. But we do know that people overbuy. If we had to know the names of the folks we were buying tickets for at the time of purchase, I wouldn't buy two along with the two my wife was buying.

don't know that you can make the logical leap that BMORG directly encourages scalping because they don't want to tie names to tickets.

BMORG is the only one with the power to do anything about it, and they do nothing.

[theCryptofishist]

BMORG is the only one with the power to do anything about it, and they do nothing.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt! Wrong! They may not do what you think is the only correct action, but the actual number of scalped tickets is tiny.
Now, do some searching in the ticket forums for 2012 and 2013 to see what has happened in the past, in order to make yourself sound less like a crank and more like someone who has educated himself and has thoughtful contributions.

[chadballs]

Brotoss, I offered solutions and all you said was nuh huh. Please... enlighten me with your self proclaimed wisdom.

[trilobyte]

They don't encourage scalping, you're either really not understanding things or you're playing the sensationalist bs thread topic game (or both).

You may care to read through the myriad of threads complaining about the way tickets are sold, or proposing various alternative ticketing solutions in the 2012 and 2013 ticketing discussions. Many dead horses were beaten, I can assure you.

In a nutshell, name on ticket only works if you do not allow name changes. This immediately fucks up gifting, as well as planning for art projects, camps, vehicles, and any other situation where an additional ticket may be needed for a participant to be named later. Then when you consider how many tickets change hands every year between time of purchase and going through the gates, it would be a catastrophe.

Once you allow name changes on tickets, you immediately open the doors to all the would-be scalping issues you had before. And it would crush both the ticketing and gate operations with tons of additional work.

If you read the terms and conditions or have followed the discussions on the boards over the last few years, you'd see that Burning Man does a pretty solid job in the scalper countermeasure department. The registration process allows us to block a pretty significant chunk of the pro scalpers and their known proxies, and the terms of sale allow Burning Man to cancel the order on any sale that it believes was purchased with the intent at selling above face value. In the last couple years, we've zapped quite a few people, feeding those tickets back into STEP (as well as adding them to our list of known scalpers).

Yes, you still see tickets listed on auction and scalper sites - and yes, those people are jerks. As has been mentioned, scalping is legal in the state of Nevada so it can be tricky to catch them all, but plenty do get caught and have orders canceled per the terms of sale. And compared to most hot ticket events, the percentage of tickets that wind up being sold for above face value for Burning Man pales in comparison to other popular festivals, concerts, and sporting events.

[unjonharley]

Don't feed the trools

[chadballs]

So basically the sacrifice of having to plan further ahead (radical self reliance) is a greater sacrifice than all those who got screwed as a result of overbuying?

BTW, overbuying mind you, is the reason tickets change hands so much.

Buy your ticket. if you end up getting a free one because you were able to scam BMORG into thinking your camp doesn't suck ass, then transfer your purchased ticket on STEP and get your $$ back.

[unjonharley]

You are only adding to how ill informed you are..

[chadballs]

I invite your corrections.

[Dr Helix]

I invite your corrections.

They will be found in similar threads for 2012-2013 as mentioned so go take a look. No one here has to do your research. You don't find the answers, then come back here and state YOUR results.

[lucky420]

So basically the sacrifice of having to plan further ahead (radical self reliance) is a greater sacrifice than all those who got screwed as a result of overbuying?

BTW, overbuying mind you, is the reason tickets change hands so much.

Buy your ticket. if you end up getting a free one because you were able to scam BMORG into thinking your camp doesn't suck ass, then transfer your purchased ticket on STEP and get your $$ back.

Free!? I must be doing it wrong

[chadballs]

That's not helpful at all. There's a million people suggesting the same shit as me, and then there's the same people like theCryptofishist responding with uh that's not a good idea.

viewtopic.php?f=326&t=57284&hilit=2013+ticket
viewtopic.php?f=326&t=63443&p=912544&hi ... et#p912544

[trilobyte]

Sensational troll sensationalizes...

I'm sorry that you don't get it, or continue to feel that Burning Man is encouraging scalping.

[chadballs]

Oh, I get it dude. Let's break it down.

Reasons why Name-tied tickets and STEP-only transfers are bad:

• Takes a lil longer to check ID's
• People have to prepare earlier
• Implementation cost of tying an account number to a ticket number on the computer
• Cannot directly gift to undecided/unprepared burners last minute
• Another step that baked-out-of-their-mind hippies will have to try to remember to get in
• Big/cool camps & projects with allocated tickets will have to set final attendance lists early - otherwise people will have to be inconvenienced with selling their expensive tickets on STEP.
• Requires radical self reliance
• Loitering in Gerlach won't work

Please add to this list.

[Eric]

Methinks that chadballs did not get a ticket, and is now trying to figure out ways to rig the system so that he, who of course deserves one, gets one.

The system is working better than it ever has since the sell-out, all those "scalpers" you see on various sites don't have a ticket any more than you do (none have shipped yet, and they won't until... July?), and they're basically hoping to get one through a third party for less than they've scammed someone so that they can make a profit. Look at the "ship date" on all those so-called tickets - almost every one promises delivery right when Gate opens or later, so that they can get a cheap ticket from a desperate seller and pass it on to a fool who paid $900 in March.

Not that you'll listen to any of this, because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of how it should be run. You are, of course, always welcome to start volunteering for the ticketing team, and show them your skill & expertise in running a major festival, and earning the cred to show why your idea is good (even though they plainly said they wouldn't go the "names on tickets" route in 2012, and explained why).

[chadballs]

I wouldn't be surprised if mine was the first ticket purchased in the main sale. I had it together, mang. 10 mins before the sale I learned through some forum that Ticketfly would be used - because of course BM neglected to announce that except in some random-ass blog somewhere. So I created my account at 11:50 and set up all my billing info etc. and stayed logged in to ticketfly. I didn't even see that spinning icon waiting room that everyone else did - prob cuz I was already logged in to ticketfly.




2012, you could buy tickets for ass-cheap in the days leading up to the event.

In 2013, the remaining ebay tickets were selling at $800 on fucking Wednesday.

And I am volunteering my expertise. Right now.

[Dr Helix]

I wouldn't be surprised if mine was the first ticket purchased in the main sale.




2012, you could buy tickets for ass-cheap in the days leading up to the event.

In 2013, the remaining ebay tickets were selling at $800 on fucking Wednesday.

And I am volunteering my expertise. Right now.

Excellent!!! So now that you have the answers, what will you do with them?

[lucky420]

any takers ???

[chadballs]

Ok I think I'm starting to get it.

This isn't a real forum. More of like an inside-joke forum where everybody just fucks with everyone else. Kinda like 4chan but not as funny or clever.

gg you win

[Dr Helix]

Ok I think I'm starting to get it.

This isn't a real forum. More of like an inside-joke forum where everybody just fucks with everyone else. Kinda like 4chan but not as funny or clever.

gg you win

Exactly. Except that in this case, the only joke is that you still don't get it. What is it that you want this forum to DO? Take up your cry to fix the "system"? That just is not going to happen. This is a place where things get kicked around by BURNERS. Not BMORG. If you really feel you have something valid to say then why not tell THEM? Or better yet, do what was proposed earlier; volunteer to work with Ticketing. That's where you might make a difference. Any rantings here about taking on the Man is usually met with a shrug of the shoulders. Not interested. So in one sense you're right. Everyone does just fuck with everyone here. And today Discoballs, it's you. Enjoy.

[Eric]

Ok I think I'm starting to get it. This isn't a real forum.

No, this is a real forum. What it isn't is the people who run the Organization. We're all just Burners, and even the Admin & us Mods are just volunteers.

And I am volunteering my expertise. Right now.

Yes, but you're volunteering it to a bunch of Burners posting on that forum discussed above, not to the Organization itself. Anyone can shout out ideas on the internets, but most actual businesses I know don't tend to take people walking in off the street & telling them how they should change something - especially when that change is something they addressed in 2012 with very clear reasoning. They pretty much answered all your points, and, while you don't have to agree with them, it's their business. While you seem to deride gifting tickets as something horribly offensive, the majority of Burners wanted that to remain - it's part of the culture (as I'm sure you know, since you've been Burning longer than most of us). They may change that in the future due to ticket scarcity, but that's up to them.

You are also trying to solve an incredibly minor problem with an incredibly difficult solution - scalping is small scale compared to the tickets sold, and as many of those scalped tickets are cancelled as the Org can find (and the entire transaction is cancelled, not just the ticket that is scalped). You don't seem to have any idea of how much work ticketing has to deal with as it is, and you've just quadrupled their workload for... what? To solve what is mostly a problem in your mind, not reality?

Yes, there are some minor scalpers, no, they are not the reason tickets are so hard to get. The fact that there are waaaaaaaay more people than available tickets is why they're hard to get.

[Nipple]

Sorry guys.

Sorry I was pleasant.

It only encourages them.

You deserved better than this.

[theCryptofishist]

Okay. I was a little quick to jump on you. You do want to help. However, the LLC has been on this for... 2.5 years, at least, since the sell out. And they've consulted a lot of people, tossed around a lot of ideas, made a mistake, and chosen the solution that they felt best fit with their values. And it is there choice. And then, well, you did sort of form your accusation in the form of a question--always a wonderful way to raise hackles.

A story. One of the most oblivious things anyone has ever said to me was during the first couple of weeks after my husband's death, when someone who had a hall we were seeking to rent for a funeral/memorial service told me that "... it's short notice."
Okay, next time I'll try and have some warning before my husband suffers a fatal accident.

By which I mean, life changes quickly, and you can't always plan well. How do you know in February that your art project is going to get placement and tickets? Or even that you'll get three tickets instead of two? Or, if Scott had died on August 1st, and I was too much in shock to go through whatever rigamarole there was two change his ticket, rather than just hand it to a friend... Well, your compassion is noted.

[GreyCoyote]

OP: You're trying to change something small, with a minimal impact, by using draconian methods.

This "need a bigger hammer" ethos generally doesn't work.

Next, you're picking an audience that 1). Doesn't care, 2). Has beat it to death already 3). Doesn't see any need to change things. I agree on all three counts. Sorry.

Third, you lack standing to even raise the issue. Nobody ever guaranteed you a ticket. The fact that some scalper MIGHT have POSSIBLY gotten YOUR ticket FAILS to rise to the level of a compelling argument. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt, but the world boils-down to the luck of the draw sometimes. Nobody ever said it was fair.

If you want to have a productive discussion, this isn't the place. Instead, I encourage you send a certified letter, return receipt requested, to Mr. Larry Harvey et al at the BMORG. The address can be found with just a little bit of radical self-reliance on the main website. If you can't manage this, then I'll spill the beans: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Wash DC works every time.

Any discussion here really isn't going to get any traction. Save your breath. Save our ears. Save our mutual sanity. Take it off-board to someone who can better help you, and is in a position to both care and act. We are not those people.

Me? I like beans. And sparkly things. And things that go "WHOOOSH!" in the night. And the pleasing round firmness at the bottom of tulips...

[BBadger]

Stay tuned for more exciting episodes of

* * * The Lone Ticketing Genius * * *

[remi]

Man.. this was entertaining.

If you really want to see how much scalping is going on.. don't look at how many tickets are available.. look at how many are being purchased.

Lets start with today. 202 tickets from 698$ to 6900$ on s#*%hub. I bet you that number gets bigger before it gets smaller, which would indicate nobody is stupid enough to pay outrageous scalper prices.

Why are you even complaining if you have a ticket. Obviously the system worked out for you. Did your mommy forget to breast feed you today? Did you just join eplaya to bitch and complain?

I think I figured it out... Chadballs is actually cryptofishist. Are you really that bored?

[trilobyte]

I think it's time to call this one. The original poster has had an opportunity to air his grievance and say his bit, people have responded, and the conversation is just going around in circles at this point.