cooling your tent or van

[keves]

Aww yis
Gonna order that right away. Then the pump and fan. Buckets obtained yesterday.
Exciting!

EDIT...
Which brings me to my second question:
http://www.harborfreight.com/solar-powe ... yYSvVFdXU4
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8556/ ... d=YnFfDVU7

Are these still the #1 recommended, FIGJAM-Approved pump & fan?
I will be using the cooler to cool a Hexayurt (or a Pentayurt if we can figure out the geometry for that...)

and EDIT #2: I see the pump is 7v. Assuming I don't want to be dependent on the solar panel (and I'll need 12v to power the fan anyway...), what would I do? Can the pump accept 12v or would I need a voltage regulator? I don't particularly like that idea as that won't be very energy-efficient.

Thanks again~

[ovvle]

Hi everyone,

I haven't read ALL 85 pages of this thread, so I'm sorry if this has been answered (I also did a general search for "swamp cooler small structure"). Anyhow, I read enough to formulate the following question:

Is the CFM needs of one's swamp cooler fan directly proportional to cubic feet measure of one's structure? In other words, can you get away with a smaller fan for a smaller structure?


I'm building both a small hexayurt inspired structure AND a matching swamp cooler (call Martha Stewart!). FIGJAM, I believe you said that you'd ideally have a fan powerful enough to exchange the air in your structure every 3 minutes or so. Given that my structure is going to be 212 cubic feet, could I get away with a fan that pushes ~71CFM?

I'm inclined to go slightly bigger to account for inefficiencies... but I probably won't go any higher than 90-100 CFM, unless y'all tell me I'm daft. I plan to have a short pipe run from cooler to structure. I also plan to sleep such that my face is near where the cooler blows. I'd prefer to not have the sound of a jet engine running near my ears.* Furthermore, won't that save a bit on water and amp hours?

Thanks!
D


*For some reason, I can sleep like a baby near a 10000000 watt soundsystem... but put me next to anything over a 25dba fan and I'll toss and turn. I dunno...

[TT120]

You could try a lower CFM fan but I think you'll find that it's not enough. Maybe you can bring both a 190 CFM and a smaller one and if the smaller one doesn't work, you can put the bigger one in. They do make some noise but honestly, the whomp whomp of the city tends to drown out the fan noise.

With the cooler outside the yurt, you wont hear it much anyway.

You could also build one of the Endless Breeze type coolers. That fan is much bigger and spins slower so it won't sound so much like a jet engine while still moving a lot af air.

[Canoe]

... Is the CFM needs of one's swamp cooler fan directly proportional to cubic feet measure of one's structure? In other words, can you get away with a smaller fan for a smaller structure?...I also plan to sleep such that my face is near where the cooler blows...

It's not just the CFM, but also the pressure. Find the complete specs of the recommended fans.

Or go all out and get the low power three-speed super quiet Endless Breeze. Turn it on high when you get back to your shelter to quickly cool things down, then run it on low once your shelter is cooled down and when you want it on while you sleep.

And the object isn't to blow cool air into your face, but to replace all of the air within the structure so you're in a cool environment.
You have noticed that your structure needs to have an air exit vent as well as the swamp cooler vented in?

From your text, it appears you may be trying to do your own swamp cooler design. Watch out for varying things that will affect its ability to do its job on playa. The three designs developed by Figjam are Playa-Tested©)'(.

[keves]

Bumpty bump!

Are these 2 still the most recommended/FIGJAM-Approved/Playa-Tested pump & fan? We will be cooling a Penta/hexayurt.
http://www.harborfreight.com/solar-powe ... yYSvVFdXU4
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8556/ ... d=YnFfDVU7


Also, I see the pump is 7v. Assuming I don't want to be dependent on the solar panel (and I'll need 12v to power the fan anyway...), what would I do? Can the pump work with 12v or would I need a voltage regulator? I don't particularly like that idea as that won't be very energy-efficient...

Thank you all

[FIGJAM]

The solar pump in only good under perfect conditions.

Do a search for 12 volt DC fountain pumps that will put out about 60 to 80 gallons an hour.

$10 to $20.

[keves]

Thanks, figjam

[ovvle]

Hi again,

Thanks for the quick response Canoe. I am indeed trying to improvise on the original design, but that's only because I'm having trouble sourcing a lot of the spec'd parts. I've decided not to mess around with the fan specs since that's one of the few things I CAN get easily. I'll bring an lower CFM fan with me to see how it works... unless I get too distracted to bother with the experiment. I'm going to go with a high powered 120/140mm fan as suggested. The endless breeze looks like a good idea, but the one I found looks too big for my setup -- unless I found the wrong one? I'll keep looking around. I'm doing the 5 gallon pail cooler.

I'm trying to stay as true to the design as possible. As mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere, I'm of the mind that it's better to master the basics that you folks have already painstakingly experimented with. However, I'm having a lot of difficulty sourcing a cooler pad where I live. I'm in Vancouver, Canada. It's humid all year round here, so swamp coolers and their associated parts are non-existent here. In fact, most people here have never heard of such a thing. I've found an online supplier in New Mexico that will ship to Canada. After inquiring about shipping costs, I found that the cost of a pad (actually, a roll that could make 3-4 coolers) jumped to over $100 CDN. Ouch! I have yet to convince friends to co-invest. Obviously this is plan A though.

I may have found an alternative. I can get Excelsior here (i.e. loose Aspen wood wool). I have no idea how much I'll need for one cooler, but I have seen many designs that use aspen wool PADS. I figure I'll need to fashion an inner and outer tubular structure to support the loose wool, possibly using wire mesh. My thinking is that it needs to form a wool "pad" seal from the bottom of the pail to the lid. Furthermore, there needs to be a bit of a space between the walls of the pail and the pad (?). Would the wire mesh alone provide enough of a space, or are we talking more like a 1/4 or an 1/8th of an inch? Wow. Am I over-thinking this or what?! Here's the link for the excelsior: http://www.uline.ca/Product/Detail/S-12 ... dyed-Aspen

Oh, and I do plan to have an exhaust vent built into the structure. Canoe, I believe I saw an earlier post in which you said it was best to have a passive vent near the top of the structure? I plan to install furnace filter material in said vent, and have a way to close it when the fan is off and not providing positive pressure. My guess is that my vent should be near equal in area to my intake? My intake from is a 5 inch diameter pipe (19.6 inches squared). Should the vent be the same size? Bigger/smaller?

I hope my over-thinking doesn't scare everyone away... I kind of have to improvise.

Thanks FIGJAM and Canoe,
D

[Canoe]

there are reports of people having issues on the playa, be it swelling or clogging, when using the Aspen
some do o.k.
good luck

[FIGJAM]

Try an upholstery supply of craft shop for this stuff.

I haven't tried it, but the material is close to what duracool pad is.

http://www.joann.com/4oz-x-48in-x-45-yd ... MgodTVcA8g

[Canoe]

I've used that stuff for other projects. It has a lot finer fibers than Dura-pad and is packed close. Not really the same thing. I'd expect that to pack up with dust within a day, and have seriously limited air flow from the start, and to try to collapse under it's own wet weight when wet.

You can always order the pads online, delivered to Reno (friend or UPS Store for $5 pickup fee), or take your chances of Lowe's in Fernly having stock. viewtopic.php?f=280&t=33842&p=898717#p898717
You do the final install of the pads into the swamp-cooler before you go to the playa and you make sure you cleanup the little pieces of blue shit you get when you cut it so you don't leave a mess against all Burners' goodwill.

[fernley1]

As of right now, Fernley Lowes has lots of the blue pads in stock.

[Serin]

to ovvie..... A distributer "Graingers " has a fan by " Dayton " the is 4" square and very quiet. different flows. Industrial use. Very efficient. Suggest 150cfm and any minor flow will cool. I pull the air over my 5 x 5gallon water jugs and work very well as they get cold at night. And a second white layer on top of shelter about 4" or so above the structure will just by the breeze will cool plenty. Good Luck

[paulthewookie]

I'm super excited!! Ordered the fan, duracool and pump I need to build myself a box cooler for my pop-up trailer this year! Can't wait for it to get here so I can start building!

Just wanted to say thanks to all the contributors of this thread. You are all awesome for putting so much excellent info in here. Now I just need to get started on a design for a table type thing to raise the cooler up to window level

[FIGJAM]

Latest stat from my pic account..........


swamp cooler
Album visits (all time): 3148844

[TT120]

Figjam, one of these days you ought to create a giant Figjam Cooler in the middle of the Playa as an art piece. You could burn it on Monday night.

[Papa Bear]

I've been looking over these designs, including what I think is the most recent recap (December 2013), and have a question about the pump for the larger unicooler (the "Mark 3"?).

The link to Figjam's favorite pump just takes me to a list of complete fountains now: https://www.greenlivingforu.com/products/fountains, but elsewhere I see a recommendation for a 60-80 GPH 12V pump. Is that GPH number just for the bucket cooler, or is that also be sufficient for the larger version?

...and out of curiosity, is the "room for a case of beer in the bottom" just something that applies during transportation, or do people actually dual-purpose these to keep it cool on-playa?

[Papa Bear]

Actually, I suppose the information that would be really useful to know is the GPH number I should be aiming for after accounting for sufficient lift?

[FIGJAM]

That 60 to 80 GPH is what I used on ALL the coolers I designed to keep things simple.

I have 2 of these that have lasted since I built the first cooler, but they were only $14 in 2010.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12VOLT-DC-SUBME ... 0684927203

I've done a couple of bucket coolers with this pump to keep the cost down, but they haven't been tested for longevity yet.

They do seem to pump plenty of water!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Brushless-D ... 0998786510

Green living changed their site, but the pump is here.

https://www.greenlivingforu.com/dc-subm ... or-battery

[Roundabout]

I've done a couple of bucket coolers with this pump to keep the cost down, but they haven't been tested for longevity yet.

They do seem to pump plenty of water!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Brushless-D ... 0998786510

I used that pump last year. I can report that it survived the 2013 playa just fine. No fails.

[Papa Bear]

Thanks for the details... and the link. At that price, it makes sense to pick up a spare just in case. Looking forward to having a cool place to retreat to this year.

Now, about that "room for a case of beer" note?

[FIGJAM]

Someone that was "on playa" for 20 days built the Box cooler (intakes on 3 sides) and stated in this thread that he didn't need to buy ice that year cause he just put his beer in the cooler.

The water temp in a running cooler is usually 50 to 58 degrees.

[unjonharley]

Cooling the van while driving.. I placed a intake tube out the window.. That fed fresh air into a drum with the cooler.. Open a window on the other side of the van.. While driving the air was forced through the cooler at a much faster rate than the fan.. This year I will redirect to air flow.. It was to cold..

So while doing TTITD I plan to add a intake fan going into the drum.. It will lighten the load on the exhaust fan..

[Papa Bear]

Hmm... very interesting. That's a good serving range for a number of different beer styles (says the homebrewer while eyeing a couple of 3-gallon corny kegs).

There just might be a way to improve on your design after all!

[FIGJAM]

Token made some to cool his brewing vats, but they worked too good and stopped the fermentation process!

[oly14]

For the Unicooler, is that .090 FRP? I will be building a unicooler for this year's burn and the 4x8 sheet of FRP at my local home improvement store seemed pretty flimsy. Granted, 4'x8' is much larger than 30"x19" but I'm curious how "solid" the box will be; I've never worked with FRP before. Also, for connecting the FRP together to make a box, did you use FRP adhesive to attach the quarter rounds to the FRP panels? Thanks.

[FIGJAM]

E-6000 then coated that with 100% silicone to be sure.

If you go BIG you may want to add some cross members for rigidity.

The fan stabilizes one side and the intake vent is usually enough for the other.

[Monkeystyle]

water pump is in the mail, and just ordered my fan. wish me luck, also, what's the best (safest) way to connect to a deep cycle marine battery? I didn't see this talked about in the post... but then there are a lot of pages in this thread.

[TT120]

I spliced longer wires to the pump and fan and then just connected them both to the battery. Works fine.

Here's how I did it......

[FIGJAM]

You could add some clips to those wires for quick connecting.